Rays wearing xray specs

We're all just joking around here.

Ray's a perve!

lol.. I swear I remember some cartoon incorporating him when I was a kid with other super hero type people

I want to say that being open-minded about what we can or do know is a good thing, unless one becomes so open-minded that their brains fall out!

Perhaps a little too open minded?

Yup!!!

I dreamed about Ray Charles last night, and he could see just fine, ya know....

I asked him for a lull-a-bye, he said, "Honey... I dont sing no more!"...

I know this isnt nessasarily the topic.. and I certainly am not recruiting.. but in my belief system, I thought this was cool. Appreciate it or not.. there ya go. Thanks.


God vs. Science

"Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you c an cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er..yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it" And God did make everything correct?

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer.

"Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."


"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?"

There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student.

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him.'

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelled your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested.

The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain, "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal unit s because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is t o be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean." The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what hap pens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The student was Albert Einstein. Albert Einstein did write a book titled God vs. Science in 1921

I find it interesting he was a jew, and still open on the subject.

Not sure if that is an accurate Einstein quote, but interesting none the less.

I have seen this before...

I personally believe that 'good and evil' are completely man made concepts to begin with, whereas electromagnetism is a name for physical phenomenae - things that exist without us...

Einstein believed in a Spinozan 'God' which is not personally involved...

The brain aspect is a nonsensical argument...

Remove the morality standard(good and evil) and what is left of the argument?

All things are good?

The measuring rod requires both to exist for either one to have any value...

Carry the argument a little further by considering heaven...

Is there only heaven and no hell?

I could go on for EONS about the subject, but Ill spare you. I definitely believe no matter what way you language it, good, evil, good, bad, positive, negative.. pretty much the same thing.

I dont doubt Einstein argued the point, I just thought it was a cool debate.

I dont go without saying "im not sure" when Im not. Wish more people would do the same, or say "I dont know".

God in my eyes, could just possibly be "Good Orderly Direction".

Not really a god at all then is it?

Labels are ways for us to sort objects into different categories based on characteristics.


What came first the label or the characteristics?

Things within reality always fall into the later, we find certain phenomena, and we attempt to set out the defining characteristics then apply a meaningful label.

God does not seem exist within reality becuase its the previous case, we have a word, and then seek out characteristics to fit the word which really means we have no clue how this miraculous looking phenomena works.

I have offered a challenge to any and all people of faith.

Use positive definitive characteristics to define the being god.
This is called ontology vs epistemology.

If something exists and can be defined using positive characteristics then it has an ontology.

If its conceptual and does not have positive definitive characteristics, but remains as an idea, then its epistemological it has no definitive ontology.

I am willing to accept it is possible for a being that we CAN label as god to have a coherent ontology, I just have not seen any phenomena that can be used as valid evidence to support such an ontology currently, in fact all the available evidence continues to point away from a central intelligent creating being.

Like I care weather you believe in a God or not. Im confident enough in my belief, where I dont feel the need to explain it, correct anyone, or argue about it. What I believe is written in alot of different places. What a stupid debate that would be. As I said Im not recruiting, The bible is available, along with other teachings Ive learned, seriously, Im not even trying to be rude.. but you can look it up if it interests you knowing.

I posted what I did earlier because it found the debate itsself refreshing. Yawn..

It is rude to post something like that, then say I'm above debating this with you.

I dont know its a pretty good question, and I can be wordy.

It all boils down to what is god?

What does a being need to be called god?

My point was it WASNT nessasary, I have said in other posts, that it could be the universe.. or something else. I believe in callling them God which I also stated. I could call it something else, anything else, like good orderly direction, I mentiond above I call my higher power God.

Its not the wordyness.. I just think reilgion or personal higher power belief is a dead subject, and its a stupid argument.

Thats abot all u get.

I wonder how it is that one knows whatever it is that they do.

The content, in my mind - based upon this subject - matters not. It is a matter of certainty, I believe. One could say "I know this!" or "I know that!"... this and that matter not so much to the discussion at hand as the question of how they have come to this absolute?

Knowns are absolutes - for all practical intents and purposes - within ones mind which consciously and unconsciously measure experience.

A known always has determinants... things that determine it's validity or believability in one's mind. There must exist a foundation for knowns. That foundation is itself based in language and meaning, is it not?

Would it make sense for one to say, I think I know what my name is? That would be senseless statement. One knows what their name is because it is what everyone calls them by, or what their parents named them, or...