Kristi,

RO asked me to "tear up" his quote about putting a lampstand where the light can be seen, not hiding it in the dark.

being clear.

I believed my answer to Redy gave an excellent example of how that light is put out in the open.

that light is the light of Christ lighting upon our hearts.

Is that clearer?

thank you,
Rich

It would appear that is quite common amongst many modern day Christians and Catholics specifically. There can be any number of ways the two are combined together. Conversely, this is also why there can exist a scientist who studies and researches evolution and the principles held there in and can still be a practicing Christian of any denomination.

QUOTE:

Redy



Morningsong writes:


Who will argue with Morningsong, so I will continue.

NOAHS ARK! That is the subject here.

I begin with DNA knowledge. I would expect that probably be 99.9% of all Christian accept the knowlegde derived from DNA research,considering there is hardly any that would not seek the benefit that medical procedure and technology can provide, based on that DNA research. If that's the case than they must accept that Science has proven that no creature can survive repeated inbreeding - therefore the idea of collecting 2 of every living creature on this planet for the purpose of repopulation is ludicrous. ITS THE SAME SCIENCE FOLKS. It is a whole package, you cannot accept only the part that benefits you and your faith.

But we won't stop there. If one consideres the many billions of living organisms, and their necessary home environments, it would not be possible to collect them all and store them, and keep them alive on an ark without any technology what-so-ever.

There are those whose little minds will say that god gathered and made the creatures amicable to every every other creature. But how were the environments required and the food necessary to maintain the life of every creature provided. Did they actually ALL stop defacating and eating????

Of course if they insist that god has pulled of these amazing feats then I can ony be mezmerised that if a god was going to go through that much trouble, why not destroy ALL and then just spend a day or two recreating????

Also there is the idea that a world covered in water can not possibley maintain the PH or the salt content reaquired by all water living creatures, what happened to them?

Then we go on even further to discover that many kinds of animals and creatures existed in one era that did not exist in another.

Probably 10's of thousands of creatures have become extinct, but there are no less variations of creatures in the world? Why? If god no longer creates where have all the NEW creatures and species come from?

No I won't provide the information for all that I've said - you have a computer, that's were most of it came from. In fact the majority of what I've said came from links that others have provide in threads of this nature. Find them for yourself, read them for yourself and THEN some of us can help you interpret them, if you have questions. Isn't that the way you treat biblical questions and references? So be it. You read the science and WE will provide the benefit of OUR knowledge by interpreting or providing other links to that which you don't understand.

"Probably 10's of thousands of creatures have become extinct, but there are no less variations of creatures in the world? Why? If god no longer creates where have all the NEW creatures and species come from?"-Redy

I wanted to add to that an actual visual of two animals that would not exist in the wild, nor any Arks. They are products of man, created in a captive environment. Here are photos of them:

The Tigon- The tigon is a hybrid cross between a male tiger and a female lion.

http://www.forevertigers.com/tigons.jpg

The Liger- The liger is a cat born from the breeding of a male lion and a female tiger.

http://www.liger.org/

I'm convinced, and always have been convinced, that the story of the Ark holding two of every animal in the world today is a fairy tale so ludicrous that it boggles my mind that any person with a modicum of intelligence would consider it to be literally true as it is told.

If the story of the flood has any truth in it at all, it is a symbolic tale. The story of a flood exists not only in Christianity but in many cultures not remotely connected to Christianity.

If there is any truth to it at all, I believe it is an ancient tale, more ancient than known human civilization, possibly connected to an advanced society who housed DNA material in a space ship or some other vehicle to repopulate the earth.

But as it stands, Moses was a fictional character anyway, so the story of the Ark is also a fictional legendary tale which might have some symbolic meaning.

JB

if one believe in god, and that all things made without hands comes from god, then what thing does not grow or evolve every second, even all from a seed........

is not a tree evolving and morphing into a bigger tree each day, just from a simple seed......

how does evolution not say the same thing.....

how does the book not say the same thing.....

does not a catterpiller evolve into a butterfly....

has it not changed it's shape and form.......

has it not shifted it's shape........

can one thing be made as different that human hands did not create, without the same principles flowing and applying to all, that was made without physical hands......

if each thing made without human hands is made this way, than why are human beings different, and even the earth and galaxie.....

is not this to seperate all things made into secs and categories, saying some are evil made, and some good made, not allowing all wisdom to come together, and the seeing of similarities, as clues to a puzzle.....

