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Topic: Uh Oh... the fable crumbles
warmachine's photo
Sun 04/05/09 08:18 AM


Scientists find active ’super-thermite’ in WTC dust

Joe Byrne
Raw Story
Sunday, April 5, 2009

A team of nine scientists have unearthed startling data from dust gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on 9/11. They discovered that scattered throughout the dust samples were red and gray chips of ‘active thermitic material’, or an un-reacted pyrotechnic explosive.

Thermite is used in steel welding, fireworks shows, and hand grenades. It is the combination of a metal powder and a metal oxide which produce a reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. The ‘active thermitic material’ discovered in the World Trade Center dust was a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide, and is a form of thermite known as ‘nano-structured super-thermite’.

“These observations reminded us of nano-thermite fabricated at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and elsewhere; available papers describe this material as an intimate mixture of UFG[Ultra-fine grain] aluminum and iron oxide in nano-thermite composites to form pyrotechnics or explosives. Commercially available thermite behaves as an incendiary when ignited, but when the ingredients are ultra-fine grain and are intimately mixed, this ‘nano-thermite’ reacts very rapidly, even explosively, and is sometimes referred to as ’super-thermite’,” the report explains.

The full article in The Open Chemical Physics Journal can be found here

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM

Some of the authors of the paper have lost their jobs at universities and chemistry labs for their outspoken breakdown of what happened at the World Trade Center on 9/11. Kevin Ryan lost his job as a lab director after writing a letter to the National Institute for Standards and Technology(NIST was conducting an investigation into 9/11 at the time) challenging the common theory that burning jet fuel weakened the steel supports holding up the 110-story skyscrapers. Ryan claims that the owner of his laboratory subsidiary “was the company that certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings,” according to the South Bend Tribune. Dr. Steven E. Jones, a physicist at Brigham Young University, presented a paper in 2005 discussing alternative theories to the commonly accepted ‘jet fuel’ reasoning. In September 2006 he was placed on paid administrative leave and his paper was removed from the BYU database.

Jones has told Visibility911.com, “In short, the paper explodes the official story that ‘no evidence’ exists for explosive/pyrotechnic materials in the WTC buildings.”

Parts of the report mention other studies being conducted by the scientists that will come out soon.


beeorganic's photo
Sun 04/05/09 02:42 PM
(Playing the Devil's advocate here after reading the journal article). First, as a truly objective scientist I would have to completely disregard the sample from the Manhattan resident (and even question how he/she knew what Thermite residue looked like to begin with). Basic Thermite is a combination of aluminum and rust (type 3). (A simplistic yet viable alternative hypothesis) A plane contains an abundance of aluminum that collides with an adundance of rusty steel girders (some rust had to accumlate during construction). Add heat from the collision and burning jet fuel.

Another possibility (or question I would have). If Thermite welding techniques were used on the World Trade Center during construction. If so, shouldn't one expect to find Thermite samples, yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

I would ask you to compare all the fuels and oxidizers from the above link that make up Thermite and ask yourself "how many of those items were present in and on the plane and in or on the World Trade Center when it impacted (totally disregard any possible conspiracy by the government for the time being). I submit that if all the ingredients to make Thermite to begin with are present... given enough force (from impact), additional heat (from jet fuel), and other variables... one will find find many things.

On personal note- I too use to listened to Alex Jones (years before the Coast to Coast with George Noory days). No longer (other than for entertainment occasionally). He (Alex Jones) also claimed the passengers on the planes were "gassed/put to sleep" and the planes flown into the World Trade Center via remote control by the government... that's stretching it a bit. Everything is a conspiracy and never "things happen the way they really happened". Plenty of videos and books to sell... very few lawsuits to prove his assertions where they count.

