Must you insist on changing the words written in the Holy Bible so soon yet to suit you, abra.?

It says. "the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

It also says, "and darkness (was, as implied for English) upon the face of the deep."


Nice job there, professor. Confused? you bet, you are!!!! mixing up scriptures in your head and spewing forth your comprehension in typical malipulations hallmarking your lack of credentials


So stop right there.

The rest of your fabrication is just an illusion

a mirage.

as always.

Always deliberately leaving out the Holy Spirit.

So predictable.

so disengenuous.

there is another word for that......

now what is it?

Ask any Atheist on the forums Wouldee. They will gladly tell you that I'm a highly spiritual man.

Clearly you don't pay attention to what people are sharing of themselves.

I love God Wouldee, and I'm sure God loves you. I'm sure God loves all the Atheists too.

I believe in a loving God Wouldee.

Pure unadulaterated Love.

God loves Love Wouldee.

She likes sex too, but that's another story.

have fun playing in your sandbox.

i will look inlater and see how you biblical scholarss fare without the Holy Spirit guiding your minds.

I am sure I will find traps that you lay, and you in them.

Do your best.

It will be an easy task, but do try to be cunning.

It brings out the essence of , well, YOU!!!!!

I'm afraid this isn't technically correct Belushi.

According General Relativity both energy and matter came into being during the Big Bang.

In fact, the universe, on average contains zero energy.

This is because gravity actually counts as negative energy with respect to the universe as a whole.

So energy/matter are not eternal. They came into being with the Big Bang, and Alan Guth's Inflation Theory decribes the process of how that unfolded.

Quite fascinating stuff actually.

HMMM? - are you trying to make some kind of point here MR. B - ??? -

hi deb, maybe i should rephrase it and ask - was there a point where there was just god and nothing else? a time when nothing existed but god - not even a quark??

thnx

Did God die and leave you in charge of judging the spirituality of other people Wouldee?

I've told you many times that Christianity can be a very dangerous religion because it causes people to become judgmental of others.

You are a shinning example of what can go wrong with judgmental religions Wouldee.

Thank you for illustrating this fact so clearly to everyone.

To respond to your question on a purely literal level - no. It does not say in scripture that "God created out of nothing". In Genesis, we know that "In the beginning God created..."
In Psalm 148: 5 it says "... for he commanded and they were created."

There are other passages that refer to God as the Creator, and to those things which were created, but aside from these references - there are no other that speaks of "how" he created, or out of what.

I love that question Tribo. I love it because it is so profound.

If God has always existed, but the earth, man, in fact the whole universe is merely a fleeting moment in God's eternity, then surely God would have created many other earth-like worlds. And many other human-like creatures. And probably many non-human-like intelligent life forms.

The whole earth-centered idea of God was a very limited view of ancient man.

They were thinking in terms of God having just created a view hundred thousand souls. I'm sure that people back in those days had no clue of the actual size of the earth. All they knew was their direct experience of it. They had no TV, Internet, or even telephone. If you wanted to know of something you either had to experience it yourself or hear about it second-hand from a bard or sage telling stories around a campfire.

They simply never really thought about what 'eternity' would truly mean.

If there is only one sentient God, that is creating spirit and keeping track of their every thought, it must be so infinitly intelligent that is is beyond are wildest imagination to even begin to concieve it.

Heaven must contain so many spirits that infinity wouldn't be a larger enough concept to embrace them all.

To think that such a God would be concerned with judging each and every soul individually is ludicous.

What would be the motivation to do such a thing?

It's a crazy idea.

Imagine this God is going to be pissed because some teenage boy had the hots for some teenage girl when he shouldn't have been thinking about sex?

Oh PLEASE!

It's utterly absurd!

If such an infinitely intelligent being does exist there's no way that it's going to be concerned with the petty bull crap found in the Bible.

Im just struggling to see how any sensible, reasonably intelligent human being with all their faculties could see that one minute there was god picking his arse, in the middle of hyper, cyber, cryper (and any other made-up word that has -ber or -per at the end of it) and then KAZAAAM He has created a world full of trouble and miniscule beings who desire nothing more than to shag themselves stupid, eat themselves to an early grave and kill each other to extinction.

It beggars belief - well my belief anyway.

Now there's an interesting question! Actually, we only know what didn't exist before God created.
So the heavens and the earth did not exist. No sun, stars, sky, etc, etc. But that is all we can conclude. Certainly all that we can see did not exist - but that doesw not prove that in the absense of all we see that we are left with "nothing".

Well, surely this wouldn't be God's first creation.

If God always existed he must have done this infinitely many times before he created us.

In fact, if he always existed that implies that there was never a first time that he did it since he had always been doing it.

And he will continue to do it for all of eternity as well.

Surely humans aren't so arrogant to think that we are God's only creation?

I don't think people really stop to even think about the implications here.

thnx eljay i knew i could count on you hahaha

Hard to argue the point either way Abra. It would largely depend on how far one is willing to "stretch" their faith as it were, and how willing they are to accept "reasonable proof" (as it were) to support it.

