"Which is what He really wants."


So do you claim to know what God really wants?

My ex girlfriend's sister's parrot Jerry, eyed my little toe for awhile. He then came over as if to make friends, then pounced and did his best to bite my little toe off. I now have greater appreciation for their intellect and less for their compassion.

I fail to see the significance in contradiction.



It's not an assumption on my part, I'm merely stating a biblical concept - and that is where the idea of "all knowing" comes from. If you're going to state a biblical concept as an a priori than it helps to understand that concept. Else, you are not talking about God, in which case - who are you talking about?



Not quite. The omniscience (all knowing) of which we are speaking is not confined by time. Therefore - the knowledge is in everything that will ever happen - as the only constraint of "now" is on those who dwell on this planet. Omniscience already knows all from the end of time, backwards to the beginning. Therefore they know what has occured, and what "might" have occured is irrelevant, because it doesn't exist. It is only in the mind as a possibility, and there is no "knowing" in possibility only assumptions.



Actually, since I strongly believe you and I fall woefully short of the mind of God, your stating with certainty that God does not know the future is delusional at best. Perhaps you consider the thousands of prophecies of scripture that were fullfilled centuries after the prophets died - coincidence. That still does not demonstrate that God is unaware of what has happened in the future. For despite the unsurity of decisiveness of man in the present, whatever happens in the future is going to happen, and for an entity that is aware of all of the circumstances surrounding every decision that is to be made, knowing what the eventual outcome will be is not hard to reason that an omnicient being already knew what the choices are (were). For all of the logic that you are attempting to assert - time is an asssumed premise as a constraint. If we remove time from your argument - you have no foundation to support your conclusions.



But you have nothing to base your assertoin on than mere desire on your part. And if life has demonstrated anything - it is that just desiring something be true, does not make it so.



Why not? And he doesn't convert people to serve him. Where do you get that idea. Worship him, perhaps - but he doesn't convert anyone to serve him, everyone does already, whether they choose to or not. For no one can do anything apart from God. Man is incapable of even breathing on his own. If you think this is true - attempt to stop breathing by shear will. Do it for - oh, say an hour. Then you can claim that there's no entity you're serving.

And despite what you may think, God knows every action you have enacted, every choice you've made, are making, or will make. If you do not think this is true, than you're just in denial of defining God. All you're doing is defining a God that cannot exist. Anyone can do that. Perhaps it might be easier to attempt to understand the God that already exists.

Yes.

That doesn't seem quite accurate. Isn't the default option for all human beings hell? Don't you have to choose heaven in order to not go to hell? Didn't Jesus say if you are not with me you are against me? So isn't it fair to say that we were created with the hell switch toggled to the on position?

No. We are created with the heaven switch on. At the point that the individual "sins" (does wrong, whatever your term for falling short of doing what is right is) THEY flip the switch. Once the individual flips that switch, separating them from God (thus not losing their ticket to paradise, if you will) there is only one way to flip the switch back on, and it has nothing to do with how many "good works" one does - but in recognizing that faith in Jesus is the switch. It's not about quantity, but quality.

So - going to hell is not a decision by God, it's only a fullfillment of the choice that an individual makes. It's all about the heart. Either one recognizes the place God has in existance, and how they're in relation to that, or they decide for themselves that it's all about them, and how they percieve God in relation to thier reality - as to where they'll end up. The choice is entirely in the hands of man.

That would be a contradiction to the original sin idea wouldn't it? How can you call sin a choice if no one can avoid it?

Then you must be claiming to be God or to be a person to whom God has spoken. A prophet perhaps.

God is a salami sandwhich!

I was gonna reply... with some amazing explaination, but Im so stuffed... full of spaghetti.. Oh.. blahhhh.....


I spose what can muster from my belief is.. whatever he knows, doesnt mean he wants to stir the pot.. weather he exists, or not.. whatever, if he exists, or she, or it.. if thats the school of thought.. I believe thats possible.

O God, God of Gods, Lord of Lords, Host of hosts..

Whatever ya got.. do me a favor, and help me please not be so full!

Blehh!

If someone could send me some positive energy, or thought..

Thanks.

PS. Hey Jeannie.. Ive been trying for the longest to find a tactful way to ask this.. but.. is that a pilgrim hat for thanksgiving, or is that a witches hat? orr.. what? educate me please. xoxxo

Who indeed. You have not yet defined "god" to our mutual satisfaction. So I guess this argument is a moot point.

Assuming God is an entity (apart from other entities and apart from us) and assuming God is all knowing and not 'constrained by time' then in order to make such statements as you do, you would also have to understand time. Which you don't.

I'm not sure I understand time either on the human consciousness level. I do know that I don't exist in the past, I only think about the past and I don't exist in the future, I only think about the future.

I do have an idea of what does exist, exists in the present moment. All decisions are made in the present moment. One might predict the outcome of an event, or decision but one cannot know what choices are made in the moment until they are made.

Not even an entity you define as God.

That is my conclusion. I don't think you can present any evidence to the contrary, so I guess this discussion fails on premise that I don't accept your interpretation of Biblical scripture.



That's funny since you have not even defined 'God' and cannot prove such an entity exists, if it is indeed an entity.



No, I consider them to be fiction.



I have already removed time from the argument, because it does not exist in reality. If each thinking center (person) has free will to decide or act, no all knowing entity identified as "God" will know that decision or choice until it is made in the present. (NOW) Which is all that exists.

The future cannot be known because it does not exist, is all I am saying.



That I 'desire' a thing is something that is beyond your ability to know.

I don't 'desire' anything to be true or not true. Truth is truth. To resist "What Is" only causes pain and discomfort and misery. So, what ever is.... IS.

I am just telling you what I think IS.

I would never claim to be God! Yes He has spoken to me but wouldn't consider myself to be a prophet. But I have seen Him. And He/She/It/Alanis Morisette is beautiful. The most beautiful vision I have ever had.

There are many beautiful entities in the multiverse and many of them will claim to be "GOD" totally convincing their beholders.

One day you will realize that you are also God and that God lives and has life in and through YOU..

I would call that the Holy Spirit. The thing about seeing God was not what He looked like but the way He looked and smiled at me.

That's when I realised He loves me. That's when Jesus began to heal me. I've seen him too.

Yes, I have seen that too. It was a spiritual awakening, and appeared as a light in the room. I have not concluded who or what it was though.

I expect it's great fun trying to work it out though :)

I don't know about that. I accept what IS. I don't believe every beautiful vision I see or assume it must be Jesus. I do know that love is the way.

yes. love is the way. That's all we need to know. Doesn't mean it's easy though. Any kind of vision or meaning of it can be considered subjective but it doesn't make it any less real. Problems arise when people try to force thier own subjective reality on another person. Which is why there are so many divisions in religion. And then spirituality becomes political as it did when the bible was written under emperor Constantine.

I don't consider 'spirituality' to be political. RELIGION is political. And it still is.

Why do you consider that "love" is not easy? I think it is very easy.

Hey, don't be mean to the bean!It's a witches hat of course. And it's very cute.