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| Topic: Schools of Philosophy | |
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Edited by
MirrorMirror
on
Mon 07/27/09 12:43 PM
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I play Back Gammon -- a game where each move is determined by the roll of the dice. Over the years I've mastered the act of rolling to such an extend that I'm capable of determining the outcome --WITH THE POWER OF MY WILL! (not only my rolling, but even that of my opponent!!!) I.E. I take the RANDOMNESS out of the roll * * * (making it predermined! and Anti-probabilistic! In other words, I mentally affect the quantum events * * * I often employ the same technique in the social life, though there are much more of the possibilities to account for... But, quite often, it works! I ONLY HOPE I WON'T BREAK THE QM LAWS BEYOND REPAIRS! ! !  Wow,thats cool. I kind of know what you mean.I used to be a salesman, and I got so good at it that I was able to get (most)people to do what I wanted through force of will like that.
*** I don't think that's the same -- after all the salesmanship involves the power of persuasion (i.e.spoken words) -- I don't think you've ever convinced your customers without any words!!! 
Yes,but it got to the point that it was like I could predetermine the outcome. Like I could MAKE it happen. There were some other sales people that could do it too. We talked about it. We called it "mind over matter". It was more of an internal thing than an external thing. Like we were selling to ourselves more than the potential customer. That was the key. And when you convinced yourself it was like all the pieces would just fall into place. I actually began to feel guilty after a while. You wouldnt believe how easy it was to get people to agree to anything I said. The only way could describe it was like making "all the pieces fall into place". You could FEEL it before it even happened. Like having your mind in a certain "mode", and then you would say the right words the right way ,at the right time, and people would just do what you wanted.It was more about making yourself actually believe than it was about making the customer believe. I learned how to make myself believe anything.It was about making it happen BEFORE you ever spoke a word.
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I play Back Gammon -- a game where each move is determined by the roll of the dice. Over the years I've mastered the act of rolling to such an extend that I'm capable of determining the outcome --WITH THE POWER OF MY WILL! (not only my rolling, but even that of my opponent!!!) I.E. I take the RANDOMNESS out of the roll * * * (making it predermined! and Anti-probabilistic! In other words, I mentally affect the quantum events * * * I often employ the same technique in the social life, though there are much more of the possibilities to account for... But, quite often, it works! I ONLY HOPE I WON'T BREAK THE QM LAWS BEYOND REPAIRS! ! ! Wow,thats cool.I kind of know what you mean.I used to be a salesman, and I got so good at it that I was able to get (most)people to do what I wanted through force of will like that.
*** I don't think that's the same -- after all the salesmanship involves the power of persuasion (i.e.spoken words) -- I don't think you've ever convinced your customers without any words!!!
*** Certainly, a mental preparedness is quite inportant in the salesmanship: Like having your mind in a certain "mode"
But the key to the system remains the spoken word: [qiote] and then you would say the right words the right way ,at the right time, Although the whole process is based upon the mental aspect, the culmination is inavoidably verbal -- "Magic Words" (at the rite moment) |
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I play Back Gammon -- a game where each move is determined by the roll of the dice. Over the years I've mastered the act of rolling to such an extend that I'm capable of determining the outcome --WITH THE POWER OF MY WILL! (not only my rolling, but even that of my opponent!!!) I.E. I take the RANDOMNESS out of the roll * * * (making it predermined! and Anti-probabilistic! In other words, I mentally affect the quantum events * * * I often employ the same technique in the social life, though there are much more of the possibilities to account for... But, quite often, it works! I ONLY HOPE I WON'T BREAK THE QM LAWS BEYOND REPAIRS! ! ! Wow,thats cool.I kind of know what you mean.I used to be a salesman, and I got so good at it that I was able to get (most)people to do what I wanted through force of will like that.
*** I don't think that's the same -- after all the salesmanship involves the power of persuasion (i.e.spoken words) -- I don't think you've ever convinced your customers without any words!!!
*** Certainly, a mental preparedness is quite inportant in the salesmanship: Like having your mind in a certain "mode"
But the key to the system remains the spoken word: [qiote] and then you would say the right words the right way ,at the right time, Although the whole process is based upon the mental aspect, the culmination is inavoidably verbal -- "Magic Words" (at the rite moment) Basically what I am saying is that it is like your "rolling the dice" analogy,but the other person is the dice. You cant predetermine the dice roll with the actual dice to roll can you?
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Mon 07/27/09 01:37 PM
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Cavemen doing physics says it all. There is no point in my continuing here.
