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| Topic: Is Obama really christian | |
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I can't do the abortion thing for the millionth zillionth time..
I am beginning to think that one can't really have a discussion with most Christians or should I say Christians with a strict biblical interpretation?. No offense intended, Really!! but there's just no grey areas for you guys, no alternatives and no exploration, so the topic just ends up upsetting Christians when it wasn't even meant to address Christians alone. In such a diverse world, it's really strange that much of Christianity is not as diverse as the world surrounding it.... I'll just let this thread go because I have lost my train of thought. 
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As for the abortion issue, I will say this once again.
Until all unwanted, neglected, disabled, etc... existing children in the world are placed in loving homes permanently, noone has any right to argue about the use of abortion in family planning. When the day comes when we have a shortage of children to adopt and care for then and only then should we worry about taking abortion off the table as a method available to women to use at their personal discretion. As for Obama's religious beliefs they should not be any of our business, religion is personal, it is not a statement of ones character at any level. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 01/24/09 08:59 PM
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Dragoness....thruout history,
one of satan's cleverest tools that he used against true christians , was to get people caught and bound up in " religiousity"..... and then still call it "christianity". Hence ....all the atrocities done in the name of christianity thruout history. And then of course, who get the blame ? Chrisitianity ..... instead of the enemy who was/is the REAL cause for blame. And.....a prime example of how the enemy sneaked into christianity , was the tryanny of religious rule in the mother country.... again....under the quise of "christianity".... that the founding fathers of this nation broke away from... and did.... and won.... and then built the foundation of this country upon the TRUE principles and meaning of christianity.... which was NOT about religious rule at all... but about freedom of choice.... which btw....is the same freedom of choice, that God ALSO allows us.... to come to Him WILLINGLY on our own.... and again....that same freedom of choice , is the same principle this Christian nation is built on.... that allows people freedom of choice.... to come to God on our own, also..... and not be forced or lorded over, by religious rule.... as was done in the old country. Once more.... This christian nation was founded on the TRUE christian principles and the true meaning of what christianity is all about..... which also allows one freedom of choice...... and therefore, is WHY this nation is not built upon a christian RELIGION!!! Cause again, TRUE christianity is NOT about religion in the first place... but relationship between man and God. And when a nation has that kind of foundation...... there is freedom of choice allowed for all.... just as God allows us freedom of choice. Hope this helps make things more clearer now, , Dragoness.  
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If Obama is christian or muslim, he is betraying his faith by supporting abortion. Personally, I don't really care what his personal religious beliefs are, because Obama's stated political positions are bad for the USA. My best guess is that Obama does not have strongly held beliefs. He may have a belief in God, he might be a christian, but I do not think faith is a central part of his life. Then again, I could be wrong, and he might be much more devout than he appears.  No he is not betraying anything.Obama has never had an abortion or participated in any of that
By that logic, Bush as never water boarded anyone, or participated in any of that. Bush gave an order to do something that was illegal. Abortion has been around for decades and it was legal before Obama came along.
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Dragoness....thruout history, one of satan's cleverest tools that he used against true christians , was to get people caught and bound up in " religiousity"..... and then still call it "christianity". Hence ....all the atrocities done in the name of christianity thruout history. And then of course, who get the blame ? Chrisitianity ..... instead of the enemy who was/is the REAL cause for blame. And.....a prime example of how the enemy sneaked into christianity , was the tryanny of religious rule in the mother country.... again....under the quise of "christianity".... that the founding fathers of this nation broke away from... and did.... and won.... and then built the foundation of this country upon the TRUE principles and meaning of christianity.... which was NOT about religious rule at all... but about freedom of choice.... which btw....is the same freedom of choice, that God ALSO allows us.... to come to Him WILLINGLY on our own.... and again....that same freedom of choice , is the same principle this Christian nation is built on.... that allows people freedom of choice.... to come to God on our own, also..... and not be forced or lorded over, by religious rule.... as was done in the old country. Once more.... This christian nation was founded on the TRUE christian principles and the true meaning of what christianity is all about..... which also allows one freedom of choice...... and therefore, is WHY this nation is not built upon a christian RELIGION!!! Cause again, TRUE christianity is NOT about religion in the first place... but relationship between man and God. And when a nation has that kind of foundation...... there is freedom of choice allowed for all.... just as God allows us freedom of choice. Hope this helps make things more clearer now, , Dragoness.