InvictusV's photo
Sun 04/05/09 02:47 PM
http://www.guzer.com/videos/thermite_car.php


This is a video showing thermite vs a car..

warmachine's photo
Mon 04/06/09 09:21 AM

(Playing the Devil's advocate here after reading the journal article). First, as a truly objective scientist I would have to completely disregard the sample from the Manhattan resident (and even question how he/she knew what Thermite residue looked like to begin with). Basic Thermite is a combination of aluminum and rust (type 3). (A simplistic yet viable alternative hypothesis) A plane contains an abundance of aluminum that collides with an adundance of rusty steel girders (some rust had to accumlate during construction). Add heat from the collision and burning jet fuel.

Another possibility (or question I would have). If Thermite welding techniques were used on the World Trade Center during construction. If so, shouldn't one expect to find Thermite samples, yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

I would ask you to compare all the fuels and oxidizers from the above link that make up Thermite and ask yourself "how many of those items were present in and on the plane and in or on the World Trade Center when it impacted (totally disregard any possible conspiracy by the government for the time being). I submit that if all the ingredients to make Thermite to begin with are present... given enough force (from impact), additional heat (from jet fuel), and other variables... one will find find many things.

On personal note- I too use to listened to Alex Jones (years before the Coast to Coast with George Noory days). No longer (other than for entertainment occasionally). He (Alex Jones) also claimed the passengers on the planes were "gassed/put to sleep" and the planes flown into the World Trade Center via remote control by the government... that's stretching it a bit. Everything is a conspiracy and never "things happen the way they really happened". Plenty of videos and books to sell... very few lawsuits to prove his assertions where they count.



Okay, I read it too, but to quash the advocate for the pitchfork I'll dig this sucker a little deeper. First, it's not one sample from a Resident, there were samples taken from several areas in Manhattan, some as early as ten minutes after the Towers came down, which should be able to rule out contaminating elements from the cleanup and search and rescue, which took a bit to coordinate and of course, make sure nothing else was going to happen.

The paper ends with the statement, "Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material." Now how does a plane crash, coupled with some kerosene derivative jet fuel involve anything that could possibly be mistaken for NanoTech manipulation?

As for creating a Thermite reaction, you need pretty specific amounts of the Aluminum VS. the Iron Oxide. The reacting composition is 5 parts iron oxide red (rust) powder and 3 parts aluminium powder by weight. What are the odds that planes smashing into the towers could create just the exact mixtures needed for Thermite reactions? Nevermind the fact that the steel was covered with Asbestos spray coating, so the chance that steel had alot of rust on them would be small.

I can find absolutely no evidence that Thermite welding was used to build the towers.

Now, lets take a look at the names and titles of the folks who signed on to this scientific article.

This paper,this research paper was titled "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe." The lead author is Niels H. Harrit of the Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, but it was more of a coauthored piece. The nine coauthors are Niels H. Harrit, Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Denmark, Jeffrey Farrer, Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University, Steven E. Jones, S&J Scientific Co., Provo, UT, Kevin R. Ryan, 9/11 Working Group of Bloomington (Formerly of NIST), Bloomington, IN, Frank M. Legge, Logical Systems Consulting, Perth, Western Australia, Daniel Farnsworth, Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University, Gregg Roberts, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Berkeley, CA, James R. Gourley, International Center for 9/11 Studies, Dallas, TX, and Bradley R. Larsen, S&J Scientific Co., Provo, UT.

Now why would those belonging to the more prestigious Universities and the high science jobs, like Logical Systems, risk their jobs and reputations, if they weren't 100% certain of what they had in their possesion?

I don't know why you brought up Mr. Jones here, the article comes off of the "Raw Story" website, which tends to be very respected among Alternative news sources. I've never heard Mr.Jones say that the passengers were gassed, care to source that?

InvictusV's photo
Mon 04/06/09 11:20 AM
Edited by InvictusV on Mon 04/06/09 11:20 AM
My only issue with the thermite theory is that during the fires and explosions, it would have been set off and cut the columns almost immediately. A high explosive would then have to be set off in order to separate the columns that were cut. I dont think there is anyone in the demolitions field that would say thermite alone can bring down a large building.

