When we ask Jesus into our hearts by FAITH... BELIEVING....God does the CHANGING in our spirit, not us.
He sees our childlike Faith, and God then thru His Holy Spirit, steps right into our heart, and SUPERNATURALLY CREATES A BRAND NEW BORN AGAIN SPIRIT IN US.

That SUPERNATURAL TRANSFORMATION IN OUR SPIRIT, when we suddenly are BORN AGAIN (when we confess Jesus as Lord and truly mean it in our heart), is beyond human comprehension to even begin to fanthom or understand.
It is not of this world.

The transformation happens in us, happens in our spirit , not our intellect.

And when we come to believe in Jesus by Faith, NOTHING can shake that FAITH now...cause that born again transforamation that took place in our spirit, comes from God.

When we are born again, we become new creatures in Christ. Old things are passed away...all things become new.

We then begin a brand new born again walk in Jesus...just like a new born babe ..we begin to drink the milk of the Word..cause a hunger comes too with becoming born again..just like with a natural born babe in the natural.... we then go to pablum and continue eating as we mature and grow in Christ.
But the hunger for God's Word never ceases.. we can't get enough of God's Word.
It is food for our spirit.
The more we eat, the more we mature and grow up in the Lord.

And one more thing.... we KNOW we are not the same....simply because we are NOT the same.
Our spirit has truly been made brand new.

We KNOW this cause God's Holy Spirit stepped right into our spirit...and that is HOW we Know, that we are truly born again.

So ...for some on this forum....the endless trying to intellectualize a spiritual experience , is not going to produce an answer.
Ever.
Cause this experience of a new birth, comes from God....and
God alone, not man.

One need only to believe with simple childlike Faith... and just ask Jesus into one's heart.
And God will step in and do that born again transformation in the spirit of man.....God does it all...not man..

But God will never step into one's heart,unless invited.

One only has to simply believe, and then recieve this free gift of Grace offered.

Are you ready to recieve that free gift of Grace offered, today?

All you have to do is Mean it in your heart now....just call upon Jesus with childlike faith..tears and all...it's ok....and God will surely step right into your heart, and you too will become that brand new creature in Christ Jesus.

And your life will never never never be the same again.

Today will mark the beginning of a brand new walk with the Lord Jesus Christ.

And you will also know a Joy and Peace beyond understanding of anything you have ever known before.
Promise.

I Love You All.
So Does God.

I think we are all adults here.... .

Double Post .

Let the child come out.

With all due repect MorningSong the real question is, "Why would I want to believe it?"

Why would I want to believe that mankind feel from grace from God and that we are all guilty of falling from grace of our creator, and that they only way we can make things right with God is accept that we are responsible for having to have his son nailed to a pole?

Why would I want to believe that?

That's the real question MorningSong.

Why would I want to believe that?

What's the motivation behind wanting to believe that.

To the best of my knowledge there was imperfections in the world long before mankind ever existed. Animals were eating other animals, and stealing their eggs and food, and eating their babies, and fighting over territory long before mankind ever came onto the scene.

So why would I want to believe that I have fallen from grace from God?

Why would I want to believe that I'm responible for having his son nailed to a pole?

Why would I want to believe such terrible things?

Especially in light of the fact that they don't match up with what we know about the real world.

Why would I want to believe that I have such a pathetically failed relationship with my creator?

Why would I want to believe that I'm that pathetic?

I just don't see why I should even be motivated to want to believe in such a terribly ugly story.

If I'm going to have "childlike innocence" then let me believe that I'm on good terms with my creator and that I'm not responsible for him having to have his son nail to a pole.

That would be true Childlike Faith I think. I don't think any child fully grasps the meaning of Christianity.

When you accept the Jesus died to pay for your sins, you are accepting responsibility for being guilty of being the reason that it was necessary! Moreover, you're even accepting the notion of allowing him to be nailed to pole for your sake.

Even if I thought the story was true I'd have to reject the offer. I couldn't, in good conscious ask God to pay for my sins. If the wages of sin is death, and I'm guilty of sin, then I'm willing to pay for my own sins. I'll take full responsibility for it and I won't condone anyone else paying for them. If the wages of sin are death, and I'm guilty of sin, then clearly I deserve to pay the penalty. And so I'll accept that and I accept the penalty of death.

I'd rather die knowing that I paid for my own actions, rather then live knowing that someone else had paid my way. I couldn't live with that. I'd rather pay my own debts if that's the way things are. That would be the only true justice.