A nation founded on ANY religion where the religion rules becomes a tyrant to it's own citizens and possibly the world. The founding fathers knew this because of where they came from and so they included the freedom of religion in the bylaws. We are not founded nor are we a country of one religion. Religions do not make the morality of the nation. People make the morality of the nation. My opinion here of course and I am not targeting you per se, just the hypocrisy of religion teaching freedom with shackles. You have the right to personally believe how you wish, I make no effort to change you, just posting my opinion. |
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Dragoness....thruout history, one of satan's cleverest tools that he used against true christians , was to get people caught and bound up in " religiousity"..... and then still call it "christianity". Hence ....all the atrocities done in the name of christianity thruout history. And then of course, who get the blame ? Chrisitianity ..... instead of the enemy who was/is the REAL cause for blame. And.....a prime example of how the enemy sneaked into christianity , was the tryanny of religious rule in the mother country.... again....under the quise of "christianity".... that the founding fathers of this nation broke away from... and did.... and won.... and then built the foundation of this country upon the TRUE principles and meaning of christianity.... which was NOT about religious rule at all... but about freedom of choice.... which btw....is the same freedom of choice, that God ALSO allows us.... to come to Him WILLINGLY on our own.... and again....that same freedom of choice , is the same principle this Christian nation is built on.... that allows people freedom of choice.... to come to God on our own, also..... and not be forced or lorded over, by religious rule.... as was done in the old country. Once more.... This christian nation was founded on the TRUE christian principles and the true meaning of what christianity is all about..... which also allows one freedom of choice...... and therefore, is WHY this nation is not built upon a christian RELIGION!!! Cause again, TRUE christianity is NOT about religion in the first place... but relationship between man and God. And when a nation has that kind of foundation...... there is freedom of choice allowed for all.... just as God allows us freedom of choice. Hope this helps make things more clearer now, , Dragoness.
 ...**throwing kisses**
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 01/24/09 09:50 PM
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Dragoness....thruout history, one of satan's cleverest tools that he used against true christians , was to get people caught and bound up in " religiousity"..... and then still call it "christianity". Hence ....all the atrocities done in the name of christianity thruout history. And then of course, who get the blame ? Chrisitianity ..... instead of the enemy who was/is the REAL cause for blame. And.....a prime example of how the enemy sneaked into christianity , was the tryanny of religious rule in the mother country.... again....under the quise of "christianity".... that the founding fathers of this nation broke away from... and did.... and won.... and then built the foundation of this country upon the TRUE principles and meaning of christianity.... which was NOT about religious rule at all... but about freedom of choice.... which btw....is the same freedom of choice, that God ALSO allows us.... to come to Him WILLINGLY on our own.... and again....that same freedom of choice , is the same principle this Christian nation is built on.... that allows people freedom of choice.... to come to God on our own, also..... and not be forced or lorded over, by religious rule.... as was done in the old country. Once more.... This christian nation was founded on the TRUE christian principles and the true meaning of what christianity is all about..... which also allows one freedom of choice...... and therefore, is WHY this nation is not built upon a christian RELIGION!!! Cause again, TRUE christianity is NOT about religion in the first place... but relationship between man and God. And when a nation has that kind of foundation...... there is freedom of choice allowed for all.... just as God allows us freedom of choice. Hope this helps make things more clearer now, , Dragoness.
A nation founded on ANY religion where the religion rules becomes a tyrant to it's own citizens and possibly the world. The founding fathers knew this because of where they came from and so they included the freedom of religion in the bylaws. We are not founded nor are we a country of one religion. Religions do not make the morality of the nation. People make the morality of the nation. My opinion here of course and I am not targeting you per se, just the hypocrisy of religion teaching freedom with shackles. You have the right to personally believe how you wish, I make no effort to change you, just posting my opinion. Dragoness.... read what I just wrote above ...
