Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Heaven Wars 2.... Attack of the Jesus
MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Sun 11/30/08 03:13 PM Edited by MirrorMirror on Sun 11/30/08 03:14 PM
Humans have free will.Humans have creativity.Humans created the belief in a messiah(hero).Humans asked for a savior. Humans prayed for this.And this is what was fullfilled.All of this was asked for and set into place by humans.

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 04:00 PM
"That's what the Cathers believed." Its also what the New Testament says. A lot of people seem to be incapable of understanding this because it sounds so different than what they have always been told. yeppers, it is very hard to wrap our heads around a new Idea. Like maybe if we eat a tomato we won't die from it. Humans used to believe that tomatos would kill you if you took a bite of one!

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 11/30/08 04:11 PM
Obedience is better than sacrifice. God gave man a list of rules to live by. Man screwed up said list. God saw man screw up said rules. Jesus being with God seeing man screw up said rules said I will go and be both the rules AND the sacrifice. Now man has the choice to accept Jesus and be adopted back into God's love or to continue living without but only for a period of time. When God decides all the things he has said have come to fulfillment we will have to account for the things we done in our lives. "DayBrightener" which set of rules and laws are you referring to ..are you referring to The Laws of The Old Testament? or only the ones in the New Testament it appears they are different sects of Christians ..some believe in The Old Testament and the god of Abraham and some only believe in Jesus

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Sun 11/30/08 04:12 PM
"That's what the Cathers believed." Its also what the New Testament says. A lot of people seem to be incapable of understanding this because it sounds so different than what they have always been told. yeppers, it is very hard to wrap our heads around a new Idea. Like maybe if we eat a tomato we won't die from it. Humans used to believe that tomatos would kill you if you took a bite of one! Well, there have always been people that realized this, its just that the majority of people have been told different their whole lives.

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 04:28 PM Edited by martymark on Sun 11/30/08 04:32 PM
"That's what the Cathers believed." Its also what the New Testament says. A lot of people seem to be incapable of understanding this because it sounds so different than what they have always been told. yeppers, it is very hard to wrap our heads around a new Idea. Like maybe if we eat a tomato we won't die from it. Humans used to believe that tomatos would kill you if you took a bite of one! Well, there have always been people that realized this, its just that the majority of people have been told different their whole lives. ya, I was one of those who had the hell fire and brimstone thing crammed down my throat as a child so much that it scared the hell outa me...no pun there...!I was so scared I couldn't sleep sometimes after a Sunday of "church". God is not a torturer. The guys that preach that crap need to have there head examined. I can not believe these grown people actually believe that just because A King said that something is Gods word that they are willing to believe it without looking at what was really being said in the first place. It's almost as though they have no respect for God in that they don't think that they have a brain of their own.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 11/30/08 04:29 PM
"That's what the Cathers believed." Its also what the New Testament says. Most people do not get this. "MirrorMirror" it the Cathers believed that what was in The Old Testament was false ..then that would mean that the coming of a Messiah was also false since it's in The Old Testament also to say that God/Yahweh set forth no laws in The Old Testament would mean that Yahweh was a God of Pantheism The False God of the Earth can appear to us humans as the True God of Heaven. People have them all mixed up and always have. I am familiar with the Cathars but Im not arguing the specifics of their beliefs. I am just telling you what you are starting to realize for yourself. There is a True G-d in Heaven and a False God of the Earth. A lot of what we are calling "God" is actually the False God. Most humans serve the False God and do not realize it. That is what I am saying. If you continue to ponder this line of reasoning you will begin to understand in ways that I can't explain to you. "MirrorMirror" Jesus himself acknowledge the laws of The Old Testament by telling the people that he did not come to change any of them ..so doesn't this means The Old Testament has Jesus's stamp of approval and to deny The Old Testament is to say that Jesus was being less than truthful when he spoke to the people of his intentions Im saying that our interpretations of it may be wrong and always have been.It goes well beyond the bible, into everything we do. Jesus did not come to change our (all of humanity) beliefs of a savior, rather to fullfill that belief. The beliefs of a savior is in ALL cultures (in various forms). "MirrorMirror"..if every culture have Gods or saviors it's called having hope but only thing having hope prove is the existence of dispair also if the interpetations of The Old Testament wasn't right and were leading Man astray then Jesus would not have approved of them ..wouldn't he had denounce The Laws set forth by God at that point in time ..which means it may be The New Testament that are leading Man astray

