Topic: Sodom and Gomorrah: Whats the deal?
keepthehope's photo
Wed 12/24/08 11:54 PM
I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.

MirrorMirror's photo
Thu 12/25/08 12:20 AM
Edited by MirrorMirror on Thu 12/25/08 12:44 AM

I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.


:smile: You contradict yourself:smile:



huh How did he have his priorities wrong?huh

:smile: You said he feared God more than the idiots outside of his door:smile:Thats right:smile:So how could he have his priorities wrong yet fear God more than the people outside?huh




DHinkle's photo
Thu 12/25/08 12:23 AM
wasnt lot abrahams son?

MirrorMirror's photo
Thu 12/25/08 12:32 AM

wasnt lot abrahams son?
:smile:According to the Bible and the Quran, Lot (Hebrew: לוֹט, Standard Lowt ("veil") Tiberian Loṭ; Arabic: لوط, Lūṭ; "Hidden, covered"[1]) was the nephew of the patriarch, Abraham or Abram.:smile:He was the son of Abraham's brother Haran.:smile:(Gen. 11:27) Abraham's brother Nahor became Lot's brother in law by the marriage of Nahor (Abraham's brother) to Milcah (Lot's sister).:smile:


DHinkle's photo
Thu 12/25/08 12:35 AM
wow but he did go to the city with abraham right which is where god told them to live outside the town, and lot disobeyed, i think im right but im askin cause u seem to no wat ur talkin bout

MirrorMirror's photo
Thu 12/25/08 12:41 AM

wow but he did go to the city with abraham right which is where god told them to live outside the town, and lot disobeyed, i think im right but im askin cause u seem to no wat ur talkin bout
:smile: Here, I looked it up for you.:smile:Hope it answers your question:smile:

The story of Lot is told in the Book of Genesis. Lot is mentioned in chapters 11-14 and 19.

Lot was the son of Abraham's brother Haran.[2] Lot and his family went with Abraham and his family from Ur of the Chaldees to Egypt. When Abraham traveled to the Land of Canaan at the command of God, Lot accompanied him. (Gen 12:1-5). Abraham had always a great affection for him, and when they could not continue longer together in Canaan because they both had large flocks and their shepherds sometimes quarrelled (Gen 13:6,7) he gave Lot the choice of his abode. Lot went southeast to plains near the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, since the land there was well watered. (Gen. 13:10-12).

About eight years after this separation, Chedorlaomer and his allies attacked the kings of Sodom and the neighbouring cities, pillaged Sodom, and took many captives, including Lot. Abraham armed his servants, pursued the confederate kings, and overtook them near the springs of Jordan. He recovered the spoils they had taken and brought back Lot with the other captives. Abraham was offered a reward by the King of Sodom, but refused even a shoelace.

In Gen. 19, when God plans to overturn and destroy the five cities of the plain, he sends angels to the city of Sodom where they meet Lot at the city gates. Lot seems greatly concerned that the angels should spend the night in his house but the angels insist they wish to spend the night in the city street. Lot puts a great deal of pressure on them and eventually convinces them. However all the people of Sodom surround Lots house with intent to meet (in some translations, rape) the angels (19:5). Lot offers the men his daughters instead, whom he says are virgins (19:8), but the men were not interested. Consequently, an Arabic expression for homosexuals is derived from the name for the people of Lot or Lut(in Arabic).i.e., Luti.


DHinkle's photo
Thu 12/25/08 12:47 AM
thank you i spent alot of time in church wen i was young but its been awhile

no photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:25 AM
Edited by CircuitRider on Thu 12/25/08 04:31 AM

I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.