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 04/06/09 11:42 AM
can I cheat off of someone's notes?

warmachine's photo
Tue 04/07/09 07:35 AM

My only issue with the thermite theory is that during the fires and explosions, it would have been set off and cut the columns almost immediately. A high explosive would then have to be set off in order to separate the columns that were cut. I dont think there is anyone in the demolitions field that would say thermite alone can bring down a large building.



With that I would refer you to 9/11 hero, Willie Rodriguez, who has unequivocally stated there were bombs in the buildings, he even testified to the 9/11 comission on this case and somehow his testimony was conviently left out of the "official" account.

willing2's photo
Tue 04/07/09 07:41 AM
Sometime today Glen Beck is supposed ti get with popular mechanics and discuss that 9-11 theory. Might be interesting.
It was kinda' funny how both buildings dropped straight down like it was a controlled blast

franshade's photo
Tue 04/07/09 07:52 AM

Sometime today Glen Beck is supposed ti get with popular mechanics and discuss that 9-11 theory. Might be interesting.
It was kinda' funny how both buildings dropped straight down like it was a controlled blast



thought that's how the buildings were engineered? but then again I did find it strange myself.

warmachine's photo
Tue 04/07/09 07:52 AM
Meigs is a horrible person. I gave Beck the benefit of the doubt, but when he's bringing in the very definition of "yellow" journalism to debunk stuff, I have a problem with it. Beck is acting like a Judas Goat, I'm beginning to think.

They say they debunked the fema camps thing, but go here, where Mr. Jones preemptively crushs the debunking.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-nsc-military-checkpoints-yes-glenn-beck-fema-camps-are-real.html


Now here's the important part, get out a pen and paper, write things down and research them for yourself.

If you want to get the lowdown on Meigs, you should check into the article titled "The Coup at Popular Mechanics".


Meigs is not someone I would trust to wash my laundry let alone get important information from.

InvictusV's photo
Tue 04/07/09 09:44 AM
"The newest research, according to the journal authors, shows that dust from the collapsing towers contained a "nano-thermite" material that is highly explosive."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/0,5143,705295677,00.html

This from 911truth.org. Its an article about Steven Jones.

First, let me say Im not trying to change your mind. There are plenty of unanswered questions regarding the events of 9-11.

This theory in particular, I find very hard to stomach. If someone used a basic form of thermite, the reaction would have started immediately after the planes struck the buildings. You have to estimate that atleast 20 to 30 floors would have been effected. Thermite doesn't need an open flame to be set off. A dramatic increase in temperature is enough to start the reaction. The case is made in this report that nano-thermite was used. The claim is that it is highly explosive. That ramps the level of probability that immediate detonation and collapse is almost 100%. The next problem with this theory is the astronomical amount of thermite necessary to bring down these buildings. In a normal controlled demolition the center of the structure is blown first followed by the outer columns so the outsides of the building fall inward. You dont see any of this in the videos of the collapses. If this was a controlled demolition, there would have had to be charges placed on atleast every other floor, from the ground level, to atleast the lowest points of impact. Even then there is no guarantee that the building is going to collapse straight down in the pancake fashion. If this is the case you are talking about tens of thousands of tons of thermite to bring down 3 large buildings. Im sure you would find more than a few pieces of microscopic evidence. Almost every large center column would be covered in molten steel. It would have been on just about everything left. I couldn't even begin to fathom the amount of time necessary to place all those charges, run the connections, set the detonators, and then after all of that hope the planes didnt set it all off prematurely.

To do all of this, with no one noticing, is impossible.

nogames39's photo
Tue 04/07/09 09:50 AM
There is just no way 9/11 could have happened as officially explained.

I find that to be the most laughable conspiracy theory of all.

As for Alex Jones and George Noory, I was feeling the same about them, until I realized that it is only their image as of clowns, that keeps them from sharing the fate of Aaron Russo.

