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| Topic: Christians... | |
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thats it!! Jesus was a dinosaur!! Or is that Xenu? Or is xenu realy jesus? Oh man i'm getting confused. |
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thats it!! Jesus was a dinosaur!! Or is that Xenu? Or is xenu realy jesus? Oh man i'm getting confused.  That is Raptorjesus
 This is Xenu
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oh ok, got it.
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...two questions. 1: Dinosaurs. ? 2: God is omnipotent. He created free will. But by definition he is everywhere all the time, and therefore exists in the future right now...what's the point in His guidance in our choices if he knows what we're going to do already? In fact, doesn't this make free will...a lie? In which case, doesn't this make all our lives on earth before we go off into the nicely black and white heaven and hell a sort of sick side show that must get pretty boring knowing exactly what we're going to do all the time? 1. That's not a question. 2. Your question is based on a misunderstanding. God's guidance in no way amounts to a violation of our free will. If someone encouraged you to buy a Sony TV, but you bought RCA instead, your free will hasn't been changed. God encourages us to do the right thing through our conscience, but we have the ability to do as we will regardless of God's wishes. As far as why God tries to guide us despite his knowledge of the future, that is also a question created due to your misunderstanding. You are close, but you need to make a couple steps. Think about this: When God created the universe, his process of interacting with the universe was complete. Our dimension of time only exists in our universe, so when God finished creation, the universe had a beginning, middle and end. God's actions were included in the universe as part of the design. It's a hard concept to get your mind around, but you have to remember that time doesn't apply to God unless God wants it to. So while God's actions with Moses happened after Moses was 40 years old, from God's perspective those actions were done simultaneous to the creation of the universe. Jesus is called "The lamb slain from the foundation of the earth." in the New Testament. This confirms a four dimensional understanding of the creation of the universe, because what that verse is saying is that Jesus' crucifixion happened at the same time at the creation of the earth from the perspective of an observer outside of our dimension of time. Thanks for explaining the physics to that Abracadabra guy so I didn't have to. 1. Come on now, everyone else was playing along. No one seems to have answered it yet though... 2. About the most logical response I've...well, ever had from anyone who wasn't an atheist. Still seems to go with what I'm saying though...if He has already created the universe with its beginning, middle and end, then where does free will come into it? Everything is predefined still. God's interaction with our universe, as you put it, is complete. Please run me through what you think I'm missing,its good getting an intelligent reply for once. P.S love raptorjesus |
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Thu 05/28/09 12:36 AM
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...two questions. 1: Dinosaurs. ? 2: God is omnipotent. He created free will. But by definition he is everywhere all the time, and therefore exists in the future right now...what's the point in His guidance in our choices if he knows what we're going to do already? In fact, doesn't this make free will...a lie? In which case, doesn't this make all our lives on earth before we go off into the nicely black and white heaven and hell a sort of sick side show that must get pretty boring knowing exactly what we're going to do all the time? 1. for alot of your fundies that think the earth is only 6,000 yrs. old then Dinosaurs either are a mystery, did not realy exist, or they roamed the earth with man. And it does not matter to them if we can prove all of them false. Alot of your more thinking christians understand and except evolution. And how is it you know that there aren't dinasaurs on the planet even as we speak? Let's say for the moment that dinasaurs roamed the planet with man. What is your proof they did not? And most thinking Christians bother to examine the "evidence" for evolution, and rather than take a human's subjective opinion about their observations - await the "proof". 2. Yes if there is a god and he knows all then there can not be a free will it is predestination. So there is ethier a free will or an all knowing god you can not have both. You're premise is false. Just because God knows the choices that man makes does not mean man is without choice. It can be easily demonstrated that man has the freedom of choice (as opposed to free will. No one has a free will) and that God is fully aware of the choices made. Since God is not contrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was". |
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You're premise is false. Just because God knows the choices that man makes does not mean man is without choice. It can be easily demonstrated that man has the freedom of choice (as opposed to free will. No one has a free will) and that God is fully aware of the choices made. Since God is not contrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was".
