Ok, my turn. I also posted this in Mike's alternative to this topic.

Creativity offers the ability to route one's opinion or bend one's
belief. It also offers an opportunity to answer questions without which
we would not grow.

When a question presents itself and the creativity of the mind begins to
theorize, we make strides in our way of life.

If those whose religious conviction denies that this was not ordaind to
be so, then perhaps they are Amish.

I can view relgions with tolerance. I can accept faith as a personal
endeavor. I can accept beliefs that are open to the changes, to the
strides we make as questioning human beings. What I have a difficult
time with is hypocracy.

Hypocracy, to me, is knowing a truth but not disclosing it, believing in
something but only when it's convenient. Refusing to admit a possibility
because it does not fit into the paramaters that are the limitations of
ones belief. Adjusting the parameters of ones belief to fit a particular
situation, but only if it benefits the continuation of the belief.

Creativity allows us to find truth, allows us to fantasise about
possibilities. If any believe that any of the organized Christian faiths
allows for creativity, I expect you'll find hypocracy brewing there.
With the exception, of course, of the most orthodox of the Amish
community.

Yes I have a difficult time with hypocracy, this is when I try to be
humble, and sometimes rely on my own creativity.

Eveolution is a fairly new theory in the scheme of things, but how many
theories in the past, have changed the parameters, broadened the
limitations of organized religions, simply on the basis of convenience?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Ely and Abra, your intelligence in this post pushes me to learn more. I
doubt that I will ever truely understand all of the things to which you
refer, however, I remain open to the future. I will not be limited by
the dogma of any belief, not even my own. I have enjoyed this
discourse immensely. thanks!

Yeah, Christianity is much better. The belief that a cosmic Jewish
zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you
symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as
your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is
present in humanity because a rib-woman by a talking snake to eat from a
magical tree… yeah, makes perfect sense.

You should really shouldn't use the word stupid if you are it.

you're silly you know that.. we didn't come from monkeys .. that isn't
what evolution says... we have a common ancestor !

just to add someone said evolution is still a theory which is
absolutely correct becase for example in the beak of the finch based on
darwins time in the galapagos we can show that new features, or
certain features determine which survive and then like when the nuts got
bigger the smaller beaked birds started dying off and big beaked became
the prominant trait, the important thing is, we can never really prove
evolution because evolution occurs over such a dramatic period of time;
however ipersonally .. can believe in evolution over some transcendant
being speaking " let there be light, " etc and the sun comes out of no
where etc. ... and then the point being that we all have our own
opinions it is better to ask how everyone feels on it, and not judge a
theory because as you sit there and mock someone , anothe person can do
the same to you and I don't feel that , that is the reason why the forum
was made... spider like i told you yesterday you are continuously rude
to people and if you cant converse in a civil way please just don't
post.

sororitygurl4life,

If you read anything I posted past the first post, you would have found
that I believe in Evolution. You would also find that I only posted
this topic because I was being attacked for correcting someone with an
incorrect interpretation of scripture. Many people, including you, just
now, corrected me by saying that we didn't evolve from monkeys (You will
find where I posted that myself on like the third page of this thread).
My problem is that you guys have no problem attacking me for correcting
a completely incorrect interpretation of scripture, but all of you feel
you have a right to correct me. Why is it bad for me to say "Evolution
is stupid" when non-Christians call God hateful, mean, cruel and many
other insulting adjectives?

The only answer is that so many of you are flaming hypocrites, who judge
others beliefs without ever judging your own.

.. in my personal opinion which no one has to share with me i don't
believe in that form of god but if the christian god does exist then he
is cruel.. if i wanted to take the atheist stance on this god in
christianity is all powerful and all good.. so being as their is evil
and suffering in the world... either god is not all good or he is not
all powerful, either way that would disprove the christian god, you can
say we have free will... but in reality god knows every choice were
going to make.. so if he already knows how is that free will... you can
say theres no such thing as evil.. but then i would beg you to look at
the world... etc... its an interpretation spider, thats the one i take
and i b elieve im right, just as i believe you can be right to say your
opinion but i will try to argue mine, and im sorry but i dn't sit here
and read through 7 pages of thread, i read over the first one... but you
ask the 6 million who died in the holocaust if god is cruel.. or the
many who were tortured, were being starved, ask the survivors, ask the
victims of katrina, ask the innocents being killed in war.. its really
a huge topic that i know can't be addressed in once post.. but im just
saying in my mind i believe there is proof that if there is agod who is
all powerful he has to be cruel for our world and history to be as it
is.. but... my opinion

Sorority Girl wrote:

" .. in my personal opinion which no one has to share with me i don't
believe in that form of god but if the christian god does exist then he
is cruel.. if i wanted to take the atheist stance on this god in
christianity is all powerful and all good.. so being as their is evil
and suffering in the world... either god is not all good or he is not
all powerful, either way that would disprove the christian god, you can
say we have free will... but in reality god knows every choice were
going to make.. so if he already knows how is that free will... you can
say theres no such thing as evil.. but then i would beg you to look at
the world... etc"

Ah, the infamous Problem of Evil-- it's kept philosophers and Theists at
each others' throats for a millenia. To read up on it by Googling the
arguments is to see Word Lawyering at its finest.

I dunno, personally, I think that if god exists, observations seem to
imply that s/he's relatively indifferent to what happens to humans,
their being just a somewhat more interesting source of experimental data
in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, that sounds like we're not much more than lab rats in some cosmic
experiment. But, to look at nature and the world sure does beg the
Question of Evil, doesn't it?

Besides, can't you just imagine a god like this creating troublesome
objects and conditions to prevent us from becoming too smug or
complacent, and after having done so, sitting back and putting an index
finger to cheek while musing, "There, *that* ought to muck things up a
bit" ?