I agree with Feynman. I thought we were talking about philosophy... ohwell Nope the thread has been Hijacked . . . again. I've come to grips with randomness and indeterminism and find it to be quite appealing I can tell, you wont shut up about it.  You are applying it to everything, even things that can be determined, like everything this thread was supposed to be about.
We can determine what the various schools of philosophy are about. We can determine what people who are adherents to the various schools think about reality. Nowhere in disusing that do we need to appeal to QM, but perhaps briefly to explain why a particular adherent accepts a conclusion about reality. So to get this topic back on track hopefully!!!!!!   
Anti-Realism. In philosophy, the term anti-realism is used to describe any position involving either the denial of an objective reality of entities of a certain type or the denial that verification-transcendent statements about a type of entity are either true or false. This latter construal is sometimes expressed by saying "there is no fact of the matter as to whether or not P." Thus, we may speak of anti-realism with respect to other minds, the past, the future, universals, mathematical entities (such as natural numbers), moral categories, the material world, or even thought. The two construals are clearly distinct and often confused. For example, an "anti-realist" who denies that other minds exist (i. e., a solipsist) is quite different from an "anti-realist" who claims that there is no fact of the matter as to whether or not there are unobservable other minds (i. e., a logical behaviorist).
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I play Back Gammon -- a game where each move is determined by the roll of the dice. Over the years I've mastered the act of rolling to such an extend that I'm capable of determining the outcome --WITH THE POWER OF MY WILL! (and not only my rolling, but even that of my opponent!!!) I.E. I take the RANDOMNESS out of the roll * * * (making it predermined! and Anti-probabilistic! In other words, I mentally affect the quantum events * * * I often employ the same technique in the social life, though there are much more of the possibilities to account for... But, quite often, it works! I ONLY HOPE I WON'T BREAK THE QM LAWS BEYOND REPAIRS! ! ! Wow,thats cool.I kind of know what you mean.I used to be a salesman, and I got so good at it that I was able to get (most)people to do what I wanted through force of will like that.
*** I don't think that's the same -- after all the salesmanship involves the power of persuasion (i.e.spoken words) -- I don't think you've ever convinced your customers without any words!!!
*** Certainly, a mental preparedness is quite inportant in the salesmanship: Like having your mind in a certain "mode"
But the key to the system remains the spoken word: [qiote] and then you would say the right words the right way ,at the right time, Although the whole process is based upon the mental aspect, the culmination is inavoidably verbal -- "Magic Words" (at the rite moment) Basically what I am saying is that it is like your "rolling the dice" analogy,but the other person is the dice.
You cant predetermine the dice roll with the actual dice to roll can you?
I understand your analogy, though it's not quite the same... |
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I play Back Gammon -- a game where each move is determined by the roll of the dice. Over the years I've mastered the act of rolling to such an extend that I'm capable of determining the outcome --WITH THE POWER OF MY WILL! (and not only my rolling, but even that of my opponent!!!) I.E. I take the RANDOMNESS out of the roll * * * (making it predermined! and Anti-probabilistic! In other words, I mentally affect the quantum events * * * I often employ the same technique in the social life, though there are much more of the possibilities to account for... But, quite often, it works! I ONLY HOPE I WON'T BREAK THE QM LAWS BEYOND REPAIRS! ! ! Wow,thats cool.I kind of know what you mean.I used to be a salesman, and I got so good at it that I was able to get (most)people to do what I wanted through force of will like that.
*** I don't think that's the same -- after all the salesmanship involves the power of persuasion (i.e.spoken words) -- I don't think you've ever convinced your customers without any words!!!
*** Certainly, a mental preparedness is quite inportant in the salesmanship: Like having your mind in a certain "mode"
But the key to the system remains the spoken word: [qiote] and then you would say the right words the right way ,at the right time, Although the whole process is based upon the mental aspect, the culmination is inavoidably verbal -- "Magic Words" (at the rite moment) Basically what I am saying is that it is like your "rolling the dice" analogy,but the other person is the dice.
You cant predetermine the dice roll with the actual dice to roll can you?
I understand your analogy, though it's not quite the same... 
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My dear Billy,
let me remind you that the roll of the dice is an analogy which has everything to do with philophy -- as indicated in some of the previous posts: 1. Abra: .. even if you could find dice, you still couldn't place cause and effect on their tosses, because they aren't classical dice! They are quantum dice and are truly random throws. It's not chaotic. It's predetermined by form (like dice) but random in the outcome of every toss (like dice). ... That is how God plays dice.
