Who were these educated men that claim that God inspired them? Can their existence even be verified and can it be verified that they themselves made this claim?

I don't think so. I think the Church founders made that claim and declared it to be so.

Even so, I can make the same claim. Everything I write is God inspired.

So help me God!

Well not only that, but people often say, "Jesus said this, and Jesus said that". But if you read the Bible you'll clearly see that Jesus never said anything that's in it!

I think a lot of people take far too much for granted. When I'm given the Bible to read (as an adult!) I read it for precisely what it claims to be (MEN TALKING ABOUT a man named Jesus!).

When people claim that Jesus said something, they really need to clarify that by saying that "Matthew claims that Jesus said,.... Or Mark claims that Jesus said,.... and so on". Jesus never wrote a single solitary word.

In fact, that truly bring into question the very idea of the Bible having been the 'word of God'.

I personally feel that if our creator had something to say to us and he actually came to earth in human form he would have written down his own message to be sure it was right!

The mere fact that no writings actually exist from Jesus suggest several possible scenarios. Either, he never existed, or he wasn't God, or he actually did write things down and they were destroyed because the authoritarians didn't like what he had to say. In fact, I've heard several scholars suggest as much.

If Jesus had a message for you and me why would he expect us to put our faith in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?

That's ridiculous. If Jesus wanted us to have faith in HIM then HE would have written his own book!

This is all the more reason to seriously question the legitimacy of the whole doctrine.

I've never been against the supposed teachings of this supposed man named Jesus. On the contrary I think most of what he supposedly taught is common sense that anyone should be able to figure out on their own. I think anyone who actually needs something like the Bible to teach them good morals is already a hopeless case.

It's all common sense stuff!

The only parts that are incredulous is all the demagogurey about needed to be saved from eternal damnation. But when I read the Bible I don't feel that any of this is coming from any divine creator, on the contrary I get a very strong feeling that this is nothing more than the demagogurey of men.

It's just not necessary to believe in the Bible to believe in a supreme life force. Many cultures believe in a supreme life force including the Eastern Mystics who don't have God lusting for blood sacrifices and threatening eternal damanation for 'non-believers'. It's just absurd IMHO to believe that an all-wise loving God would demand such an unreasonable thing.

And it is clearly unreasonable to expect people to believe that God is as crude as the Bible demands. It's crude. I just don't see how anyone could even begin to claim that it's not.

The very idea of a God sacrificing his "only begotten son" in a very dramatic and gory way to appease a fallen angel is utterly absurd IMHO.

That simply isn't the kind of behavior that I would expect from a genuinely all-wise benevolent being.

It just amazes me beyond belief that anyone in this modern age even gives these stories the time of day. They just aren't divine stories. Period.

Evidence of what. exactly?

It is not a scientific theory because the "facts" f Evolution's presumptions cannot be verified. It is mere interpretation of current observation of biogenic change within species - extrapolated back and presumed to "prove" that species evolved through an evolutionary "tree" as opposed to a forest of "kinds".

It's presumption - like Christainity. And remains catogorized as a religion until DEMONSTRATED otherwise.

but again....no one from the evolution side can prove where the "dot" that started everything came from

evolution can't prove that anymore than creationism. at some point we all have to say "I don't know". for creationism, it's a matter of faith

well it's not faith because in science you can say "I Don't Know"
And science is constently trying to prove itself wrong.
Religion has the end and trys to cram everything into it and then says it has all the answers.

which is why i said with CREATIONISM it's faith

oh my bad then lol

lol get your tentacles out of your ears lol


i had to reread what i said too. i'm killing time before work so i'm typing in a hurry lol

seamonster.....you were the only one that even tried to answer that question. ty

at some point...we can't explain it. or at least not prove it through science or in a way for others to believe

I don't know why people get upset about scientific theory and discovery or why they attack it except that it does not agree with their personal beliefs which they have to admit are faith.

I think it is because they attempt to sell it as fact or truth when they have nothing to support it. If religious people would just admit that theirs is a personal belief and faith and stop trying to sell it as fact they would not be so disturbed by scientific theory and discovery.

What do they want scientists to do? Stick their heads in the sand and accept their version of the world and pray for cures rather than look for cures for disease? If they did that, people would still be dieing of diseases we cured a long time ago.

I would tell these creationist who are making all this noise to let scientists do what they do and get the hell out of their way. They are not trying to close down your faith or your religion, they are just looking at things and finding answers.

If religious people who believe otherwise would just keep their noses out of it, there would never be any discussion. Scientists don't go around knocking on doors trying to sell their theories to people, nor do they go into churches and tell the people how silly they are to believe what they believe.

