Holy ****...



Di isn't quite as complacent with ignorance as I am...

Red,

Some people, only a few, will understand the things I have been saying. It is to those people I am speaking. If what I say rubs you the wrong way, then what I say IS NOT FOR YOU.

And...I don't get angry when people question me about what I believe, I am happy to answer sincere questions. But you are not questioning because you are interested, you are grilling me because you are angry about what I have said.

Save your anger for someone who deserves it. I don't.

But you probably would not be bombarding me with all of these questions if you had read "The Law of Attraction" or "The Science of Getting Rich" so I realize that it is not really this kind of information you are after. You don't want the answers to these questions, you are simply venting anger about something because you don't understand it and you don't want to understand it and you are challenging me to prove something.

I have always said that Proof is only a matter of convincing someone to believe something. That is not my agenda.

I share my ideas and my beliefs. (I am not telling anyone that they are doomed to hell if they don't believe the way I do.)

They are called IDEAS.


JB

Mirror, I am still waiting and anticipating your description of Omega Point.

alpha point - beginning

omega point - END

I know its the end. The end of what? Describe it please.

It's the end of EVERYTHING!!

and the beginning of "nothingness" -



(_e=mc2_) -> TRIBO <- (_E=mc2_)

Proof for my beliefs?

Red, this is a religious forum and I think this is a very appropriate place to share and state my personal beliefs and ideas,~~ and with conviction if I so choose.

Where spiritual ideas are concerned there is hardly ever proof, so I don't know why atheists or scientific minded people keep demanding it.

This is not a science forum, it is a religious forum. I am only expressing my ideas. I don't have proof for my ideas or beliefs. I have reasons for them, but not proof.

I have never even considered myself to be a religious person but I do believe in spirit and I do have my own personal philosophical ideas.

I think am beginning to understand how the Christians on this forum must feel when they attempt to share their beliefs, and I don't consider myself any where near being a "Bible Thumping" Christian.

But with this experience I have learned something extremely valuable. I thank you for that.

I apologize to you, Red, for sounding like a fundamentalist Bible thumper, and I apologize to all the Christians on this forum for ever attempting to dissuade you from your beliefs.

I had no right to do that and I am deeply sorry. I have learned something from all of you.

I think my work here is done.

So you are saying that the universe is a living conscious creature that upon becoming aware, manifested a universal mind? Uh huh! Now, that mind uses “Vibrations (that) translate into light and sound and matter and energy” to create a false reality that “we” call the physical realm. In this physical realm, what we perceive is not reality, but only the left over manifestations of the play things the universal mind has created.

So I don’t get it, what’s the purpose of individuality except to create a false perception of will; determinism, and singularity?



What’s the purpose of believing in the individual ‘mind’? Notice I did not say brain as brain is part of the physical mechanism. But mind – if it is truly universal should be getting all its information from the only possible source of knowledge – the manifestation of that which was created when the living universe became ‘aware’.



My questions are not in anger. For you, and the ‘few’ who think as you do, these questions are intended to make you think about what you are saying; just holding you responsible for your information, for your concepts. Those who claim no responsibility create religious dogma, and as we have all seen, such dogma has effects on morality and ethics that are rarely of value.




Tribo:


Thank-you, Tribo, well said. Another fail-safe that is missing is reason. A living, conscious universe, having become aware of self, manifested a mind. What kind of universal mind would create a physical life form, and then observe it as it harmed and destroyed other physical manifestations?




Will the “The Science of Getting Rich” explain to me why you think we decide to be ill or get hit by a car? The law of attraction – to quote a song “it’s not having you want, it’s wanting what you have.” All these things WE decide, all the paths WE choose, where is the WE coming from? I thought we were only the concept of a universal mind? Do we, or don’t we have a mind apart from the universal whole? Are we or aren’t we individuals? Do we or don’t we “think” for ourselves? If we are individuals with mind that can survive outside the body, why do we keep this form when it has no basis in reality?



“Proof is only a matter of convincing someone to believe”
and sometimes asking someone difficult questions about what they believe makes them think, sometimes it offends and sometimes it makes them angry. But as we’ve already clarified – people will decide what to believe and though you may not change your mind – there may be those “FEW” that you connect with that may be enlightened by their own thought over some of my questions.