2. Creative: Each die has a face of (is governed by) laws which determine the likelihood (probability) of the outcome...
3. Abra: ... Because the individual dice tosses are not 'predetermined' only probabilistic.
(To which I added my comment about predetermining the outcome...) *** I GUESS, THEY WILL BE AMUSED AT YOUR REFERRING TO THEM AS "CAVEMEN" ! ! ! * * * * * * * 
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Despite what many may choose to think, QM interpretations are philosophically based. We are at a limit in our measuring ability. The measuring instrument becomes part of the 'object' being measured, in a sense, when working with sub-atomic scale.
An interesting thing that I have recently learned regarding the most popular QM interpretation is that there is no homogenous 'Copenhagen Interpretation'. That phrase was coined by Werner Heisenberg in 1955, and was referencing Bohr's insight, which actually did not agree with his own... Other philosophers and theoretical physicists jumped on board, and away the pony rode... including Bohm.
One popular use of that interpretation involves the idea that the wave function collapse somehow is affected by the observer's personal desire or wants. There is no evidence to support that idea. In fact, science has been able to collapse the wave function without human observation. There is also much confusion regarding the notion that the wave function is a physically real thing, when in fact, it is not. It is a symbolic representation of a quantum system that has no objective reality in space and time prior to measurement. Bohr was an anti-realist, and never spoke about the collapse of the wave function. |
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FRANKLY, Creative, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU??? YOU PERSIST DISCUSSING QM!!! WHILE EARLIER THE MASTER, BUSHIDOBILLY, CLEARLY INDICATED:
Nowhere in disusing that do we need to appeal to QM, but perhaps briefly to explain why a particular adherent accepts a conclusion about reality.__________________________________
So to get this topic back on track hopefully!!!!!! Yeah, post something he knows about -- Not what You know...
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Jeremy implemented anti-realism...
Bohr was an anti-realist! 
He won't mind that, I would think. Closing out the QM and engaging the anti-realism simultaneuosly. |
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QUITE A CLEVER TRICK! ! !
... BRAVO... |
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No amount of elegant theory replaces empirical evidence.
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Now you can accept the Copenhagan interpretation of QM and recognize that quantum events truly are random. And that this is precisely what allows us to have free will.
Hmmmm.... I cannot see how that is the case, however... Sorry Jeremy... This quote is off topic, but seems like an interesting possibility for a discussion... A new topic would be in order, if anyone wants to begin one regarding the existence of 'free will' in regards to random events. |
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What does science need with free will?
Free will is something you exercise... The more you exercise it the better it gets.
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The topic of 'free will' would be better served in another thread.
Regards to the OP. |
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What does science need with free will? Free will is something you exercise... The more you exercise it the better it gets.
Just as with most of the muscles -- expecially the intimate ones! ..........................  ...............................
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Tue 07/28/09 09:32 AM
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FRANKLY, Creative, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU??? YOU PERSIST DISCUSSING QM!!! WHILE EARLIER THE MASTER, BUSHIDOBILLY, CLEARLY INDICATED: Nowhere in disusing that do we need to appeal to QM, but perhaps briefly to explain why a particular adherent accepts a conclusion about reality.__________________________________
So to get this topic back on track hopefully!!!!!! Yeah, post something he knows about -- Not what You know...
Nanotech and QM are fairly strongly welded together, pun intended. Honestly I can claim to have a better understanding of Quantum Mechanics then anyone in this forum and this may be arguable, but I can demonstrate it, but wouldn't that be a waste of time in a thread on philosophy, also wouldn't that just be an exercise in ego? (I tend to feel that is the case for other posters in regards to there "explanations" for QM) I am sure this post will be seen as that, even thought I cannot fathom a proper truthful response that would be seen otherwise so, whatever is whatever. I have no ego wrapped up in my knowledge of the equations of QM, they work so I use them that is the begging and the end of there usefulness, and my professor agrees with me about remaining objective in the face of uncertainty, which means NOT favoring any particular interpretation of QM. We can certainly talk about it, but I do not know about you, but when I spend 5-6 hrs a day doing homework with these equations for particle interactions I find it rather useless to explore on a dating forum with amateurs. No offense . . really, I find this crowd more engaging on most topics then other more science related forums I frequent, many science minded folks are more reserved with expressing there ideas, after all competition is fierce. Essentially the fact that this conversation has become off topic, and my pointing that out is not related to my knowledge regarding QM. |
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