Sorry

"...Maybe that is the real dicotomy going on..."

DICHOTOMY.

Would this "educare vs educere" not better be a topic of it's own, and
an interesting one as well?

Kat wrote:
“Then why do we have all these books about history? We can't trust
them.”

History book are written by the ‘winners’. You can’t trust them. They
tell one side of a story that is always biased and distorted.

The history of the USA for example was told by the white man as a story
about pioneering new lands and taming a wild environment, not to mention
driving off the savage heathen Indians.

Had the American Native Indians written the history book about North
America the story would have been quite differnet. It would have been a
story about heartless savages that came into their land, raped, pillaged
and destroyed the environment with absolute no respect for nature or
god.

Who tells the story makes a huge difference. Same history, different
perspective.

The people who collected and passed on the stories that eventually came
together to be called "The Bible" were also selective in what they chose
to keep and toss out. They certainly weren’t going to include documents
or stories that contained drastically different views from the ones they
would like to advocate.

Agree 'invisible'

It cold make for an interesting 'standalone'.

Put the point with this post is IMO pertinent.

People either take 'dogma' (not just religious, but in this this case
religious) as is without questioning (educere),

... while others question the established dogma and orthodoxy in a
manner to remain true to this higher nature of being (educare).

Just thought that was a fair observation of the dialogue going on in
this post. Could be wrong!?!?!


Thanks for the comment 'invisible'.

I was four years old when my parents first read the story of 'Le petit
Prince' (little prince), of Antoine De St-Exupéry.

To this day the story has fashioned and inspired my life. I'm clear that
I live according to several principles of 'Le petit Prince's' story.

I 'believe' for myself, in the life principles that this story carries.

Antoine De-St-Exupéry hasn't had to become 'god', or the writer of
'god's personal words, for me to adopt the lessons as 'whole', or from
the 'grace' of God, whom inhabits all of us.

Exactly...so each of us has something that enables us to be better, or
be who we are in our own life search. You have that book, and I have the
one that most enables me to strive and thrive to be a better person.

Kat

voileazur,

I can assure you that you are wrong. I don't accept by rote anything
that is taught by mainstream (or non-mainstream) Christianity. I have
frequent disagreements with Christians on many subjects. What you have
said is a very common statement that non-Christians make. They like to
attack the Bible by calling it a "box" or, like the extremely strange
post earlier, suggest that the Bible is made of animal skin and bark.
It's very important to reinforce the idea that Christians are
indoctrinated, ignorant and wholly dependant on the Bible. Somehow
non-Christians can in one breath attack Christianity for the multitude
of denominations, suggesting division and in the next breath claim that
we all walk lock step. Perhaps it comforts you to think that I believe
what I do because I was told to, but I don't. I was raised Mormon.
Later I studied Kabbalah. Then I spent years in spirtual limbo,
believing that Darwin was right and that the world was billions of years
old. Now I am a non-denominational Christian. If you think I'm the
exception, you are wrong. Many Christians started their life as
something else. Most children who are raised Christian leave the church
shortly after leaving their parent's home. We have free-will,
Christianity isn't a brainwashing cult that destroys personal identity.

I would be willing to bet that there are many things that the
non-Christians and even some of the Christians here believe, which are
completely untrue. Would any of you question your position on
Christianity, if you found out that things you had heard and sometimes
even been taught, were false?

Here's a few examples...

Lucifer is a descriptive term that was used sarcastically in reference
to the king of Babylon. Satan's name is never mentioned in the Bible.

There were no people before Adam and Eve, their children married each
other and produced perfectly healthy children. The possiblity of this
is demonstratable through simple science.

The Israelites were not lost in the desert for 40 years as is frequently
suggested.

Goliath was probably a rank in the Philistines army, not a name.

Satan never said "I would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven"
First, Hell doesn't exist. Second, Satan will be confined to the Lake
of Fire as a prisoner, he will be ruling nothing.

Spider wrote:
"I have frequent disagreements with Christians on many subjects."

If that's the case then why should anyone accept your personal
interpretations as “the word of God”

What makes YOU so special?

You said yourself that you have only just recently be saved and now you
speak for God?

WOW!

You must have really been SAVED!!!

With all due respect Spider you’re starting to come across as a
fanatical radical now.

I was thinking that as someone who has just been saved you might still
be questioning your faith and I didn’t want to be the cause of any
doubts in your new faith.

But if you wish to claim to be the ultimate authority and translator of
the word of God then I suppose I’ll just step aside and let the wolves
eat you alive. May the lord have mercy on your soul.

I am sure there are some of Spider's points I would disagree with but,
by and large, he presents a FAR better argument for his case than much
of the other contrived suppositions I've seen on here. Certainly seems
to know what he's talking about, at least.

Why...

Cause he can quote a book even christians agree will be quoted by the
anit-christ.

so what.