What is the point of anything? What is the point of life?

The point is the desire to exist.
To exist is the point.
To Be or not to Be, that is the point.

I assure you I have thought long and deep about the things I am saying and I take full responsibility for what I believe and I expect others to do the same. I have no intention of creating religious dogma.

I don't know whether you will understand the law of attraction or not by anything you read. I would think you would.

Nobody consciously decides to get hit by a car. These "decisions" are unconscious.




Yes we are individuals. The universal mind is at our disposal, ~ sort of like a huge library of information.



Thinking is both in our automatic programing for survival and deliberate with the use of our conscious will.

We take form to exist. To live. To experience. To be. To learn. To create.

Yes they do make me think. As I have told you, I have learned by your questions even if you have not learned by my answers.

Something like that.

Environments are manifested for the natural incubation of individual units of awareness that become individual creative thinking centers.

There are probably so many different levels of reality I cannot even guess what they are like or how they are manifested.

They all exist within this universal mind. That is my idea.

Everything has a degree of consciousness. That is my idea.

This physical universe is probably just a small part of the entire whole of existence.

But that is just my idea. Yes, it is just my imagination.

Imagination is the creative spark.

Hey Jeanniebean, Do you believe in "Eternal Return"?I don't mean reincarnation.I mean like, "All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again". Like the ancients believed.

I think you're perfectly correct Di, that any kind of believe in spirituality is a dream.

But what's wrong with dreaming?

Are dreams what life is made of?

Without our dreams what do we have left?

Pure atheism is simply not attractive to a lot of people.

All that Pure Atheism says is that is no such thing as hope. You were born randomly when you were born, and when you die that's it. It's all over.

That's all there is to life and there is no meaning beyond that.

For a lot of people, especially for people who are lonely or strugging through life for whatever reason, the question then becomes, "Well, if this is all there is, and there's no hope of any sort of spiritual help whatsoever then what's wrong with sucide?"

First off, there's no creator who would give crap. No creator to be peeved that you've killed yourself.

And if all you see in the future is more of the same, then what the point in going on?

Now sure, atheism might be good for poeple who are doing ok, or who are optimisitic that they can indeed improve their own future.

But a lot of people don't feel that way. A lot of people absolutely need to know that there is something more to life.

Even if its only just in their own mind. The DREAM of something better is better than nothing.

Look at some of these religious people, they are so addicted to their god concept that if you stripped them up if they would clearly have a nevous breakdown and become totally lost and helpless individuals. They're faith is what keeps them going.

It's all about faith. And what is faith but a dream?

That's all faith truly is. It's dream that maybe something will eventually work out because of some intervening 'power that cares'.

It doesn't matter whether that god is a human-like Santa Claus, or a 'law of attraction', or a panteistic view of reincarnation, or whatever.

Anything that suggests that there is something more to life is indeed a DREAM.

But what's wrong with DREAMING?

Well, clearly in the case of people who dream of a human-like Santa Claus who condemns people to hell and incites wars, bigotry, and hatred in his name, that's not healthy.

But innocent dreams of religions and philosophies that offer possible supernatural assistance surely can't be bad.

What's wrong with believing that there might be more to life than meets the eye?

We certainly know that science has not come anywhere near close to explaning how this reality came to be.

Quantum physics most certainly does tell us that on the smallest of scales this universe is not made of particles at all. It's entirely made of vibrations, and we can't even say what is it that's vibrating! We can put a word to it and call it "Energy".

But what the hell is "Energy"?

In truth, things like the "law of attraction", witchcraft, and even phases like "The Power of Belief" may have far more validity than meets the eye.

Science truly cannot rule any of this stuff out.

IMHO, pure atheism is just as much a faith-based belief as anything else truly.

Sure humanity could be nothing more than just an accidental mold growing on speck of iron in a vast sea of stars.

But to truly belief that this is all we are doesn't sound very appealing to me. It basically says that nothing matters. It only matters to the mold (the humans), and if they don't care then no one cares.

So suicide is no big deal. Neither is the death of anyone. They were just a freak accident to begin with, so it's no big deal if they die.