InvictusV's photo
Tue 04/07/09 11:55 AM
For me, it all begins with the reluctance of a truly independent investigation. You cant put a bunch of former government clowns in a room together and expect anything but the typical nonsense you get everyday from Washington. It doesn't matter how you dress them up, they are still clowns. I think if there is a coverup, they have certainly infiltrated these "truth" organizations. You have to spread ridiculous theories in order to later label them all as nutjobs. Im not saying Steven Jones is a plant, but of all the possible explinations for controlled demolition, his theory is just too unbelieveable.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 04/07/09 12:11 PM
I know what it was!!!!:wink:

The Terrorists carried it onto the planes, and mixed it right before impact!

It was part of their plan!

Fanta46's photo
Tue 04/07/09 12:15 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 04/07/09 12:56 PM
I heard,,,,,

They also carried with them,
a biological weapon in Powder form!scared


Fanta46's photo
Tue 04/07/09 12:16 PM
laugh laugh laugh laugh

Sorry,
I could not resist!:wink: laugh

warmachine's photo
Wed 04/08/09 04:14 AM

I heard,,,,,

They also carried with them,
a biological weapon in Powder form!scared





That was an entirely different event, although also a total inside job. Levins got blamed for it and then, even though evidence was against his accusers, just decides to kill himself?

Government Assassination squads anyone?

Jess642's photo
Wed 04/08/09 04:20 AM
Whatever was the primary causative of the destruction of so much life, with the 9/11 devastation....it brings no-one back.

None of the people that have lost their lives, in the on-going debacles can be brought back.

None of the men women and children in the 9/11 horror can be brought back.


More importantly, rather than speculate, propogate, or disseminate how or what was the causative, of the Tower collapses...look at the reasons behind the destruction.

And what came next.

And what can be done differently.

warmachine's photo
Wed 04/08/09 04:30 AM

Whatever was the primary causative of the destruction of so much life, with the 9/11 devastation....it brings no-one back.

None of the people that have lost their lives, in the on-going debacles can be brought back.

None of the men women and children in the 9/11 horror can be brought back.


More importantly, rather than speculate, propogate, or disseminate how or what was the causative, of the Tower collapses...look at the reasons behind the destruction.

And what came next.

And what can be done differently.


That's the thing, those thousands of voices were silenced. An interesting thing about 9/11 is that the majority of family members want an open, independant investigation and have never seen one, they still will call for one if you listen to them.
One of the most important things about 9/11 is to point out that it was a false flag, that our government has a huge history of utilizing false flag events to push their agendas forward, because if you don't open the pandoras box of false flag information, it's only a matter of time before the next one happens.

Back to the fallen citizens, if they're voices are silent and they have yet to recieve any justice, who speaks for them, especially now, almost 10 years later?

OldBilly's photo
Wed 04/08/09 06:12 AM
Personally I think most of these conspiracy theorists are government agents used to discredit legitimate questioners of events that prove the Government’s complacency and incompetence.

It’s easy to prove the Government’s complacency and incompetence in regards to 911.

The simple fact that the most common statement from the mouths of both democrats and republicans immediately following the event went something like this: “No one could ever imagine terrorists using a commercial airliner as a weapon of mass destruction”

To believe that statement one would have to forget about the Kamikazes used by Japan during WWII. You’d also have to believe no one reads the novels of Tom Clancy, who wrote about a similar scenario in one his recent novels. I believe it was “The Sum of All Fears” (could be wrong about the title) the book was on the New York Times Best Sellers List. Does the Government also believe an International Terrorist doesn’t shop in the gift shops at airports and train stations where a large number of best sellers like Tom Clancy’s are sold?

Did anyone ever see the mainstream media try to discredit the statement “No one could ever imagine terrorists using a commercial airliner as a weapon of mass destruction”?

The complacency and incompetence by both the media and government in regards to 911 is proven through the above investigation. All the complicated conspiracy theories only serve to muck up the waters and distract from the simple facts. They discredit anyone who questions 911 and make them appear to be crackpots.

That’s my theory on why conspiracy theorists are government agents. Now excuse me while I go pick up my government check.

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