So it would be an unworkable religion for me even if it was true. I'd have no choice but to reject the idea of having someone else pay for my sins just on principle alone. I could never live with myself if I condoned someone else paying for my sins. I would forever live in shame and disgrace if I did that. I would absolutely have to reject that notion on principle. My moral values are too high to accept anything less. I couldn't go to heaven with a clear conscious knowing that someone else had paid for my sins. I would have to live with eternal shame and disgrace if I did that.

It's a non-viable religion for me. It doesn't even come down to faith. I would have to reject salvation even it if I knew it was true beyond any shadow of a doubt. To do anything less would be completely dishonorable.

I think people should grow up.

Take full responsibility for the fine mess you've gotten yourself into.

(Three stooges) "This is a fine mess you've gotten us into!"

Then just keep on dancing!

But then again, lets just play! Play! Play! like children.
After all, life is just a game.

Don't take it too seriously.

JB

If the wages of sin is death, then how come everyone is still alive?

If Christians have been saved from the penalty of death then how come they are still dieing left and right and why are they still afraid of death?

Why do they mourn when someone dies if they believe that person went to "a better place?" Are they just feeling sorry for themselves?

Just wondering.

JB

God came to me in a vision and told me that my sins would come to $5.00. But he said I could pay it pennies.

~~~

~ Five Hundred Pennies To Heaven ~

I've always been a good boy
and never hurt a soul
I've never been a follower
nor lusted for control

And now the good Lord came to me
and offered me parole
He said five-hundred pennies
will be the total of my toll

I remember every sin
like I did it just today
I couldn't fight my whims
so I had to disobey

The women were so pretty
I just couldn't look away
so for every pretty penny
I laid a woman in the hay

Oh Lordy it was worth it!
Every penny bought a smile
I only wish I owed some more
cuz in truth it's been a while

I've been celibate in recent years
the thought has brought me tears
I only wish I'd been a sinner
with more women volunteers

I sit here rolling pennies
to pay for all my crimes
and reminisce
of a woman's kiss
as I rang her bell in chimes

Life has been so good to me
I really can't complain
I only pray there's sex in heaven
or it would be a shame

I'll gladly pay my dues
for all the women that I've screwed
I swear it was consensual
I'm really not that rude

Five hundred little pennies
Five hundred screaming "O's!"
I'll bet the angels had their fill
of all my sexy shows

Oh Lordy it was worth it!
Every penny bought a smile
I only wish I owed some more
cuz in truth it's been a while

I've been celibate in recent years
the thought has brought me tears
I only wish I'd been a sinner
with more women volunteers

~~~

For shame JB and abra.....she is entitled to write what she wishes....is this not what you have both said all along....well a fine example you have both set.....It was beautful was MS wrote....and you two put her down for it.....play like true kids for what....a lil laugh amongst yourselves...For shame....If I could I would send you both out of the room on a time out.

I didn't put her down.

I was simply asking her questions.

Why should I want to believe in the religion she's selling?

I think that's a legitimate question.

She claims that it's not a religion, yet it comes compeltely with a book of rules and supposed sins, etc.

I have nothing against MorningSong. I'm absolutely sure that she means well.

However, if she wants to be a salesperson, she should be able to answer questions about the product that she's trying to sell.

Why should I want to believe that I've fallen out of grace with my creator?

I think that's a perfectly fair question to ask a salesperson.

My little ditty is a good example too.

I seriously don't believe that consentual love is a sin.

Of if it is a sin, it certainly isn't worth being nailed to a cross over. Five hundred pennies should be a perfect fine.

If we're going to think like chilren let's get innocent and think like children then.

Nobody need to be nailed to any crosses to pay for the sins of childern.

Sorry, I was just being silly. I definitely do need a time out from this club. It is eating way too much of my time.

I think I've become addicted and I need an intervention.

Help!

I gotta git outta this place.

JB

FERALCAT......if anything hears words MORE BEAUTIFUL than ANOTHER, it can ony be THESE WORDS are what ONE MOST WISHES to hear.......

did not your text say "ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD" was this not all words as well..........