-Kerry O.

Katrina was not a the fault but a lesson in humility.

Did we not change the face of mother earth in that area without
understanding what the function the parts we changed were.

And at the same time we disrupted the way she breaths so that it was
necessary for her to change the pattern.

In the process of changing the pattern to accomadate our disruption we
found out that our changes to her face weakened our protection from the
pattern.

How is this the fault of god. We did it to ourselves.

To play devil's advocate....there is a good book called "The evolution
hoax exposed" A good read based on scientific evidence.

Wow . . . not impressed

Before aruing evolution please tell what kind of evolution you are
arguing . . . there is microevolution (changes within a species,
adaptation, natural selection) and macroevolution (changes from species
to species). If you are using microevolution to prove macroevolution
please look up "straw man fallacy." I don't believe anyone denies
microevolution. As for me . . . I won't say that macroevolution didn't
happen. I do belive it is more likely that God created the universe in
6 literal days than used macroevolution over millions of years to do it.
But it is still possible.

There are many "theories" of macroevolution that disagree with each
other as much if not more than the age old "evolution vs. creation"

Lets clarify some more semantics. Evolution is not a theory, nor is
creation. Both are more accurately depicted as a scientific model. It
is impossible to prove either one and therefore can not be considered a
theory. If we had a method to recreate the beginning of time or a way
to go back and see it, then we could prove one or the other. A theory
is "capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified
through empirical observation"

The progression is model(a guess as to the workings of a system), theory
(a well educated and tested guess), law (a well documented, always
proven, never disproved theory) . . . . so lets take a look at a couple
of scientific laws and see how they relate to evolution. The Laws of
Nature, aka The Laws of Thermodynamics. Briefly stated the first is
that matter can neither be created nor destryed at this present time.
The second is that everything moves toward entropy (disorder) unless
acted on by an outside force. Google species extintion rate and you
will see that we are loosing species, not getting more. These fossils
we are finding . . . extinct species . . . God created a perfect world,
we ruined it with sin and it is falling into disrepair. I believe if
you truely study evolution with an open mind you will find that it takes
way more faith to believe than the 7 day creation as cited in Genesis.

Evolution might be considered a scientific model. On that you could be
right.

Please be kind enough to show me the science that can explain or even
model creation.

Take an abyss - and create the universe from it in one day.
Take the universe - and create a planet from it, build upon that planet
mountains, forests, oceans, birds, fish, animals of every discription,
etc... in one day.
Take that planet - and create a human from its dust and that humans mate
in one day.

Do you see my point.

More than that.... Start with nothing and become god. When could you
ever in all truth explain that with any kind of science

I encourage everyone to keep their minds open and constantly seek
knowledge. The idea of evolution vs. creation will never be "won". But
we can find peace in the fact that God loves us so much that he sent his
son to die for us. Let us love one another, respect opinions and learn
from each other. This world is too complex for any of us to understand
all of it. It saddens me to see so many people in this world argue
concepts that they can't begin nor are meant to understand. We are made
to live today, to love those around us and to be a reflection of Christ.
Christ did not waste time in pointless, unwinnable arguments . . . he
healed the sick, cared for the poor and preached a gospel of love.
Solomon himself found the search for knowledge pointless. Jesus sums it
up best . . . our purpose . . . what we should live for . . . .
everything we do should be "fist love the Lord you God with all you
heart, soul and mind. Second, love your neighbor as yourself"

Yea.

Let me say it again.

Yea.

All else is but a futile attempt to place god with a catagory.

by the way you expouse the same theories put forth in the same symantics
as spider.

Same school?

Another fun fact to toss around . . .

Look at how much matter is in the universe . . . the amount of empty
space there is. The empty space within an atom. (an atom is about
99.99 percent empty space) break it down further . . . the further you
go the less actual matter you find. Scientists have estimated that the
matter of the entire universe is would be the size of a softball if all
space was removed. And 90% of that is still unaccounted for. So how
much matter is there in the world around us . . . as much as a dream.
Our reality, our things, have no more substance than a dream you have at
night. :) an interesting thought to play with . . . we are just
figments of Gods imagination . . . God spoke us into existance . . . how
lucky we are:)

Doubtful:) Most of what i know has been my own study. I once enjoyed
a good debate and wanted to be well prepared. However I argued out of
pride instead of love. All I wish to do know is share the truth with
those who are truely looking for it. I have read Darwin's "Origin of a
Species" the holy books from many religions and cults . . . and the
Gospel stands above the rest as truth. I have attemped to drop all
preconcieved notions and approach each on the same level . . . and Jesus
Christ is the only logical answer. I encourage everyone to let go of
what they know and open their minds . . . God will reveal himself to
you. All I've done is approaced with questions that breed more
questions . . . the more I answer the more I get . . . all I can do is
have faith.

I would slightly disagree.

An atom is but a model of the greater universe.

It is 100% there.

God is present which fills even an empty cup with the unseen essence.

hard 2 say.

"Evolution is stupid. It claims that we came from rocks and monkeys.
Why are there still monkeys around if we evolved from them? "

Stupidity only comes from such ignorance that one can't accept the truth
in nature.
Fantasy is a great way to escape from the truth but at some time you
need to get with reality.


Ghost

The bible is a fairy tale, written by man, and trodding on women..

God, if He is the Fair and Lving god that you profess Him to be, would
not condone the unequal treatement that women have recieved, and still
receive, at the hands of men!!

For all the intelligence I see in this thread, there is an equal amount
of ignorance!!!

"I encourage everyone to let go of
what they know and open their minds ."
********************************************************

A very kind invitation,, Thank you for extending it....However, I have
no desire to be a Zombie!! .