I am going to find a nice lady on JSH >

Nobody really knows. Everybody has their ideas. I realize that a lot of dates have come and gone, but I think 2012 is key. I think if anything happens, it will be close to or around that time.

It could have something to do with the position of the stars, and the solar system's adjustment to the galactic equator of the milky way. There could be a tilt of the earth or solar system as it passes through the galactic equator on December 21, 2012.

Maybe it will happen gradually, with not much damage to earth inhabitants.

How would you feel if the sun stood still and then the earth began to revolve in the opposite direction and the sun rose in the west instead of the east? Wouldn't that be a wondrous event?

Maybe an alien being (called Sananda) will land his starship (called Hope) and claim to be Jesus returned. (New age belief.)

Maybe an alien princess from Orion will come to claim the earth as her new domain.

Maybe nothing at all will happen. That too could prove to be very interesting.

In any case, I'm not holding my breath.

ahhhhh you think huh......I am not wrong and I know why......and what when it does......I can see your "stuborn" face right now......Well dang she was right.....hmmmmm something to ponder there oh wise Tribo.

deb, i don't know, I'm not your god or jesus, nor a prophet of god. but i do know from former studies within your belief system that the preterist view far out way's the futurist views of present day evangelical belief's. i refer you to "international Preterist Association" for further knowledge on this matter as to what exactly is going to happen my memory serves me to think that the Church itself is now christ on earth but don't hold me to that, i have nt studied it in over 20 yrs. But when i challenged you to a debate what i found was your replies were all "futurist" there fore you either do not know a millenial or preterist views or what you know is what has been fed you by futurist beliefs and dogma's, cant say for sure. It takes but a minute to see though that if the word is rightly divided that the fig tree we were discussing is not the rebirth of israel as a nation, god destroyed Jerusalem forever in AD 70 never to rise again, jesus cursed Jerusalem and it was destroyed. the fig tree is a syblol in the bible to point out "fleshly israel" just as is other symbolic writing such as the use of Egypt, sodom,harlot,and other's - all which talk of fleshy Israel not spiritual Israel. spiritual Israel is almost always symbolized by the "olive tree", therefore when jesus cursed the fig tree and it died and withered it was to show the disciples the coming destruction of Israel and the temple and the doing away with sacrificial atonement to be replaced with christ atonement. if you look closely at what jesus says in Luke 21:vs 29-31- you will see that he says " And he spake to them (the disciples) a "parable" - Behold the "fig" tree - AND "ALL THE TREES" 30: When they now shoot forth ye see and know of your own selves that summer is nigh at hand. 31: So likewise when "you see" (not some future generation) "these" thing's come to pass, no ye that the kingdom of god is nigh at hand."

now if the fig tree is to be held by futurist view as Jews becoming a nation again in 1948 or any other year, then what jesus is also stating would mean all the other trees/nations would be coming nations again in 1948? that makes no biblical sense what so ever does it?In context what jesus was stating is this to his disciples - know ye that the signs i have just given you will be evident and close at hand when the fig AND ALL THE OTHER TREES shoot forth as a sign that summer is near.or the destruction of the end times for gods chosen people was near the end. he continues with vs: 31 - So likewise ye, when "YE SEE" (those diciples present see)these thing's come to pass, know ye(WHO_"YE" the deciples) that the kingdom of god (the kingdom of god is within you) is nigh at hand. 32 Verily i say unto you, "THIS GENERATION" ( not some future generation) shall not pass away till all be fufilled.

all in all he gives dozens of signs of the last days of israel and the destruction of the temple nad all that will take place, according to history all he said did take place and is recorded by josephus, and others to miraculous signs both in and out of the city as well as in the clouds and sky's. the state of israel as JB has tried to state and i also is a zionist politically motivated movement that does not belong there anymore and has nothing to do with the land that was taken from them forever in AD 70, nor will there ever be another temple or Antichrist or abomination of desolation, or rapture, or final judgement - the final judgement took place then it was against the harlot, the adulteress, the fleshy fig tree, the people, religious leaders and nation of Israeli. since then and until we no longer are here the body of christ has become the "new jerusalem" in the sight of your god. The only way jews can be saved now is to believe in christ according to your beliefs. preterist or futurist. i encourage you to learn all of preterist views they outway your futurist views a million to one and rightly divide the word of your god.

most sincerely - your friendly nazi demon - tribo

I stopped reading after the first two sentences tribo and this is why......I don't care about what you think you may know....I know what I know from my personal relationship with the Christ Jesus. And for you arrogance to even say Deb, I don't know I'm not your god or jesus......this is so true you are not.......And that to me just shows so so much arrogance.

