thanks for the laugh mirror,

Well like I say, an unsafe God is a demon.

If I can't trust God to be at least as compassionate, understanding and forgiving as myself, then it isn't much of a God IMHO.

Where's the line between a demon and a God?

A God that you can't trust to be your friend is no "God" at all IMHO. It's just a powerful demon.

Would you bow down and worship Hitler if his only saving quality was that he is the most powerful being that exists?

If you did, it would only be to escape his wrath, and most certainly not because you love or admire him.

A God is no different. A God can't just demand respect. A God must be worthy of respect, otherwise it's not a 'God' at all but merely an all-powerful demon.

As I've said before, I can't deny that we aren't just pet slaves to a demon. Maybe that is our unfortunate reality.

But, I'm certainly not going to believe that it's true on pure faith and wish or hope that it's true.

On the contrary, I'll be glad to believe any evidence that suggests that such a picture of God is a manmade farce.

It doesn't really matter in the end.

Hitler is still Hitler whether you bow down and worship him or not.

I'd rather believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones is God. I have no clue how 'nice' she is, but at least she's HOT!

back to mind control.

education is not mind control and neither is religion.
nor philosophy nor even torture. mind control is brainwashing.
it's real and well studied i believe.

this seems like a good introduction. go and educate yourself!
but it is your choice to do so

i would not coerce you. nope not i.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/brainwashing.htm

Humans have free will. Humans are in control of their own destiny. Humans condemn themselves and the Jealous God lets them have their way. But despite it all he still offers a chance at salvation (because he was asked). This is NOT G-DS world. There is True God in Heaven and a False god of the earth. Your getting them confused.

"Joe Bless You" - George Carlin

I think what might be happening here is people mistaking "persuasion" for >mind-control<

When i was within the christian cults/sects, what was used on me and all others is [persuasion], No one i remember tried to Drill anything into my head as to how i believed or should act/perform. Not that i'm saying this might not be the case with radical groups of believers around the world, including here.

All forms of mans so called "knowledge" is gleaned by reading/hearing/expieiencing, what others say of what they are communicating upon and then those who do so, try it for themselves to see if it is true or not.

Of course somethings that are written or talked of can not be expierienced in this reality [meaning spiritual] and that's where faith of some kind or degree enters into the scenario.

Now i also think that SOME - people are extremely good at the art of persuasion, and able to lead people into ""mind altering""[ meaning, being able to persuade others to think in a way they would normally not if they had not been influenced by this type of persuasive personality] ( Manson, etc) But this is usually accompanied by drugs and or with other means music, rhetoric, behavior, etc.. Not just by talking about a particular subject or being, etc..

Mostly i believe that if one is strong willed, cognizant, logical, and has good common sense as well as NOT being prone to mental manipulation as some are prone to hypnosis or others, that you find the majority not having any kind of mind control put upon them by orthodox religions or other movements, how many of us are NOT aware already of how the system bombards us daily with lies and biased info, be it news or other? I think the bulk of mankind is aware not to trust such things. In fact, i think [though we have a long way to go yet] we are probably the most aware generation to date, unfortunately we have also deveoped some bad habits that could be devastating in the long run!! which i will not elude to hear unless asked to do so.

If thier is not mind control.. Then why is it that religion will fight tooth and nail to keep thier customs. Even though they know it is not of Yahweh. Yet show them what the Disciples and Yahshua taught and walked and they say well that is done away.. By who's authority is it done away? Is not Yahshua came as our example and yet almost everything he taught and lived is said to of been done away. You can not find anything that says anything has been done away except for the customs that were not of Yahweh. Like hand washings and a sabbath days journey. Nothing of Yahweh has been done away except for sacrifices since we are the New Temple. So if religion goes on and teaches things they know are not to be done.. Then the members follow right along and do them and they will not change thier customs no matter how much proof you can show them. The only reason for this is Brainwashings.. They prefer the commadments of man over the commandments of Yahweh.. You are fullfilling prophecy in doing this but not in a good light... Blessings of Shalom...Miles

Supposedly he never married, had no children, and therefore never played the role of husband or father.

In short, if he was an example of how to live, then the example is to not participate in life.

I think I'm living very much the example he gave us. I never married, never had children, and I don't particpate in life.

Of course, Jesus supposedly went around chasing demons out of people. I'm afraid I don't know how to do that or I'd being doing it too.

I need to live in the constraints of being a mere mortal man. It's pretty hard to follow the example of a God when you're not a God yourself.

Of course, he claimed that we are, but if that's the case then we should be able to be our own examples.

The law's of Yahweh were for "carnal Israel" [the fig tree] the true laws of god were written on the heart of his people [spiritual Israel] the "olive tree". Do not confuse the tutor [the law] with the teacher [the spirit] and the certificate of grace given to each new life born thereof.

1ST TRIBO: Chpt. 2 vs 9

The difference is the law was our schoolmaster. When you go on to learning on a higher plain. You do not forget what the schoolmaster taught you. No now you enhance it but when in doubt you go back to the basics to learn. I worked Electronics for a long time. If I said ohms law does not apply when trying to figure out anything in it. I could not fix nothing because it is all based on ohms law.. So is the NT based on The OT, Not done away. Doing away with it is why nobody knows what the book says and we have about 1000 different denominations just here in the USA. Stay with the basic and you will not go wrong..Shalom...Miles

Was not the law given to teach and show Israel that they could not obey it of there own volition? Did not god put it into being to teach them they could never obey the laws? If the laws were given to show Israel they could never keep them on their own, then why would one hold on to them in an age of grace that states they are not necessary anymore when one puts their faith in christ? Is christ not the answer to the law? Is it not he that stands before the father as our shield? are not god's ""spiritual laws"" was written on the hearts of jesus' true followers? And what are these spiritual laws written on the heart? surely not the laws of leviticus. The laws of the spirit are those written on the heart - what are those miles?