I just explained WHY this nation was NOT built upon a christian RELIGION. And also...that TRUE christianity is NOT about religion in the first place. This nation was not founded on a christian religion... but on christian principles.... (big difference) thus, making it a christian a nation.... and not a religious nation. Now Granted, not everyone lives and abides by these christian principles. And We will always have those who make all of what Christianity stands for, look bad..... but that still doesn't take away from the fact, that this nation was founded on christian principles. Now if we all could just abide by them.... and accept one another now.... and love one another now... and live in peace and harmony now.... and pray for this nation now... and for one another.... IN EARNEST... and TRUST GOD To DO THE REST!!
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(((((((
Giocamo))))))))
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The nation was not literally set upon Christian principles either. Some Christian principles coincide with the nations base but not all. So that is a stretch also.
And for our nation to abide by Christian principles to make it "better" is a religious bias that seems to be allowed but it does not make it correct. Religion is not the moral compass for prosperity. It is a matter of personal beliefs that work for each person and they are all different. My opinion here of course. |
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Edited by
Giocamo
on
Sat 01/24/09 11:13 PM
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((((((( Giocamo))))))))
keep up the good work...I know it's rough for us at times...trying to live up to standards...each and everyday...but...someone's got to do it...right ?...
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 01/24/09 11:30 PM
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Dragoness wrote:
And for our nation to abide by Christian principles to make it "better" , is a religious bias that seems to be allowed but it does not make it correct. Religion is not the moral compass for prosperity. It is a matter of personal beliefs that work for each person and they are all different." Once again Dragoness....
This christian nation ALLOWS religion to be a personal choice. And Once again... Christianity is NOT a RELIGION. BUT A LIFESTYLE. ABOUT RELATIONSHIP. AND NOT ABOUT RELIGION AT ALL. And It does NOT matter if christianity IS listed as a religion..it is NOT. Now..if some want to still call christianity a religion... fine...go ahead.... cause christians already KNOW that christianity is about joining Jesus.. and NOT about joining some religion.... christians already KNOW in our hearts.... that true christianity is about the RELATIONSHIP we now have back with Abba Father... and not about being IN a religion... or joining some church or some denomination ...or even a non-denomination, , at all!! Again...Christianity.... and the christian principles this nation is founded on..... is NOT about RELIGION!! HOWEVER...... THERE Are THOSE WHO JOIN A CHURCH.... AND THINK THEY ARE NOW " CHRISTIANS"... CAUSE THEY BECAME A MEMBER OF A CHURCH ... BUT THAT DOES NOT NOT NOT MAKE A PERSON A CHRISTIAN AT ALL.... AND THAT IS NOT NOT NOT WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT AT ALL!!! Once more...Christianity is NOT a religion!!! BUT.... LET'S SAY FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE.... SOME STILL WANT TO CALL CHRISTIANITY A RELIGION. WELL...AGAIN.. THIS NATION IS NOT NOT NOT FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION.. OR ON ANY ONE RELIGION AT ALL... BUT IS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! |
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it's about being Spiritual...as opposed to being Religious...I think ?...
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Dragoness wrote: And for our nation to abide by Christian principles to make it "better" , is a religious bias that seems to be allowed but it does not make it correct. Religion is not the moral compass for prosperity. It is a matter of personal beliefs that work for each person and they are all different." Once again Dragoness....
This christian nation ALLOWS religion to be a personal choice. And Once again... Christianity is NOT a RELIGION. BUT A LIFESTYLE. ABOUT RELATIONSHIP. AND NOT ABOUT RELIGION AT ALL. And It does NOT matter if christianity IS listed as a religion..it is NOT. Now..if some want to still call christianity a religion... fine...go ahead.... cause christians already KNOW that christianity is about joining Jesus.. and NOT about joining some religion.... christians already KNOW in our hearts.... that true christianity is about the RELATIONSHIP we now have back with Abba Father... and not about being IN a religion... or joining some church or some denomination ...or even a non-denomination, , at all!! Again...Christianity.... and the christian principles this nation is founded on..... is NOT about RELIGION!! HOWEVER...... THERE Are THOSE WHO JOIN A CHURCH.... AND THINK THEY ARE NOW " CHRISTIANS"... CAUSE THEY BECAME A MEMBER OF A CHURCH ... BUT THAT DOES NOT NOT NOT MAKE A PERSON A CHRISTIAN AT ALL.... AND THAT IS NOT NOT NOT WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT AT ALL!!! Once more...Christianity is NOT a religion!!! Again Christian beliefs are not the principles of this country, there are coinciding doctrines but it is not an exact match. If you want to say Christianity is not a religion, you have that right, although others will disagree with you, I will not, for you have a right to what you believe. |
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Dragoness.....my apologies for all the caps.....