Death would be meaningless, life would be meaningless. It would all be for naught.

After you're dead it may as well have never even happened. That would be clearly true!

But if that's true then it doesn't matter whether you die 10 seconds after you're born or 100 years after your born, because once you're dead it was meaningless that you had ever lived.

You can say, "Oh, but it does have meaning in the BIGGER PICTURE, you've touched the ones you left behind."

But truly Di this is a totally meaningless philosophy. If life is meaningless to an individual after they die, then it's meaningless to all individuals after they die.

To the point is moot.

Once humanity as a whole dies off it may as well have never happened.

It would truly be a meaningless life.

Life can truly only have meaning via an idea of eternal spirituality. Whether it be thought of as some kind of eternal spirit world, or simply via ideas of reincarnations.

But if we just black out when we die and that's that. Then it truly doesn't matter when we die. To kill someone would be utterly meaningless. You woudln't have robbed them of a single thing, because once they are dead they they aren't going to know it. Nor will they have a clue what they missed. NOR will they even know that they had ever lived.

Life would truly be totally meaningless if atheism is true.

That's not to say that atheism can't be true. Maybe it is true. But none the less, if it is true, that just means that life is meaningless.

So it's silly to tell people who have hopes for more than they are just dreaming.

Even if atheism is true, wouldn't it be better to dream and pretend otherwise?

What's to be gained by facing the fact that life is meaningless?

That's the whole point Di.

One thing that is true is that humans have the ability to DREAM. So why ask people to give up that option?

Why take that away from them?

I can see it in the case where people are dreaming about an Evil Santa Claus like God who favors bigotry and hatred. Those religions are basically hate crimes.

But in the case of pantheisic and pagan views I see no reason to put them down. Where's the negativity in them?

Abra wrote:


One of the (many) reasons I believe the way I do is that you can't get around the fact that everything is nothing more that vibrations and scientists still have not found and measured "the particle" which they thought would be the final building block of this universe, and yet all indications are that the particle is simply a standing wave.

What does it mean when we reach the bottom of the fabric of reality and can only find a vibration? Some sort of wave and a field? What can that mean?

Well it means that the building blocks of this reality are vibrations, which translate into energy which translates into matter which creates space. Light and sound are vibrations.

This is not some fantasy I made up. But this may very well be a dream-like holographic reality. That's not a bad thing, its just difficult to believe for some people.




I suspect we may all still be dreaming...

I am not familiar with the specifics of that idea.

Red,

In the above question, you sound a little frustrated with life in general because it does not seem "perfect" according to you. You sound like a typical person who is angry (at God?) because of the pain and suffering in this world. You asked:

("What kind of universal mind would create a physical life form, and then observe it as it harmed and destroyed other physical manifestations?")

My answer:

Physical life forms are "manifested" ~~ not "created."

To create is to cause a thing to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.

To manifest is to make clear or evident to the eye or the understanding; show plainly.

Self (consciousness) exists and it manifests in order to make itself evident. Its purpose is to exist, and it desires naturally to make itself evident. It naturally manifests.

Therefore it does not "create" physical life forms and then observe them "doing harm to others." It manifests into physical life of all kinds.

(What it does to others it does to Itself.)

The answer to your question is YOU.

You are the one.

Even inside of the universe of your own body there is a battle going on between bacteria. Inside of your own mind there is a struggle going on.

What people do to others they do to them selves.

Yes, we are individuals, but we are again, part of the whole manifestation.

Disclaimer: These are my beliefs. This is my opinion. These are my ideas. This is my dream. This is my reality.

I have probably revealed too much of myself on this club and it is probably not a good idea to do that, but my path is a path of truth to self. I have learned about myself -- from myself.(others) This is what matters to me.

How odd, I had just read that the other day. Certainly good stuff for anyone engaging in theological or philosophical discourse.

Jeannie..... so you are saying if the 5 YEAR OLD BOY DECIDES to feel no pain, then he won't feel no pain????????

a 5 year old child???

How about this one .......

a child has been abused since he was a little todddler... and in order to ESCAPE from his painful reality, he creates his OWN reality.........

what say ye about this precious soul..... NOT feeling any pain now, Jeannie?