Eljay you might read a book called "The power of Will." It is in public domain. It is very interesting. The will, is just the will. It is the power of conscious choice... not just choice. It is the power to direct yourself and your thoughts and your attention to what you choose. Some people will use their will (conscious choice) and others will not. People who do not use their will are basically "unconscious" of why they do the things they do or what the consequences of their actions are. They simply follow their genetic programing, or instinct responding to stimuli. You make the statement above that no one has "free will." Why would you make such a statement when you don't seem to be very clear on what the will even is. Yes we all make choices. We don't purposely make bad choices. All bad choices are unconscious choices. When you make conscious choices, you have a specific goal or outcome in mind. This is called living deliberately or 'on purpose.' When you live deliberately you make conscious choices, and you use your will to direct your attention and thoughts towards a specific result or outcome. For example: if you want to loose weight, you don't make the choice to eat lots of cookies and cake and junk food if you are using your conscious will. This choice would take you away from your desired outcome. This is why people say they "don't have the will power" to make a better choice. So they eat what they want and they don't consider the outcome or consequences. They don't even think about it. They may just sit there stuffing their face watching television not even paying attention to what they are eating. That is acting unconsciously. Yes we have a will. Most people don't use it. Most people just follow their programming. |
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You're premise is false. Just because God knows the choices that man makes does not mean man is without choice. It can be easily demonstrated that man has the freedom of choice (as opposed to free will. No one has a free will) and that God is fully aware of the choices made. Since God is not contrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was".
Eljay you might read a book called "The power of Will." It is in public domain. It is very interesting. The will, is just the will. It is the power of conscious choice... not just choice. It is the power to direct yourself and your thoughts and your attention to what you choose. Some people will use their will (conscious choice) and others will not. People who do not use their will are basically "unconscious" of why they do the things they do or what the consequences of their actions are. They simply follow their genetic programing, or instinct responding to stimuli. You make the statement above that no one has "free will." Why would you make such a statement when you don't seem to be very clear on what the will even is. Yes we all make choices. We don't purposely make bad choices. All bad choices are unconscious choices. When you make conscious choices, you have a specific goal or outcome in mind. This is called living deliberately or 'on purpose.' When you live deliberately you make conscious choices, and you use your will to direct your attention and thoughts towards a specific result or outcome. For example: if you want to loose weight, you don't make the choice to eat lots of cookies and cake and junk food if you are using your conscious will. This choice would take you away from your desired outcome. This is why people say they "don't have the will power" to make a better choice. So they eat what they want and they don't consider the outcome or consequences. They don't even think about it. They may just sit there stuffing their face watching television not even paying attention to what they are eating. That is acting unconsciously. Yes we have a will. Most people don't use it. Most people just follow their programming. Jeannie; If we are viewing "will" as being defined as concious choice rather than "desire" - than I agree with you. The key word here is choice. The power of which has, and always will remain with the individual. Even following a programmed decision process is a choice unto itself. I always prefer to use the term "freedo of choice" rather than "free will" because the term will can refer to a number of meanings, whereas one can rearly misinterpret choice - especially in reference to biblical topics. |
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god debris:A Thought Experiment by Scott Adams is a good book.
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 05/29/09 07:35 AM
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You're premise is false. Just because God knows the choices that man makes does not mean man is without choice. It can be easily demonstrated that man has the freedom of choice (as opposed to free will. No one has a free will) and that God is fully aware of the choices made. Since God is not contrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was".