sometimes I use caps for emphasis... but did not intend to use caps this time..... the caps locked..and my pc is giving me probs..... so again, please accept my sincere apologies. Dragoness
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I think he does believe in a faith system and it is mentioned that his wife went to church before coming to the inauguration. He also prayed with the priest on inaugaration day. I also believe that he thinks that the type of faith a person practices is his or her business and should keep it private for the family. He is doing a good job of that and following along with how the inauguration was created for him and Vice President Biden for he knows many who come to see him have strong faith systems. In his inaugaration speech, President Obama mentioned that this is a land that all can live in. Christian, Muslim,Hindu or those who don't believe and we should respect each other as a people. I thought that was a nice part of the speech he made when he became President. I am sure that he truly meant what he said as he once was a lawyer for civilian rights and a avid defender of the Constitution. I also believe he will try to restore America's image by trying to show this is a land that can cooperate with the world, show compassion, resolve major issues through diplomacy, and work with other nations in the efforts to preserve healthy economies, peace, and prosperity. If Congress will work with him is another question all together, yet I know he wants to restore the government into where the people can trust it again. It is highly pass due and he knows it. He truly has alot on his plate trying to make a Democratic Republic into a stabile Direct Democratic System to where people can live amongst each other peaceful and be educated enough to tolerate other lifestyles around the world. As he has lived and travelled to other countries throughout his childhood and later as a young adult he saw many different belief systems to make him a more wisier man to understand that not everyone can be the same. I am sure he is much more acceptable to the world because he has done this. It saddens me that many Americans don't travel to see other cultures to learn to understand that not everything is based on American belief system or lifestyle. This world is big with many different idealogies that work just as good as the American way of life, if not better in some countries. There is my 2 cents worth for this morning and I will be off to create a delicious raspberry, french vanilla organic smoothie with bananas. May you have a wonderful day without tearing down other peoples lifestyles. This was a pleasure to read. |
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I will only consider someone a true Christian when they can chug the bottle of Drano under my sink and not fall ill and die.
Jesus said himself his true followers cold do et! |
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I will only consider someone a true Christian when they can chug the bottle of Drano under my sink and not fall ill and die. Jesus said himself his true followers cold do et! Billy....
There is a BIG BIG DIFFERENCE between FAITH ...... versus FOOLISHNES.....
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I will only consider someone a true Christian when they can chug the bottle of Drano under my sink and not fall ill and die. Jesus said himself his true followers cold do et! Billy....
There is a BIG BIG DIFFERENCE between FAITH ...... versus FOOLISHNES.....
with the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountians but no-one seems to have even that much faith in their god. hmmmm |
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I will only consider someone a true Christian when they can chug the bottle of Drano under my sink and not fall ill and die. Jesus said himself his true followers cold do et! Billy....
There is a BIG BIG DIFFERENCE between FAITH ...... versus FOOLISHNES.....
with the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountians but no-one seems to have even that much faith in their god. hmmmm GOD NEVER WILL ASK US TO TEMPT GOD !!!!
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Sun 01/25/09 06:40 PM
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There is also no such thing as a country founded of Christian priciples that would ever be truely accepting and equitable to every other form of belief. You missed the point. America always embraced others who came here for whatever reason. It's political correctness that is what's tearing this country down. You people are the ones with the gripe...at all the rest of our expense I might add. When you learn to be comfortable in your own skin then you won't need to attack other people's beliefs. Instead you want the govt. to get behind you at someone else's expense. Don't be surprized if all that nonsense doesn't backfire in your faces. |
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