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 04:38 PM Edited by martymark on Sun 11/30/08 04:38 PM
"That's what the Cathers believed." Its also what the New Testament says. Most people do not get this. "MirrorMirror" it the Cathers believed that what was in The Old Testament was false ..then that would mean that the coming of a Messiah was also false since it's in The Old Testament also to say that God/Yahweh set forth no laws in The Old Testament would mean that Yahweh was a God of Pantheism The False God of the Earth can appear to us humans as the True God of Heaven. People have them all mixed up and always have. I am familiar with the Cathars but Im not arguing the specifics of their beliefs. I am just telling you what you are starting to realize for yourself. There is a True G-d in Heaven and a False God of the Earth. A lot of what we are calling "God" is actually the False God. Most humans serve the False God and do not realize it. That is what I am saying. If you continue to ponder this line of reasoning you will begin to understand in ways that I can't explain to you. "MirrorMirror" Jesus himself acknowledge the laws of The Old Testament by telling the people that he did not come to change any of them ..so doesn't this means The Old Testament has Jesus's stamp of approval and to deny The Old Testament is to say that Jesus was being less than truthful when he spoke to the people of his intentions Im saying that our interpretations of it may be wrong and always have been.It goes well beyond the bible, into everything we do. Jesus did not come to change our (all of humanity) beliefs of a savior, rather to fullfill that belief. The beliefs of a savior is in ALL cultures (in various forms). "MirrorMirror"..if every culture have Gods or saviors it's called having hope but only thing having hope prove is the existence of dispair also if the interpetations of The Old Testament wasn't right and were leading Man astray then Jesus would not have approved of them ..wouldn't he had denounce The Laws set forth by God at that point in time ..which means it may be The New Testament that are leading Man astray where does it state that Jesus approved of the Old testement scriptures? I have never found where he maid any such proclamation! I really am curious if I missed something.

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 04:45 PM
Obedience is better than sacrifice. God gave man a list of rules to live by. Man screwed up said list. God saw man screw up said rules. Jesus being with God seeing man screw up said rules said I will go and be both the rules AND the sacrifice. Now man has the choice to accept Jesus and be adopted back into God's love or to continue living without but only for a period of time. When God decides all the things he has said have come to fulfillment we will have to account for the things we done in our lives. I wonder what God decides about people whom work for companies which do not treat all of their employees with equality. Will he just so Oh that was OK, you needed the money more than that janitor dude, go ahead and take your palce with the sheep, we will send that hard working janiter to graze with the goats! come on now! If any one believes that, I must ask you if you would want that God to judge all of your loved ones?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 11/30/08 04:51 PM
where does it state that Jesus approved of the Old testement scriptures? I have never found where he maid any such proclamation! I really am curious if I missed something. "MartyMark" it's simple logic ...Jesus said that he wasn't there to change the laws ...if his mission was to place people on the path to true rightousness then to denounce those laws would have been part of that mission ...since Jesus didn't denounce those laws by yet acknowledge their existence means Jesus approved of that path

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 05:44 PM
where does it state that Jesus approved of the Old testement scriptures? I have never found where he maid any such proclamation! I really am curious if I missed something. "MartyMark" it's simple logic ...Jesus said that he wasn't there to change the laws ...if his mission was to place people on the path to true rightousness then to denounce those laws would have been part of that mission ...since Jesus didn't denounce those laws by yet acknowledge their existence means Jesus approved of that path Funches, Jesus was a lot smarter than to say things that would get him killed before he could accomplish at least what he came hear for. At least give the man some credit for what he did. Stayed alive long enough and was smart enough to change the entire world without ever killing anyone!

Daybrightener Joined Wed 11/19/08 Posts: 254	Sun 11/30/08 06:57 PM
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There are many more but you get the gist.

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 07:00 PM
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There are many more but you get the gist. seems to me if we really do love our fellow man as ourselves, the rest are all a mute point!

