Opt out. What would be the issue here?

This program is not a forced program.

apparently not in Mass.....pay a fine for not having healthcare

You are misunderstanding what you read. I cannot help you with that.

Enrollment periods are part of insurance companies rules and regs. It would have to be covered in this bill because people get messed up during enrollment periods and end up uninsured for a year until the next enrollment period.

the majority of independents do not support this plan.

There are dems who lean right, there are independents who lean right, so what are you saying?

For the record, this move is not socialism. It's a forced Nationalizing.

This is not a move that Marx would make, on the contrary, it's one that Hitler did.

I don't understand the title of this thread....

I believe this to be true. Companies that offer healthcare plans absorb much of the cost of those plans.... a huge cost. I believe many companies will take advantage of this to drop that expense, forcing their employees to in to the government plan. So yes... I think there's a chance I will lose my healthcare. Lost my 401K match already this year. Lost my pension a few years ago. No reason that I wouldn't lose my medical too.

Fascism....oh that makes it better....

As a former business owner, I guarantee you companies will get out of providing health care ins. Cost me a fortune & was 1 of the reasons I sold my business, in 2004. This thing is a mess & show me where anyone is LEAVING this country for health care. Lots of figures to show others coming to the US to get health care.

BE REAL FOLKS.

Fascism... I say, do we not already exhibit the classic signs of fascism?

However, what Hitler did was not Fascism. It was National Socialism, which is where the term "Nazi" came from. National Socialism is kind of a reverse Communism, where all things are done in a false patriotism for the state, by the state, in benefit to the state.

As a guy who has been refused health care for inability to pay, lets dissect this a little. If you look around, you'll see hundreds, if not thousands of stories where people are setting up ways to get across the canadian border for access to health care. Those folks coming here to get healthcare are a( paying out of pocket or b( getting their healthcare for free from the ER's around the country.

Am I the only one who read the story of the man who had to use EMS something like 600 times just to get him some healthcare?

I should make myself clear, I don't support whats being put on the table. Trust me, if anyone could use some healthcare on the dime of the taxpayer, it's me. However, I see that as Government authorizing theft from one group of people to buy off another group.

Back in the day, you used to have church run places, where Dr's would donate their time and services and the poor got decent care.

What happened to the charitable spirit? Government took that away.

Government didn't take that away. The people got greedy and selfish, period.

I just don't understand WTF the health care bill is. The left side and the right side seem to just be making stuff up as they go about it. Who to believe?

Warmachine, I thinks it time for you to dumb it down for me again lol

I don't care what you call it. It's just another government run entitlement that is going to continue to add trillions to the debt.

You are basically going to have 1 person determining what is appropriate and what isn't..

If they tax employer contributions to private insurance, then you are going to be FORCED to buy into this nonsense. If you don't want it then you still have to pay anyway..

I don't know about you, but I find these 2 points anything but your CHOICE..

I don't believe that's true. I've personally seen examples of the overwhelming spirit of kindness and giving, it's not dead yet, but it's definitely on life support.

Let me elaborate this point.

Government has stepped in and stirred their fingers in healhcare so much as it is that it became almost impossible for the Church donation system to sustain that model. Some of them went the "not for profit" route, but I defy you to show me where someone in those systems are not taking home hefty paychecks and people, just like me, are being denied services because of inability to pay. Especially while others are being giving that service, because of some politically correct idea of fairness.

Government is currently seeking to lower the ceiling on the caps for charitible giving, making any chance of a return to the model of volunteerism combined with charity in the healthcare industry no longer even a viable concept.

Whats the funniest part of this entire healthcare reform? In congress there is in fact a Physician, who ran his own practice for decades, who did this volunteering of his time to take care of people. He delivered over 4,000 children in the process... yet, somehow nobody has bothered to consult Dr. Paul on what should and shouldn't be done in the healthcare industry.

As far as dumbing down the health care bill and why people are so adamant on both sides... dang, you are asking for me to dumb down an extremely long and complicated piece of power grabbing legislation.

There's alot of stuff in this bill, that frankly scares the crap out of me. I'll go through some things and bring you what I think are the important points, but that's going to take some time, because I'll have to find all of them and point them out... I like to source what I expose!

Well you already know how i feel about religious organizations anyway. I trust them even less.

There are still good people in the world, where not everything revolves around money, but not too many. But as I have said before government is only a reflection of who we are as people, they don't make us greedy and selfish, we do.

However, this increase of people making everything about money has only increased due to the destructive activities of the Government and the Federal reserve board.

I personally don't feel like Government is a reflection of the people anymore. With some small exceptions, Government has become a country club for those who support the Globalists, eugenicists and elitists.

Obama sounds like a socialist to me. "Socialism: A political ideology based on strong support for economic and social equality. Socialists traditionally envisioned a society in which major businesses were taken over by the government". (American Government and politics today 15) He's taken over GM, and taken over the banks with our tax dollars. Now he wants to run health care....this guy sucks!