It is only when a religious zealot portends to disprove or challenge their scientific theories and ignore their evidence that they tend to respond.

As long as religions are going out and trying to sell their faith as fact they are going to get challenged. Then they turn around and cry like poor mistreated victims that their faith is being dismantles or attacked. They bring that on themselves.

This is a little off topic, and doesnt really pertain to religious fanatics, but I think a lot of humans in general, are just too self righteous and egotistical, and they refuse to believe that they evolved from anything.

I know. I've had that thought myself "What?! I didnt evolve from an ape! I'm not dumb?!" But, I'm also not ruling out the fact that it is indeed POSSIBLE.

I doubt it will ever be "proven", just like the existence of God, and many other things discussed here. But, I like to keep an open mind.

Well, not only is it a self-centered arrogance, but it also shows a complete lack of appreciation for the other living beings that we share this planet with.

We are not all that far removed from other animals as far as intelligence is concerned. In fact a lot of people actually behave in a manner that is less intelligent than some monkeys.

The fact that we can plot and are self-aware doesn't automatically make us WISE. There are indeed a lot of animals that are far wiser than a lot of humans.

We'd be seriously kidding ourselves if we refuse to recognize that fact.

Also, according to Jesus it's difficult to know whether being wise is good or not good. The authors of the Bible have Jesus saying such contradictory things:

For example here Jesus makes it sound like it's good to be wise:

Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock."

But then a little later the same book has Jesus recanting that sentiment:

Matthew 11:25 "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

So now we're stuck with a mixed message and we have no way of knowing whether Jesus likes people who are wise or not.

This is a huge problem with the Bible all the way through. It's constantly sending mixed messages and it's impossible to know what the authors are trying to say or whether they truly understood what Jesus had said, assuming they weren't just making him up altogether.

This is why the religion has fallen apart into Judaism, Islam, Catholicism, and the myriad denominations of Protestantism. Even the people who support this book (or it's origins) cannnot agree on what it has to say.

That's the only FACT we really know.

No one agrees on what the book says! Even the people who claim to be believe in the book can't agree on what it says.

The only thing we can know for SURE as FACT is that the book is totally ambiguous and impossible to interpret with clarity.

That alone should be proof positive that it didn't come from any divine source of wisdom.

The study of how we became or what has started everything will be in the minds of humans as long as they exist.

Difference of opinion will always occurr in the process.

What is important is that we can do this in a peaceful way without harming others in the process, yet sadly history shows us repeats instead of lessons as people continue to push their belief systems by any means possible, which includes violence in the process.

May we one day proof smarter that regardless if we don't agree on what or how things started that we can appreciate each others thought processes merely for the fact that we thought about it in the first place.

As ironic as it sounds we don't know very much no matter how many books, degrees, or chats we conduct throughout our lifetimes.

The best we can do is try to emphasize the importance of peace so that we as a people regardless how different we are or think can learn to tolerate or even accept the difference of opinion.

Only then will we learn from history that we can move forward in this aspect to perhaps find answers that we never knew before.

This I would say is the biggest challenge mankind has today.

Abra

Even a simple thing a child knows Abra.....everything in red is exactly what Jesus said....

If you don't even know that not only did Jesus speak but throughout the NT with all the gospels..And you want people to believe you even have a clue of what your talking about. PLEASEEEEEEEE


Oh you truly have no clue....

Understand something.....Read Acts all of it...And it will answer all your questions....These so called only men. Saw Jesus personally asend to heaven to be with his Father...This left the disciples to carry on what Jesus started.....And so so so many people came...Acts is the start of the Church

The parables were written for people just like you Abra....because without the Faith, and the total love of Christ you will always remain clueless.

And you will always feel that it is not of God, because your ears and eyes will remain closed off to Christ because of baggage that you have in your life.

But my friend this is the bottom line...I have talked to many athiest and men and women that did have eyes and ears closed.....And when they opened them a crack......Yep God walked right through and changed these peoples hearts...In their own lives God showed them through circumstances where once again they no longer deny him....Deny Christ, Abra....it's your choice...But again don't talk of things you clearly DO NOT UNDERSTAND....

And God's love for you Abra never stops
Don't walk with him, He will still love you
For God is a God of Love
Because he loves you
Because he loves you
Because he loves you
Because he loves you
Because he loves you
Because he loves you
Because he loves you

Because that is.......who He is

I have all the answers you are seeking

It's all in the new condensed version of my new book

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BadGirl


supplies limited so act now

Evolution is not about where the dot came from. It is about how life on earth changed. It doesn't have anything to do with where it all started. Creationism is a faith based version of how life began according to the bible.

I love you too Debbie.

<--- someones distant uncle

It looks like you after a 12 packor at least that is what Merle said.