"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. "
-Thomas Jefferson

Perhaps we have changed so much, that people cannot, in fact, be trusted with teh government of themselves. And perhaps it was necessary for the powers to shift to the "angels" in the form of politicians, to govern us.

I guess since times have changed so much, history is irrelevant.

Its funny you should bring that up. Most soup kitchens and homeless shelters are run by private groups from private donations. We could easily fund a network of private clinics for those who feel a moral duty to give healthcare to all. This way they dont trample on the rights of their fellow citizens. The people involved care about the issue because they often volunteer, so there is far better work done on a problem that way, as opposed to government employees who are notoriously rude and unhelpful.

Well said, brewer.

"Most soup kitchens and homeless shelters are run by private groups from private donations."

They've been running low on food and donations for a couple of years.
Food pantries are almost empty.

When times are bad that always happens it is happening here too. People are being asked for donations but they aren't coming in because people don't have the extra themselves. This is why depending on private donations and funding doesn't work.

Sure that's a good option for those people that don't want to be asked to contribute.. let someone else do it.. but it doesn't work.

Yes, more people are needing help and less people can help. Depending on that, doesn't work.

It's been getting bad for a couple of years now.

I'd say it's been bad here a lot longer, by about 3 to 4 years. Every time I get the local shopper/paper there's requests for donations.

I wonder what would happen if donations were encouraged, and people weren't taxed 60% of their income during these hard times....

Funny thing happens when it comes to private donations as well. It would cost the federal government 4 or 5 times as much to do the same thing as a program relying on private donations. So, if we could make it work, we would potentially get more for our money...

There are always flaws to every system. But i think there are different approaches that could be made instead of a highly inefficient substitute to take the place of people getting involved...

Thats what happens when you let a national bank control your economy for the benefit of wealthy hostile foreigners. Now everyone is broke with only the government left to look to for help. That is the grand design, crush us until we submit to globalism.

The 20-50% of peoples income that is stolen by the imperial federal government would go a long way to filling the pantries back up.

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Thomas Jefferson
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

Andrew Jackson
"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations" — President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836

James Madison
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

"A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world--no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." — President Woodrow Wilson

Thats how you raise donations, you advertise, among other things.

It is not that people have a problem being asked to contribute. We are being forced to contribute by a thugocracy. The manner in which they use the money they extort makes the problem worse and destroys all hope of economic security for generations to come.

You cannot frame your argument around the situation we have. It isnt working right now because we have a fundamentally flawed economic, banking, and tax policy. If you can tax your way into funding anything you can do it privately with far less fraud, waste, abuse, corruption, and bureaucracy.

Thats sad you have been reduced to a mentality where you think nothing can be done without one giant governmental "one size fits all" solution.

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Which, of course, I didn't, but I guess it's always easier to twist someone else's argument and yell 'The British are coming! The British are coming!' than to refute what's been offered.

-Kerry O.


Yes you absolutely did! You advocate taxing people (using armed force to confiscate wealth from your neighbor) in order to give poor people food or health care. I believe it should be voluntary and there is enough caring people to raise money for any cause, and if we get rid of our marxist income tax system we empower them. You do know if we completely got rid of the income tax and just relied on excise taxes, tariffs, etc. we would have the same level of funding as we had in 1997. The government was not exactly small in 1997.


As a follow up on the food pantry deal, remember your earlier quote:

"I can honestly point to the fact that it's almost unknown for people in the United States to die of starvation."
--Kerry O

So I would say relying on private donations works fine, even in these hard times nobody is starving.