Ex 24:1-8

Now He said to Moses, "Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and worship from afar. 2 And Moses alone shall come near the Lord, but they shall not come near; nor shall the people go up with him."

3 So Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said,"All the words which the Lord has said we will do." 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young men of the children of Israel, who offered burnt offerings and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen to the Lord. 6 And Moses took half the blood and put it in basins, and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, "All that the Lord has said we will do, and be obedient." 8 And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you according to all these words."
NKJV

Was not the law given to teach and show Israel that they could not obey it of there own volition? Did not god put it into being to teach them they could never obey the laws? If the laws were given to show Israel they could never keep them on their own, then why would one hold on to them in an age of grace that states they are not necessary anymore when one puts their faith in christ? Is christ not the answer to the law? Is it not he that stands before the father as our shield? are not god's ""spiritual laws"" written on the hearts of jesus' true followers? And what are these spiritual laws written on the heart? surely not the laws of leviticus. The laws of the spirit are those written on the heart - what are those miles?
Edited by tribo on Tue 09/23/08 05:36 PM

Let's try to get ...
From your link: I think that the public primary school system in our country would definitely fall under both the “education” and “persuasion” method as described above, as do evangelical religions. And if you’ve ever been in the military, I don’t think there is any debate as to whether or not boot camp would fall under the “compliance” banner.

But my point really is that the whole concept of brainwashing/mind control is a slippery subject. It’s difficult to even come up with definitions for those two words that many people will agree on.

So going back to the OP, do “cults” practice brainwashing or mind control? Well, if you subscribe to the definitions given in that website, then yes. But then so does just about anything that attempts to “change peoples minds” – exactly as JB pointed out.

Mind control has many methods. It is not only to "change peoples minds" but to shape their minds and sway their opinions and attitudes.

Subliminal advertising was never banned or outlawed. It is used a lot probably in every advertisement that you watch.

Survey polls are for the specific purpose of gaging the effects of certain propaganda campaigns in the area of politics, attitudes and products.

Direct to consumer prescriptions drug campaigns suggest symptoms, name a disease and tell you to "ask your doctor" if this drug is right for you.

Fear and guilt is used in desperate campaigns to persuade people to approve of laws that take away our personal freedoms with the illusion of feeling safe. Let them tap your phones and enter your house without a warrant. (The patriot act)

There is the slow torture of mind control and the fast and violent kind. The slow torture you will never notice.

The best kind of mind control is the kind you accept willingly and never notice, it comes at you slowly over time.

jb

Tribo.

I know of no place it says they could not keep the law. Yahshua came as a man. Hence son of man. He said he encoured every temptation man did. Yet he kept it perfectly. Yahweh has always wanted an obediet heart. The sacrafices were thier to show what thier sins cause. Pain. and death. Yahweh is not a respector of persons. Yahshua is the only man to keep it perfectly even though Joseph is called the Testimony in the OT and Yahshua in the NT. My guess besides Yahshua Joseph kept it the best. Now if you look at Joseph the law was written on his heart. After his brothers sold him into slavery he was thrown in prison. Kept his obedience to the law and was found very smart about things in the pharohs eyes. He became ruler over Goshen. When his brothers came to him needding food. He did not say anything to them but haveing joy they were thier,forgiving them as he never even mentioned what they did to him. Hee showed the Law of perfect Love as did Yahshua. But the laws are thier for our own good. Our schoolmaster and anyone knows if you quit practicing your profession you start losing it. You keep this in you and practise it. It grows. The law is called The Royal Law by James.Hebrews says it was not the law that was the problem it was the people. The Holy Spirit coming Yahweh made us the Temple made without hands. And put the law inside us. Hence the cloven tongues of fire on Pentecost. Yahhweh is a consuming fire. The tongue is his word. The people all around said they were saying the wonderful works of Yahweh they each heard in thier own language. Thier was no NT then Tribo. The law is to be written on your heart to do Yahweh does not want or will accept it from someone who is just going through the motions. He wants the Heart.As Ps 53 tells us. A Broken and contrite Heart I will not dispise. The law is in effect but no one is here like the pharasees to tell us our sins. So 99% will not obey it because they have no heart for it. If they did keeep it but out of feeling like they had to instead of out of love for Yahweh then it does them no good at all. They are fooling themselves. The Law is still here it depends on wether or not you hear his voice and follow. This is the calling and then professing and being Baptised with the laying on of hands. The Holy Spirit indwells in you and then you are Chosen. Blessings..Miles

the key part of the cited brainwashing article
distinguishes the nature of brainwashing thus:

Brainwashing is a severe form of social influence that combine¬s all of these approaches to cause changes in someone's way of thinking without that person's consent and often against his will.

I don't agree that mind control always equals brainwashing against a person's will. That is a severe kind of mind control.

But milder forms of subtle "mind control" exist. It is that which controls and manipulates thoughts and emotions of the general population.

Jb

Why are you equating mind control and brainwashing with cults? Those are things the government does

and the government is a cult ....