From The Torah,

Genesis 18:

20 And the LORD said: 'Verily, the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and, verily, their sin is exceeding grievous. 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto Me; and if not, I will know.' 22 And the men turned from thence, and went toward Sodom; but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 23 And Abraham drew near, and said: 'Wilt Thou indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 Peradventure there are fifty righteous within the city; wilt Thou indeed sweep away and not forgive the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from Thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked, that so the righteous should be as the wicked; that be far from Thee; shall not the Judge of all the earth do justly?' 26 And the LORD said: 'If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will forgive all the place for their sake.' 27 And Abraham answered and said: 'Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, who am but dust and ashes. 28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous; wilt Thou destroy all the city for lack of five?' And He said: 'I will not destroy it, if I find there forty and five.' 29 And he spoke unto Him yet again, and said: 'Peradventure there shall be forty found there.' And He said: 'I will not do it for the forty's sake.' 30 And he said: 'Oh, let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak. Peradventure there shall thirty be found there.' And He said: 'I will not do it, if I find thirty there.' 31 And he said: 'Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD. Peradventure there shall be twenty found there.' And He said: 'I will not destroy it for the twenty's sake.' 32 And he said: 'Oh, let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once. Peradventure ten shall be found there.' And He said: 'I will not destroy it for the ten's sake.' 33 And the LORD went His way, as soon as He had left off speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned unto his place.

There were less than ten righteous found in Sodom, because it WAS destroyed.

Lot, his two virgin daughters and his wife were all that were spared.

His two unmarried, virgin daughters were still under his charge (He was still responsible for their actions) and therefore were expected to be obedient to him. His wife was yearning to stay in Sodom, began mourning it's loss, turned back to take a last look at Sodom, and perished.


slaphead I believe it was more out of belief in GOD and respect for His Messengers than fear.smile2

Krimsa's photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:31 AM
There were less than ten righteous found in Sodom, because it WAS destroyed.

Lot, his two virgin daughters and his wife were all that were spared.

His two unmarried, virgin daughters were still under his charge (He was still responsible for their actions) and therefore were expected to be obedient to him. His wife was yearning to stay in Sodom, began mourning it's loss, turned back to take a last look at Sodom, and perished.


That is unacceptable. This man is also referred to as "righteous." Another issue, we are never even told what the name of Lot's wife is. And then God turns her into a pillar of salt. Its atrocious.

Krimsa's photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:34 AM


I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.


:smile: You contradict yourself:smile:



huh How did he have his priorities wrong?huh

:smile: You said he feared God more than the idiots outside of his door:smile:Thats right:smile:So how could he have his priorities wrong yet fear God more than the people outside?huh






He used his virgin daughters in order to appease the mob. It was probably less about protecting male angels than saving his own hide and creating a diversion. Either way its bad, even if he did it to save the angels themselves. He SACRIFICED his own girls for these two strangers. God is not only okay with that, he praises Lot for this deed.

no photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:39 AM


That is unacceptable. This man is also referred to as "righteous." Another issue, we are never even told what the name of Lot's wife is. And then God turns her into a pillar of salt. Its atrocious.



Neither do we know the names of Lot's two younger daughters if my memory serves me correctly....

They too committed a crime against GOD's plan for mankind, by getting pregnant by their father... They were never instructed by GOD to do such an unspeakable thing, they just took it upon themselves.

no photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:42 AM
Edited by CircuitRider on Thu 12/25/08 04:45 AM



I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.


:smile: You contradict yourself:smile:



huh How did he have his priorities wrong?huh

:smile: You said he feared God more than the idiots outside of his door:smile:Thats right:smile:So how could he have his priorities wrong yet fear God more than the people outside?huh






He used his virgin daughters in order to appease the mob. It was probably less about protecting male angels than saving his own hide and creating a diversion. Either way its bad, even if he did it to save the angels themselves. He SACRIFICED his own girls for these two strangers. God is not only okay with that, he praises Lot for this deed.


He did not Sacrifice his daughters, the act of sacrifice was never carried out... He only offered them.

This was in line with Abraham's obedience to be willing to sacrifice his son, Issac.

Krimsa's photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:45 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Thu 12/25/08 04:45 AM



That is unacceptable. This man is also referred to as "righteous." Another issue, we are never even told what the name of Lot's wife is. And then God turns her into a pillar of salt. Its atrocious.



Neither do we know the names of Lot's two younger daughters if my memory serves me correctly....