Eljay you might read a book called "The power of Will." It is in public domain. It is very interesting. The will, is just the will. It is the power of conscious choice... not just choice. It is the power to direct yourself and your thoughts and your attention to what you choose. Some people will use their will (conscious choice) and others will not. People who do not use their will are basically "unconscious" of why they do the things they do or what the consequences of their actions are. They simply follow their genetic programing, or instinct responding to stimuli. You make the statement above that no one has "free will." Why would you make such a statement when you don't seem to be very clear on what the will even is. Yes we all make choices. We don't purposely make bad choices. All bad choices are unconscious choices. When you make conscious choices, you have a specific goal or outcome in mind. This is called living deliberately or 'on purpose.' When you live deliberately you make conscious choices, and you use your will to direct your attention and thoughts towards a specific result or outcome. For example: if you want to loose weight, you don't make the choice to eat lots of cookies and cake and junk food if you are using your conscious will. This choice would take you away from your desired outcome. This is why people say they "don't have the will power" to make a better choice. So they eat what they want and they don't consider the outcome or consequences. They don't even think about it. They may just sit there stuffing their face watching television not even paying attention to what they are eating. That is acting unconsciously. Yes we have a will. Most people don't use it. Most people just follow their programming. Jeannie; If we are viewing "will" as being defined as concious choice rather than "desire" - than I agree with you. The key word here is choice. The power of which has, and always will remain with the individual. Even following a programmed decision process is a choice unto itself. I always prefer to use the term "freedo of choice" rather than "free will" because the term will can refer to a number of meanings, whereas one can rearly misinterpret choice - especially in reference to biblical topics. RE your quote: "....the term will can refer to a number of meanings, whereas one can rearly misinterpret choice - especially in reference to biblical topics." The term "Will" that we are referring to as used in "free will" is massively misused and misunderstood. The will is not conscious choice itself, it is the director within that decides where you will place your attention and what choices you will make based on a clear understanding of the goal or of what you desire the outcome of your actions to be. The will is the decider. And yes, the decider is free. The Will is definitely is not "desire." It is the person's power to direct themselves and mostly to direct their attention and thoughts. The will is the director within. It could be called the soul of the individual itself. The will is the "observer" and the "thinking center." If the will does not direct your thoughts and feelings then you are following programing and are easy prey to the power of suggestions of others and you are just drifting from one reaction to another, with no real control over your life. Desire has to do with preferences. What do you prefer and why? It is a necessary thing to have desire because it inspires action. Desire for life, desire for health, desire for more, all inspire progress and expansion. (Desire is not a bad thing unless it is destructive.) |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Fri 05/29/09 02:18 PM
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. Eljay said . . . . Since God is not constrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was". Right so he made you to go to hell, then sent himself down to die but then the best he could come up with to spread the word was word of mouth . . . pretty pathetic, he creates the vast majority of us to go to hell . . . .
Yep pretty sloppy. |
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NOW is all you have!
Think of a video game if you will....all your moves and possible outcomes are programmed already.Now it's just a choice of how you will play the game! |
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. Eljay said . . . . Since God is not constrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was". Right so he made you to go to hell, then sent himself down to die but then the best he could come up with to spread the word was word of mouth . . . pretty pathetic, he creates the vast majority of us to go to hell . . . .
Yep pretty sloppy. If an all knowing entity "God" exists; and this "God" is not constrained by time, it is because time does not exist outside of the domain of a spacetime universe. Only if God is within the spacetime universe would he or she look at a past or future. Assuming God is all knowing, he or she could only know what is happening NOW and why. God would have no concept of past or future, only NOW. But I don't think there is a single entity embodied anywhere that is all knowing while embodied. Only the intelligent universe as a whole could have access to all information. I realize most people will not see the significance of this. |
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Dinosaurs are everywhere. We call them birds today. Look it up.
Free will is the choice to make infinite choices, not finite. I am making one now. |
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Dinosaurs are everywhere. We call them birds today. Look it up. Free will is the choice to make infinite choices, not finite. I am making one now.  Yep and parrots are nasty mean little birds too. They get attached to their human caretakers and very jealous. My sister had a crazy little parrot who saw her hugging her sister goodby and flew across the room, landing on her head and tried to bite the other sister.