Jeannie is a great example of this. That is not to say that she is not discerning in her acceptability of "evidence" be it through logic, or theory - as long as it holds together, it is just that she isn't quick to dismiss - well anything. Except the claims of scripture - and likely (for she has not expressed this to me personally) that is because of it's exclusivity, and Jeannie is not one to exclude anything but that which excludes. I think most people - reguardless of their faith or belief - consider this possibility, and either chose to accept it, disreguard it, or reject it based on what they deem "acceptable as a proof" - for lack of a better term.

For me - I would wonder why there is an account of the creation of Adam & Eve - etc, etc, etc. But not one of any other civilizations which would have preceeded it, and not lasted the tests of time as the bible has. That's not to say that I reject it, I just don't deem it important enough to consider pursuing it and not find it any more than he mythology I've already pursued.
I would also need a little more than mere artist renderings, or the imagination of Hollywood to satisfy my parameters for acceptance.

Have I not attempted to respond to all of your wild imaginations? Surely you knew I would not let you down my friend.









(Don't you just hate these things!)

the bananas and the rolfs, they should be done away with and new ones added like unbelieveable and disgust - hahaha

The idea that the Bible has lasted the 'tests' of time is truly a meaningless concept to me.

I don't see where it has stood up to any of the 'tests' of time. On the contrary it appears to me to have failed them all.

The only reason that the Bible has lasted as long as it has as a religion is genuinely because of things like the crusades. The religion was indeed enforced by Kings as well as just plain weirdoes who love to incite mobs into burning witches.

Freedom of speech like we enjoy today was not available to people in ancient times. On the contrary to speak out against the religion could cost you your life. And even in cases when it wasn't quite that threatening it would still casuse the people of the society to frown on you as being a heathen.

Hells bells just read the forums today. The judgmental attitude of some "Christians" is utterly despicable.

I can't even claim to be a spiritual man without being accused of being 'ungodly' and "avoiding" God. Simply because I refuse to accept the biblical doctrine as 'truth'.

The religion isn't standing any 'test' of time. It's just a belligerent religion. And we all know that it has always aggressively proselytized itself. So why should it be any surprise that it lasted for so long?

As far as the 'tests' of time it falls flat on its face.

The original believers thought that the world was the center of creation. This was extremely important to them. It was central to their belief system. God created the heavens and the Earth and the earth was the centerpiece of creation.

The church was wrong. And look what they did to the scientists who dared to point out the error of the Church! They were humiliated, tortured, and placed under house arrest! Fortunately the church doesn't have that kind of political power today.

But the Church was wrong. The earth is not the center of creation. It's just one plant among several that are encircling a star. And our star is only one of infinitely many stars! Theirs is nothing that points to the earth being special in any way with respect to the universe as a whole.

It failed miserably.

Today, you may argue against evolution, (or maybe you don't, I don't know) but as far as I'm concerned this is just the same thing all over again. And as far as I'm concerned it's been settled. We did indeed evolve from lower animals. The people who refuse to accept this truth are just pushing this dogma.

Look at how many people push this dogma when in fact they have no clue whether it's true or not. Yourself included.

It's a faith-based religion, and the faith is getting weaker every passing year as humanity moves into the future. The religion had it's heyday, but those days are over. Even in all of modern times the religion has just been a backdrop in civilization. It's just a ghost of what once was. It won't be around much longer in the big picture. We are actually witnessing the death of the religion as we speak. It's been dying for the past several centuries. It's actually just a dead carcass twitching on nerve impulses now. It may have meaning for individuals yet, but as an organized dragon it's been dead for quite some time now. It will never regain a foothold on humanity like it once had.

It hasn't stood the test of anything. It's just been a belligerent pain in the butt to all of humanity.

JMO of course.

As to the test of time, it doesn't matter the roue it took to get here - it is the fact that it is here, and is as prevelant as it is. There are more copies of the bible in circulation than any other book in the known annuels of man. That was the point. The comment was not to it's validity - I didn't need you to respond to that, your position is not a mystery in that respect - but of all of the texts of antiquity - we have more copies of the bible than the next ten put together. Despite your animosity towards it - it remains, by far, the most recognised book in all of existance. Most know of it - countries outlaw it, our school system has banned the teaching of it. Can you name another text that has lasted as long, and is as widely recognised? I doubt it.

So - to reiterate my point - wouldn't there be at least some inkling of a text describing these previous "creations". Some obscure mentioning of it dating back to the first century?

I'd be more inclined to accept this hypothesis if it weren't just that "Abra insists there was". It would leave us with something to discuss anyway.

Well of course........when he was creating everything before he created earth.......he did hang the stars in the sky and gsve them each a name....As far as God just being and nothing else....well I think that is a great question.....and I would say for myself when God says I am, was, and always will be...pretty much sums it all up.....forever and ever and ever.....what do you think Tribo?


And I was joking about ligit question.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwmpRATHos&feature=related

2 legit
2 legit
2 quit

Please Tribo, don't hurt 'em!

Creatio Ex Nihilo

You've asked this question before and I have answered it before, I suppose you didn't like my answer the first time, but here it is again.

John 1:3