MORNINGSONG........each and every words you speak is as percieved thru your own GREATEST desire, and why it even gives one "warmth" to hear their own beautiful words......

if any profess to be a "christian" as their jesus, then their PROFESSION bring words, to sharpen the sight, and are not persecution, unless "personal desire" wish to not be persecuted, and where did jesus EVER complain about being peersecuted, in fact, he embraced and DEVOURED each word, and WHY he had wisdom.........

if ones profession is TRUTH, then why does ones PERSONAL DESIRE still shape each word percieved, as ONE word heard as good, or as bad, proves desire still be had........

wonder why your text said to not judge......it did not say WHAT to not judge........

your perception and what has been taught by others has perpetuated these definitions.....

if one judge some words good, and some bad, HOW CAN ANYTHING HEAR, as he that hath and ear, let them hear.........

what heart can SEE ALL if it look THRU self desire......

how is one that does not wish to believe words spoken obviously thru bias of fear and love not wise.........

You crack me up abra.....you know this and still you want to do battle.....let it go.....she knows your beliefs and vise versa.....let her just post without you all over it like flies on you know...what.


Don't kid yourself abra cuz your not fooling anyone else....you don't even care about answers to your questions....

We know your never going to believe just as MS is never going to believe she is God, the flowers are god, the bugs, dogs, trees and such are all God.....

And the sad thing abra that coming from you it is never a legit question....it just makes you look like the fool..

And my sweet sweet abra....Morning Star can do what ever she wants you are not nor never will be the boss of religion forms. And as such she can post what ever is on her heart.
And questions for you regarding it abra again you will never listen to the answer so honestly what is the purpose of you asking your round about questions when you really don't listen or care about the answers.

ANSWER:

What you post about the creator is what takes you out of Grace with Him....Is that simple enough for you abra...or would you like me to elaborate...


And it's not a matter of nobody "needs" to be nailed to the cross love...It's already a done deal....and instead of coming across as your way is better...maybe you should thank Jesus Christ for what "HE" has already done for this world.

We are all adults and please leave the children of this one ..... .

But that's where you're wrong.

You see, this is the problem with a religion that wants to have it's cake and eat it too.

The idea is that the biblcal God supposedly knows everything from the beginning. Therefore, he knows your choices before he even starts out.

So I refuse to allow Jesus to be nailed to a cross for my sins. I'm refusing to accept it BEFORE it ever happened, because God supposedly knows my choices BEFORE any of this ever happened.

If you want to have your cake and eat it too, you've got to go with the flow. Nothing is a 'done deal' for a God who can see into the future.

I really don't care what MorningSong or anyone else beleives. But if they're going to be advertising, I see nothing wrong with asking questions.

Why should I want to believe that the biblical picture of God is true?

What's the motivation behind it? It's a religion that claims that I've fallen from grace from my creator and theres no way to get back into grace without accepting that he nails someone to a pole for my sake.

Why would I want to believe in that with 'childlike faith'?

To me it seems like a terrible thing to want to believe.

I wouldn't want to believe in the story unless I had no other choice.

I have a feeling that MorningSong has plenty of angels watching over her and she has nothing to worry about. She is a fountain of love. It has just been slim picking for us heathens on this forum lately. We're starved for a little debate. LOL

It's just as well, as I said, I have to take a time out.

JB

feracat......

if one thinks the TRUTH will not be proven, then one is decieved, as indeed it will have power.......

if one has power in words, is this not the sign in words....

where are the power in your words, but rather demand of control and accusation..........

the truth is ALL THAT MATTERS.........

if morningsong or any other human post, then ALL reactions are what comes naturally, and ARE GOOD, or FREE EXPRESSION IS CONTROLLED, and WHOM shall be the judge of what words be good, as is not this more of the same then........

what words should be judged then as NOT GOOD......

the one whom cast the dagger IS A DAGGER THEMSELF, but what is wrong with daggers, as a dagger bring forth MORE truth, since the dagger is ALWAYS what has been resisted and RUN FROM, so never heard.........

how can one accuse and not in accussing be guilty of the same, lol...........

Feral,

Why should Abra not comment on posts written (in this case by MorningSong?) From what motivation do you find that request appropriate? If it is true, and I believe it is, that MorningSong knows Abra's beliefs and Abra knows hers, then why make the case that her post is above critique.

In this forum I've asked a number of questions that have never been answered. I accept that as part of the "way it goes" but any faith which claims to have all of the answers (i.e., be the only way to heaven) should be able to defend itself not against attack but against simple and fairly logical questions.

That many born again Christians have no answer for so many of the things that have repeatedly been raised here should a bit of a concern.

Or not--because when dogma runs out of answers it generally runs to hide under a blanket of faith.

-Drew

whatever comes out of a MOUTH is a profession, and ANY profession MUST be able to take any reaction and see and learm wisdom from it, or obviously, one is still learning, and what that thinks learning is DONE, has wisdom.............