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 11/30/08 07:02 PM
where does it state that Jesus approved of the Old testement scriptures? I have never found where he maid any such proclamation! I really am curious if I missed something. "MartyMark" it's simple logic ...Jesus said that he wasn't there to change the laws ...if his mission was to place people on the path to true rightousness then to denounce those laws would have been part of that mission ...since Jesus didn't denounce those laws by yet acknowledge their existence means Jesus approved of that path Funches, Jesus was a lot smarter than to say things that would get him killed before he could accomplish at least what he came hear for. At least give the man some credit for what he did. Stayed alive long enough and was smart enough to change the entire world without ever killing anyone! "MartyMark" so Jesus used deception to acheive his objective ...which is no different then what those in power did to manipulate the people

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 07:06 PM Edited by martymark on Sun 11/30/08 07:06 PM
where does it state that Jesus approved of the Old testement scriptures? I have never found where he maid any such proclamation! I really am curious if I missed something. "MartyMark" it's simple logic ...Jesus said that he wasn't there to change the laws ...if his mission was to place people on the path to true rightousness then to denounce those laws would have been part of that mission ...since Jesus didn't denounce those laws by yet acknowledge their existence means Jesus approved of that path Funches, Jesus was a lot smarter than to say things that would get him killed before he could accomplish at least what he came hear for. At least give the man some credit for what he did. Stayed alive long enough and was smart enough to change the entire world without ever killing anyone! "MartyMark" so Jesus used deception to acheive his objective ...which is no different then what those in power did to manipulate the people no way did I suggest such a thing, he was just smart enough, to say the truth in a way that it would not get him killed immediatly!

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 11/30/08 07:23 PM
no way did I suggest such a thing, he was just smart enough, to say the truth in a way that it would not get him killed immediatly! "MartyMark" but you did suggest such a thing ...you were just doing like Jesus did by trying to be smart enough to say it in a way that it wouldn't seem like deception ....but it was Jesus lied to the people because as you said...he was in fear of immediately losing his life ..which means if you pick up a big old stone Jesus would lie to stay alive ou ou ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Sun 11/30/08 08:21 PM Edited by martymark on Sun 11/30/08 08:23 PM
no way did I suggest such a thing, he was just smart enough, to say the truth in a way that it would not get him killed immediatly! "MartyMark" but you did suggest such a thing ...you were just doing like Jesus did by trying to be smart enough to say it in a way that it wouldn't seem like deception ....but it was Jesus lied to the people because as you said...he was in fear of immediately losing his life ..which means if you pick up a big old stone Jesus would lie to stay alive ou ou ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh take it however you want, it is obvious I will not be able to change your views on the subject. and this "as you said" thing is a lie! I did not say what you imply! I wish you well

MorningSong Joined Mon 02/11/08 Posts: 4505	Mon 12/01/08 01:57 AM Edited by MorningSong on Mon 12/01/08 02:53 AM
Funches.... Do you know WHY all the destruction was seen in the old testament? After man sinned , God ALLOWED man to do things his own way ..... and God also gave the Law..... to allow man to try and keep the Law....... but already KNOWING man could NEVER be able to keep the law. God also allowed man to do it his own way.... so man could see that by doing things his own way, without God... that it would lead only to destruction. So Then God ... in His Love and Mercy , looked upon floundering humanity ... who was trying to do things his own way... and provided a BETTER WAY for man, by Giving Us His Son Christ Jesus... Who would bear the sins of the world..... so that man would not have to bear the weight of what sin did to him ... anymore!!!! And not only that , Funches... Jesus also made a way for man to be Now be able to come back into Fellowship with God the Father...once more. God did All this for Us .... out of His Great Great Great Love for Us, Funches!!! GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE!!! (JOHN 3:16) ...................... (The gospel message is sooo simple really...but man just makes it complicated!!!)

keepthehope Joined Sun 09/02/07 Posts: 4263	Mon 12/01/08 03:22 AM
Jesus came to earth the first time to show God's love, but He also said that there would come a time when He would come back to judge. There are times as parents when we need to love our children. Hold them, cuddle them, play with them. Then there are times that we have to punish them. Does that make us hypocrits? No, it does not. Why should it be any different for Jesus and God? There is a time for everything.

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Mon 12/01/08 03:25 AM Edited by martymark on Mon 12/01/08 03:28 AM
oops. I dbl posted, sorry

martymark Joined Tue 11/18/08 Posts: 1105	Mon 12/01/08 03:26 AM Edited by martymark on Mon 12/01/08 03:45 AM
yep, you are so right Morningsong. I like an old saying we used to see a lot in the world, not so much anymore. "let go and let God". It describes what should be the easiest thing for us to do in our lives, and yet people are all bent up about being better than someone else to the point of driving people away from accepting Jesus, with their God damn crap. If that offends anyone, good. figure it out, there are some things that really are God damned! (I was not using the lords name in vain here). Like the look of self pride for instance, both physical and mental included! The thing God hates the most is a proud and haughty look, In that statement in the scriptures it does not distinguish between physical and mental imagery!