Abracadabra wrote:

If that's the case then why should anyone accept your personal
interpretations as “the word of God”

========================================================================================
SpiderCMB replied:

I can offer references to scriptures to support everything I have
posted. I haven't really posted anything that is controversial among
Christians, I don't like talking about the controversial subjects. The
most controversial thing I have said is that Hell doesn't exist. There
are many many Christians that feel this way. I believe the scripture
supports that view. Hell is simply a translation of Sheol, which means
"grave".

========================================================================================
Abracadabra wrote:

What makes YOU so special?

You said yourself that you have only just recently be saved and now you
speak for God?

WOW!

You must have really been SAVED!!!

========================================================================================
SpiderCMB Replied:

I don't speak for God, the Bible does. I have merely explain what the
majority of Christians believe. As I mentioned, I have only brought up
one subject that is controversial to Christians.

========================================================================================
Abracadabra wrote:

With all due respect Spider you’re starting to come across as a
fanatical radical now.

========================================================================================
SpiderCMB Replied:

I am fanatical in my love for Jesus and my dance moves are radical.
Totally radical.

========================================================================================
Abracadabra wrote:

I was thinking that as someone who has just been saved you might still
be questioning your faith and I didn’t want to be the cause of any
doubts in your new faith.

========================================================================================
SpiderCMB Replied:

You couldn't. Do you really think that you have said or asked anything
I haven't heard? I was in the largest Christian debate forum on MySpace
since I was saved. I have learned in trail by fire, that my faith is
properly place. Jesus is the rock on which I have built my faith, you
can't shake the rock.

========================================================================================
Abracadabra wrote:

But if you wish to claim to be the ultimate authority and translator of
the word of God then I suppose I’ll just step aside and let the wolves
eat you alive. May the lord have mercy on your soul.

========================================================================================
SpiderCMB Replied:

I have never made that claim. I was simply pointing out that many
Christian religions have lost sight of some simple truths in the Bible.
I wanted to make you and the rest of the non-Christians / former
Christians aware that what you think you know about Christianity is very
likely false.

No, because he presents a sensical argument.

So far all he’s done is quote the bible. He hasn’t offered anything I
haven’t already heard a billion times before.

His ‘case’ is simple:

Premise: The Bible *is* the word of God.

Answers to all questions after that,...

Because God said so! And it says so right here in his book.

That’s hardly an answer to anything.

All he’s doing is ‘presuming’ the Bible to be the word of God.

I could argue that case if I wanted to waste my time typing nonsense.

AdventureBegins wrote:

Why...

Cause he can quote a book even christians agree will be quoted by the
anit-christ.

so what.

=====================================================================================
SpiderCMB replied:

Actually, the anti-Christ may or may not quote the scripture, that is
not recorded in the Bible. Satan, however, does quote scripture, but
always out of context.

Oh well it is but one path.

You keep finding your faith in it sir.

I shall walk in my faith.

And by the glory of god we will meet in the next life and this will be
but a small part of our pasts.

May peace radiate from you.

"So far all he’s done is quote the bible. He hasn’t offered anything I
haven’t already heard a billion times before."

The same could be argued for your posts. All you've done is quote
(whatever/whomever) or formed your own opinions. Nothing we haven't
heard a billion times before.

"His ‘case’ is simple:

Premise: The Bible *is* the word of God."

YES! It's as simple as that! And isn't that wonderful??!!

"Answers to all questions after that...

Because God said so! And it says so right here in his book.

That’s hardly an answer to anything."

It's not? Why not? Just because you CHOOSE not to believe it, just
because your self-perceived intellectual superiority won't allow you to
believe it does not make it not so.

"All he is doing is ‘presuming’ the Bible to be the word of God."

LOL...and only about ...ohhh...MILLIONS of other people "presume" that
to be true, too.

"I could argue that case if I wanted to waste my time typing nonsense."

I'm sorry, that's what I thought you have been doing all along.

You guys are feeling the goad now, there is no use denying it. If you
let the Holy Sprit work on your heart, you will experiance something too
amazing for words.

Acts 26:14
-------------------------------------------------------------
"And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me
in the Hebrew dialect, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is
hard for you to kick against the goads.'
-------------------------------------------------------------

You can be like Paul and allow the goads to lead you to Jesus or you can
be like those poor souls described in Revelation 16:10-11.

Revelation 16:10-11
-------------------------------------------------------------
Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and
his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of
pain, and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and
their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.
-------------------------------------------------------------

We are all born sinners. Thats why you have to be baptized to be washed
from your sins

I need not be baptized by water.

I have been baptized by the rush of the holy spirit. Water can never
touch such a powerful thing.

Sheila wrote:
“It's not? Why not? Just because you CHOOSE not to believe it, just
because your self-perceived intellectual superiority won't allow you to
believe it does not make it not so.”

Are you saying that we shouldn’t ask intellectual questions? That we
should just shut up and believe like good little dummies?

I suppose that would be nice. That’s what the church has always tried
to instill in the masses.

Don't question God!

In other words, don’t question the religion, just shut up and do as your
told.

How convenient.

Sheila wrote:
“LOL...and only about ...ohhh...MILLIONS of other people "presume" that
to be true, too.”

Millions of lemmings have jump off cliffs too.