are not their many others examples of the same......

how is the scientist unscrupulous for following their own guide the desire of the heart, purposed from every whisper of the mind.........

how is a christian unscrupulous for following their own guide the desires of the heart, purposed from every whisper of the mind......

seems the only unscrupulous can be created when any one things follows it's own heart, as indeed good, but trying to do so with vigor for oneself only, closes it's eyes to all things around, creating a need to impose ones own heart as the only wise heart, and any naturally try to grasp for evidence it is good, to take away it's own fear of not really knowing, as no one alone is supposed to know all, or what common unity would be needed, but indeed this create a thinking as oneself as the wisest, all for the fear of rejection, but what can be solved if each think themself as the wisest, lol.........

indeed, would not all to be seen first as equal, mankind as all pieces that have learned by experience pieces of the puzzle, or what greater puzzles of the universe can be put together, to gain insight into the fragments each hold, to see the whole puzzle, and what whole puzzle put together would not dazzle every heart and eye, so who lose and does not find happiness, by giving up fear which create pride........

if one does not think the next beside oneself has wisdom, and only oneself, would not his lead to all pieces straying further away from each other, not allowing the whole truth to be as magnetized to come toegther, creating as each come together, as power even a mangnet display, but on a far greater scale.....

is not this power what all mankind need, for our own survival and betterment.........

is not this the same power that has been shown lie within the human being, as even some having been purposed have each tapped into a fragment of the power available, as such giving displays, to give courage for others, but yea if the one that has tapped, think of oneself as great, the gift is used for oneself, and the use only bring more seperation........

if there be good reason seen, for all pieces be seen as equal data, not one piece as ignorance or stupidity, as each brings their prize of wisdom wrapped with pain of emotion, as a piece with frayed edegs, for each piece of the puzzle was formerly damaged by many hearts attempting to force, by many attempts to force pieces of the puzzel into a place it did not fit, but seeing would allow each piece to be fitted to it's proper place, with finesse forsaking force, giving complete understanding of all knowledge together as one, unraveling the mysteries that all seek to know........

if each piece of the puzzle is presented, and cast aside, there is no examining to see the part that is wisdom, and that which is emotion of past pain, that each do have, and the piece is not turned over and over until the good wisdom spoken by each is seen, then inserting the piece of data into the puzzle with precision and confidence.......

if the mind whisper a truth of percived malice about another, it is only spoken by ones own wisdom to show reason to have understanding, and is not meant as a condemantion.....

did not text for those that call it truth, describe mankind as serpents, and does not a snake shed its skin continually, showing how man while mortal needs to shed his skin, as his beliefs, to grow more each day, to learn......

oh for the love of understanding that bring the brothers and sisters of all mankind together, and light beams thru each being, opening the vast universe that lie at our feet, begging for the good reasons for pride to be thrown down, for love to increase, to solve the mysteries, that even plague the soul, when each is alone, and even weep, and try to sleep..........

Don't forget the mule who has now evolved to be able to reproduce a foal.

I am very interested in this case. My question is this. Is it the Mother who is the miracle, or the father, or the foal? Has the entire heard of Mules developed this ability or is it just this one mother mule? Will she pass this on to her foal or is this just a freak thing?


JB

"how is a christian unscrupulous for following their own guide the desires of the heart, purposed from every whisper of the mind......"

How is a scientist wrong for their desire not to simply accept, but to challenge and question all that they see around them?

the answer was in the post, as it decribes the only way one could be called as uncrupulous, and was a defense showing how NONE is as such if wisdom be looked thru........

The "unscrupulous" Christian is the one who forces the lie onto others. By this I am accusing the Church of murdering those who refuted their proclamations so as to spread the word by the sword.

As for today. the true believers, who knows why they believe the unbelievable?? Past trauma remembered in the depths of the soul from former lives where people were ordered to convert or die and raise their children in the faith of Christianity?

Many Jews fled in order to maintain their faith, many died, some converted in order to live.

This is the doctrine of Christianity. It is a false forced doctrine. It comes from evil minds and befalls frightened children of God who will believe in fairy tales.

JB

It's not just that JB, its the fact that it states in gen:6 - 19&20 that Noah is to take 2 of each animal (read) and all the food for them, then - in gen 20 vs, 2-3, he tells Noah to take 14 of each clean beast and 2 of every unclean beast, this includes cattle birds, and every thing that creeps on the earth? so that mean at least 16 of each kind 8 male and 8 female. plus all the food to feed them. eljay stated that maybe they were very young animals and even eggs but if that were the case then why all the food? young would live off there mothers milk and eggs would need no food at all? it not just a story its a badly written one.