Very smart but temperamental little creatures. |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Sat 05/30/09 06:30 AM
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Here in Miami I have the privilige to look at little green parrots fighting for space on a tree everyday. Loud also. I don't need a alarm clock anymore
http://www.quirkcollective.com/images/parrots_000.jpg |
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. Eljay said . . . . Since God is not constrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was". Right so he made you to go to hell, then sent himself down to die but then the best he could come up with to spread the word was word of mouth . . . pretty pathetic, he creates the vast majority of us to go to hell . . . .
Yep pretty sloppy. Actually, that's not quite accurate. He did not create people to go to hell, else everyone would. It isn't God's choice that people go to hell - it's their choice. He doesn't make the decision for anyone. So I guess you could say that if one finds themself in hell - it's because they were a fool while they were on earth. That's what's sloppy. |
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. Eljay said . . . . Since God is not constrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was". Right so he made you to go to hell, then sent himself down to die but then the best he could come up with to spread the word was word of mouth . . . pretty pathetic, he creates the vast majority of us to go to hell . . . .
Yep pretty sloppy. If an all knowing entity "God" exists; and this "God" is not constrained by time, it is because time does not exist outside of the domain of a spacetime universe. Only if God is within the spacetime universe would he or she look at a past or future. Assuming God is all knowing, he or she could only know what is happening NOW and why. God would have no concept of past or future, only NOW. But I don't think there is a single entity embodied anywhere that is all knowing while embodied. Only the intelligent universe as a whole could have access to all information. I realize most people will not see the significance of this. That doesn't make any sense. If God is all knowing they don't know what is happening beyond now. You're contradicting yourself. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 05/31/09 03:21 PM
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. Eljay said . . . . Since God is not constrained by time, an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was". Right so he made you to go to hell, then sent himself down to die but then the best he could come up with to spread the word was word of mouth . . . pretty pathetic, he creates the vast majority of us to go to hell . . . .
Yep pretty sloppy. If an all knowing entity "God" exists; and this "God" is not constrained by time, it is because time does not exist outside of the domain of a spacetime universe. Only if God is within the spacetime universe would he or she look at a past or future. Assuming God is all knowing, he or she could only know what is happening NOW and why. God would have no concept of past or future, only NOW. But I don't think there is a single entity embodied anywhere that is all knowing while embodied. Only the intelligent universe as a whole could have access to all information. I realize most people will not see the significance of this. That doesn't make any sense. If God is all knowing they don't know what is happening beyond now. You're contradicting yourself. Well I did say that I realize most people will not see the significance of this. You said "since God is not constrained by time...(which is an assumption on your part.)...an action does not have to occur before He is aware of what it "was"." I say: IF there is a single embodied entity that is "all knowing" (Big if here) who is not constrained by 'time' you claim he would know what you will choose to do tomarrow.. BUT there are any number of things you might do tomorrow. If this all knowing God is aware of all of your possible choices, and the outcomes, (which he would have to be, given he is "all knowing")then what he 'knows' is what you MIGHT choose to do and the consequences of each of those choices. He would not know which choice you will make until you make it. You make choices NOW not in the future. The reason is because this God would only know NOW because now is all that exists. The future does not exist as anything except a probability in the mind worlds. God does not know the future or the past as they are only dreams and probabilities within the mind worlds. (The universal mind) They do not truly exist as a point of power for a thinking center operating in them because thinking centers (observers) only operate in the present. They don't operate in the past or the future. I assert that there is no all knowing entity who knows what I will do in the future. I further back this statement up because if this God knew what everyone would choose to do, then there would be no point in converting people to serve him, as he would already know who will and won't choose to serve him. If such an entity exists, he does not know what you will choose. |
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We all have the free will to accept God loves us. Which is what He really wants. Then you can have all the fun of free will you want cos you then know what choices to make. That is true freedom rather than being constained by chaos. Love is freedom.
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do u feed them to lions?
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