Such as the future we leave for our offspring. If we don't fix it now,
their future is bleak.

Kat

Kat> we are humans.

Made in the image of god.

Our future is never bleak.

There will allways be light before us and the boundless spirit of god to
guide us.

The Bible says that we were all born sinners. Thats why baptism is
essential. You must confess your sins and be baptised Acts 2:38 in order
to recieve God's forgiveness. We are accountable for the Garden of Eden
and for Cain and Abel.

No no, no...I was refering to the damage that we are putting to mother
earth.
Sorry, I must have read your post wrong.
Kat

AB

I have the faith, was just playing devils advocate so to speak


Trae

Why do I have to confess sins when Jesus already died on the cross for
them, why should I be held responsible for Cain and Abel?
It's not logic and beats me

I am not responsible for any crime committed by any one that is not me.

Correct me if I am wrong but was not cain a sinner and able a good son?

I am not a christian. I can not be held accountable for the sins
committed within a christian fairy tale.

(not trying to offend just don't beleive in original sin)

Invisible,

IMO, faith will never be a mathematical equation. It will never need to
make sense, or balance with reality past.

When present to faith, one person at a time, it delivers reality
(present and future) to all!!!

When one's faith (based on nothing: no evidence necessary), is absent,
the barbaric and primitive nature gives reality. We have lots of
evidence for that, and it has nothing to do with faith.

Oooh, covering a badger in peanut butter and throwing it into an
ice-cream shoppe, that's pretty original !

voileazur

Thank you for your answer. Of course I know most of it myself, but can't
withstand the urge to ask because I want to know what others think.

Invisible>

I totally understand.

to foster wisdom within the fold one must occasionally stir the flock to
action.

I don't know whether you saw the film LOTR 3, when Merry asks Pippin why
do you always have to look and the answer is, "I can't help it" That's
me in a nutshell

I like that show and the outlook of the hobbits.

the smallest of the group yet they were not there to conqure the
world... They are simply there to support a friend.

I would like to think I am willing to walk into danger to protect a
friend.

Yes, a few more Samwise Gamgees wouldn't go astray in this world

Really the original sin was satans rebellion against Yahweh.

Perhaps the original sin was god's mistake in thinking man would stay
cooped up in a garden.

Not meaning to offend anyone.

original sin does not exist...ask a priest to show you where in the
bible does it say that you are condenmed for the sins of your
forefathers...if that is so, then technically all of humanity is doomed
to hell because we all come from Adam and Eve...

replying to the first post...

unfortunately in this world, it is MAN who condemns you for the sin of
your father, not God...even western gov'ts...if your parent or sibling
or any relative for that matter dies before paying a debt, YOU are stuck
having to pay for it...that is wrong, its also the legal way to extort
money from people...it even exists in societies around the world...for
example, in India, if anyone you associate with does something morally
wrong, your all considered the same, especially family...how BS is
that!!!...even me, as a Muslim, i face ridicule all the time...well, I'm
not Osama, nor am i related to Saddam Hussein, and no Ahmedinejad is not
my uncle...Hezbollah existed long before I was born, and in another part
of the world, am I responsible for them and their actions??...should I
carry the burden of guilt, just because they happen to be born into the
same religion as i???....i personally believe "original sin" is a
concoction invented my misguided individuals who sought to convince
others for their own gain...

Exodus 20:5-6 (also Dt 5:9)

I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the
sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate
me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and
keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 24:16

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put
to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the
guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The
righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the
wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

Matthew 23:35 (also Lk 11:50-51)

And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on
earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of
Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think these passages can be understood by looking at what God does in
the Bible. When parents do wrong or experience punishment on earth,
their children share the ill effects - if a parent is put in jail, their
children are adversely affected; if a parent is abusive or negligent,
their children suffer. This sort of thing occurs in many places in the
Bible. For instance, Achan and his family died as a result of his
disobeying God (Joshua 7). However, while children often shared the
earthly punishment of their parents, they would not be punished for
their parents' sins in the afterlife.

Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that the real guilt belongs to the person who
sinned, not their family.

Deuteronomy 24:16 is an application of this principle to
human-administered justice: while God decreed that some sins merited the
death penalty, humans were not to apply the penalty to anyone other than
the guilty party. If, as in the case of Achan, a family or nation was to
be corporately punished, only God had the authority to decide that
corporate punishment was merited.
On the other hand, God often extends mercy to the families of people who
are righteous. Rahab's family was allowed to survive because she
respected God (Joshua 2). God spared Noah's family because Noah was
righteous (Genesis 7:1). And of course the nation of Israel was blessed
because of Abraham's obedience to God (Genesis 22:17-18). Again, the
blessings received by a righteous person's family only affected their
life on earth. A person's relatives will not be saved or condemned in
the afterlife because of that person's actions; rather each will be
judged as individuals.

In other words, the true distinction is between life on earth and the
afterlife. People do not receive precisely what they deserve while they
are on earth; they are affected by the actions of those around them, and
thus can be said to be punished (i.e. experience suffering) for their
relatives' wrongs. But this is a temporary state of affairs; when people
enter the eternal afterlife, they will be judged as individuals, and
what punishment they receive will be only for things they are truly
guilty of.

Why then would God corporately punish a family when not all of them had
sinned? In some cases, the relatives of the wrongdoers shared in their
guilt by failing to stop the person from doing wrong or rebuke them for
their wrong. In other cases, it's possible that the loss of the
wrongdoer's family line was part of their punishment.

Finally, what about the passages in Matthew and Luke, which seem to say
the Jews of Jesus' day would be held accountable for murders committed
by previous generations? Jesus' statement is true in a figurative sense,
i.e. that his contemporaries who rejected him would experience a far
greater condemnation than others who rejected him without the benefit of
hearing his teaching or seeing his miracles. The Jewish leaders were
expected to know the Scriptures and be in close relationship with God,
both of which would have enabled them to recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
They were given advance notice of the Messiah's arrival by John the
Baptist. They also had many opportunities to hear Jesus' teaching,
interact with him and witness the miracles he performed, especially
since Jesus focused his ministry on the Jews. Since they had far more
opportunity to accept Jesus than anyone else, their punishment for
rejecting him would be far greater than that of others (see also Degrees
of punishment in hell).

Jesus' statement can also be taken more literally, in that his
contemporaries were guilty of their ancestors' sins to the extent that
they condoned their actions and committed similar ones. In fact, they
weren't just repeating past sins but were committing ones that were far
worse, since the prophet they persecuted was God himself. Considering
these two factors, one could make a comparison between the punishment
they would receive and the aggregated punishment for all martyrdoms in
previous history.


Kat

Kat
Very well thought out. I do see the sins of the fathers on the
childrens for 3 to 4 generations today. As we well know by now most
child molestors were molested themselves and thier father or mother had
probally had the same sin happen to them. I believe this is what the
commandment was refering to ( any act repeated). Shalom.. Miles

Answer: The Bible mentions “generational curses” in several places
(Exodus 20:5; 34:7; Numbers 14:18; Deuteronomy 5:9). It sounds unfair
for God to punish children for the sins of their fathers. However, this
is looking at it from an earthly perspective. God knows that sin is
passed down from one generation to the next. When a father has a sinful
lifestyle, his children are likely to have the same sinful lifestyle as
well. That is why it is not unjust for God to punish sin to the third or
fourth generation – because they are committing the same sins their
ancestors did. They are being punished for their own sins, not the sins
of their ancestors. The Bible specifically tells us that God does not
hold children accountable for the sins of their parents (Deuteronomy
24:16).



There is a trend in the church today to try and blame every
sin and problem on some sort of generational curse. This is not
Biblical. The cure for generational curses is salvation through Jesus
Christ. When we become Christians, we are new creations (2 Corinthians
5:17). How can a child of God still be under God’s curse (Romans 8:1)?
The cure, then, for a generational curse is faith in Christ and a life
consecrated to Him (Romans 12:1-2).