JB, your right, a mule that can reproduce is no longer a mule, at least by word entemology.

But has the mule reverted or is there a gene marker unknown that only appears extrememly rarely? Yes a very interesting case.

Tribo - very good points, I'll have to remember those. thanks

What i'd like to see is going from genisis 1-1 and forward to get a take on everything that is stated in the bible,not just S&g or later things. such as his ignorance of adam and eve having eaten the fruit? why did he have to ask? an all knowing god? and which one of the triune god parts was walking in the garden? god the faither, god the son, god the holy spirit?

in chpt 3 vs 22 it seems as if it is all 3 at once - having communion with one another, cause in vs 23 it states therefore the "lord god" sent him forth?

and here again it states in 23 that he sent "HIM" forth not >>>them<<<??? and again "HE" not >>>them<<<??? WTF?? Why not just say both of them or both adam and eve? and really icould start even earlier in the book like the first chpt.

and again - did the people the bible was originally written for have Strong's or lexicons or other books to try and decipher the words? of course not. it should be as plain as any other contemporary literature of its time. once the book went from Aramaic to Greek the word was lost in its original meaning. alsofrom the original Hebrew into Greek -the septuagint- it was lost. now everyone deciphers it as to the textus receptus of Greek and Hebrew and "decides" what best fits their agenda as to what was meant. IMO

Tribo you could ask that of god repeatedly through out the bible in any number of circumstances. If he is all knowing and omnipotent why then does he need to constantly question these humans about things like "who in the town of Sodom is good". I mean even Santa Claus knows who has been naughty and who has been nice. Wouldn’t he simply:

A. Know what the crimes were exactly.
B. Know who had been perpetrating these crimes.
C. Have the ability to show some discretion as it related to who should and should not be punished in these towns? Therefore sparing the lives of innocent women, children and babies?

It just seems ridiculous.

unfortunately the answers i get from all here is that god doesn't see the future till it actually happens and then he intervenes ? - yeah ok?

my understanding of omnipotent is lacking and wrong in their view.so everytime i've raised these issues i get shut down because my understanding of the exigesis of the things i ask is not correct.

in other words - you!! have to be a biblical scholar that has futurist beliefs to understand what is written in a correct way - anything else is just looked upon as pagan stupidity. not my opinion - theres.

Alrighty then....That was my Jim Carey impression.

and a good one it is

yet spider in other post says it can be understood 90% without further investigation? so which is it? either it should have been understood from the beginning by all who read it or not! you cant have it both ways, it's either taken at face value as to how it reads or it has to be understood in a magical way through the holy spirit dwelling in you? make up your frigging minds! you cant have it both ways! if it can only be understood by those with gods spirit in them - then whats to discuss between pagans and Christians?

The only way i could compete with answers of my own, is to reinterpret the book into triboistic language and argue from that point saying you will never know the truth until you have tribos spirit to guide you into all truths? that's mainly what their stating when telling others this - its gods spirit's way - or the highway.

Well the problem with that is - i was a christian and did as i was asked and received Jesus and his spirit supposedly, and it still didn't make sense to things especially in Genesis, i was told to just trust in Jesus and ask him the answers - well he didn't give them to me? what a surprise.

i still ask the same questions today, with the responses i have already stated, they wont even look at other non futurist answers -its the evangelical way or nothing! so what's left to find out? - NOTHING - according to the bible - only their "taught answers" to their questions. that's why i stopped[for the most part] even asking anymore. i find it hopeless and also humorous as my replies might indicate - hahaha

Exactly. It’s almost as if god has a VERY exclusive country club and only true believers are allowed a membership. None of us are allowed in so we can’t really know what is going on within the walls of the clubhouse. We can speculate about it all we want but the moment we start making assertions that maybe nothing is really going on in the clubhouse that cant be explained in a logical format that doesn’t involve a lot of hocus pocus, they become very agitated. It's always been my experience that religion becomes VERY uncomfortable in the face of logic.

Hmmm? - well anybody is allowed in but - you cant really expierience it unless you give you life to christ! supposedly - evidentally it works for a great mant people 30 million evangelicals alone, but i find that usually the majority are C's in name alone not true followers - that said most here seem to be true folowers/sheep - can't deny that.