They too committed a crime against GOD's plan for mankind, by getting pregnant by their father... They were never instructed by GOD to do such an unspeakable thing, they just took it upon themselves.


We .also are never to learn the name of Cain's wife. I guess the bible just cant be bothered to remember the names of females, can it? They are merely supporting characters to these male idiots, if that. I believe the sex with Lot occurred after they were spared didn't it? They would not have been virgins if it occurred prior to the angry mob's arrival. Even if Lot had molested his own daughters prior to the destruction of Sodom of Gomorrah, what does that have to do with anything?

Krimsa's photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:47 AM




I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.


:smile: You contradict yourself:smile:



huh How did he have his priorities wrong?huh

:smile: You said he feared God more than the idiots outside of his door:smile:Thats right:smile:So how could he have his priorities wrong yet fear God more than the people outside?huh






He used his virgin daughters in order to appease the mob. It was probably less about protecting male angels than saving his own hide and creating a diversion. Either way its bad, even if he did it to save the angels themselves. He SACRIFICED his own girls for these two strangers. God is not only okay with that, he praises Lot for this deed.


He did not Sacrifice his daughters, the act of sacrifice was never carried out... He only offered them.

This was in line with Abraham's obedience to be willing to sacrifice his son, Issac.


Lot didnt know that.

no photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:52 AM
Edited by MorningSong on Thu 12/25/08 05:00 AM

I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.


Just a quick note:

The men that Lot

offered his daughters to, were only

interested in men....

and hence, refused Lots daughters.

I am sure Lot was aware of their

interest only in men.

Aterall, he lived there and knew the

people.





no photo
Thu 12/25/08 04:54 AM


We .also are never to learn the name of Cain's wife. I guess the bible just cant be bothered to remember the names of females, can it? They are merely supporting characters to these male idiots, if that. I believe the sex with Lot occurred after they were spared didn't it? They would not have been virgins if it occurred prior to the angry mob's arrival. Even if Lot had molested his own daughters prior to the destruction of Sodom of Gomorrah, what does that have to do with anything?



Lot didn't molest them, they got him drunk and committed the act while he was asleep..


no photo
Thu 12/25/08 05:05 AM
Edited by CircuitRider on Thu 12/25/08 05:06 AM

Lot didnt know that.


No he couldn't have, this all happened before Issac was born. Abraham was 99 years old when Sodom and Gommorrah were destroyed, 100 when Issac was born.

Krimsa's photo
Thu 12/25/08 05:07 AM



We .also are never to learn the name of Cain's wife. I guess the bible just cant be bothered to remember the names of females, can it? They are merely supporting characters to these male idiots, if that. I believe the sex with Lot occurred after they were spared didn't it? They would not have been virgins if it occurred prior to the angry mob's arrival. Even if Lot had molested his own daughters prior to the destruction of Sodom of Gomorrah, what does that have to do with anything?



Lot didn't molest them, they got him drunk and committed the act while he was asleep..




So you are blaming this act on his daughters even though it occurred after Lot offered them to the mob? That doesn't make any sense. You are in effect saying "those whores, see what they ended up doing anyway?"

Krimsa's photo
Thu 12/25/08 05:08 AM


Lot didnt know that.


No he couldn't have, this all happened before Issac was born. Abraham was 99 years old when Sodom and Gommorrah were destroyed, 100 when Issac was born.


Point?

Krimsa's photo
Thu 12/25/08 05:10 AM


I think that he was a little more afraid of God than the idiots outside his door, but I also think that he had his priorities all wrong. I don't remember it saying he was righteous, but Abraham did ask God to spare the city etc... I think he was saved as a favor to Abraham.


Just a quick note:

The men that Lot

offered his daughters to, were only

interested in men....

and hence, refused Lots daughters.

I am sure Lot was aware of their

interest only in men.

Aterall, he lived there and knew the

people.







A rapist is a rapist and Lot would have had no way of knowing if they would not have taken him up on his offer if they wanted the angels but could not get to them. Thats another Christian argument that is only a ridiculous attempt at making excuses for Lot's reprehensible behavior.