And studying all is not limited to you tribo...

I have not answered you with good reason as far as the e-mail....when it so put on my heart...then and only then will I respond. It's not out of being scared, or wrong, or whatever you may think......please.....I have come into battle with many many much worse then you tribo.


You know I love you as a fellow human being.....but just because you may think something is so...It just doesn't make it so. As with anything I respond to in religion...I can only speak for what I "know" for "my" truths.....and for what Christ put on my heart...

sorry deb, then may you lead a long life and see what your god says is true - "my people die from a lack of knowledge" not my problem, love - it's yours.

your "arrogant" neighborhood nazi demon, tribo - new title keeps geting longer and longer, hmmm?

Well, if this were true - I'm curious as to how you handle the prophecies of Revelation and the obvious omission of the complete rapture of the church throughout history. Surely this "immediate disapearance" of the church would not go unnoticed by the secular writers of the time. Where is mention of the plagues which would have occured over a 3 and a half year period of time, vertualy eliminating a third of the worlds population. How is it that time has not managed to report this event. Would it have not been worthy of reporting!? And after the first millenium of Christ's reign (which would have brought us up to - what 1070) why is the world still here? And that would also premise that the crusades occured during Jesus' reign, as well as the destruction of the church from the Muslims.

But hey - believe what you want. Me thinks that the next time you state you've read the bible, that you might want to include Revelation in your reading. Or at least give some examples of those passages that stand in direct conflict to your conclusion and show case as to why they're being interpreted incorrectly.

Again Eljay, i reffer you to the International preterist Association main page you can find or order all that interest you on the subject of end times revelation, all of what jesus, the deciples, and revelations says is explained. i as i told you have been out of it for 2 decades now and am in no position to become there spokes person or gods. please do so i think you will be well informed and better equippped to know the word from both sides - i have already posted such as you ask to a degree in the other post and here as to that do you not read?? see "what are your views?1" i posted a lenghty view there dont blame me if your to lazy to read -

sincerely, your arrogant neighborhood nazi demon, tribo

Why do you assume that people with like mind as yourself are the only ones with knowledge. I wasn't placing an arrogant label on you tribo....you did that...I made reference to your comment to being my god or my jesus as arrogant. I also never have called you a nazi, demon or any other name....no have I.

Tribo;

While I recognize that this is not your personal belief, and since you've introduced this topic, I have investigated Preterism and amillenialism - I have not found it vialble enough to abandon Dispensationalism as a more accurate eschatology.

However - I will agree with your statement that as a believer, it makes sense to familiarize oneself with this exegesis - but I draw the line on your "claiming it as fact" just because there was a short period in time where a selected few
believed in this interpretation. Especially since time has managed to expose this theory to fall short of the truth. Here we are nearly a full millenium beyond what would have been the end of the world to those Preterists, and naturally, none of them are around to say "Gee - maybe we were wrong."

I would also take into consideration the shear numbers of Preterists today - hardly an overwhealming minority - let alone majority, as a pretty good indication that this exegesis falls short of viable biblical eschatology.

deb:

Why do you assume that people with like mind as yourself are the only ones with knowledge. I wasn't placing an arrogant label on you tribo....you did that...I made reference to your comment to being my god or my jesus as arrogant. I also never have called you a nazi, demon or any other name....no have I.


tribo:

i dont feel anyone is of like mind here but me, if i mentined JB it is only in the sense that we both see from different points of view and knowledge that Israel is not some one fullfilling prophecy, that they are a political zionist movement and area that should not exist under the premise of "god" restoring there land to them. there placement there had nothing to do with god.
as far as the label - i was not being arrogant - just truthful, no you have not called me a nazi or demon but so far that has added to my title, if you did not mean to call me arrogant fine, i will delete it from my signature. for now - hahaha mean while you've missed the whole point of my last post to you and have therefore shown yourself to ignore other conciderations of real truth, what to do ? hmmm???

have a nice 4th deb, kapow, bang, noise.

i can tell from your response eljay you fell into the same thing i did, fortunately i did not read it til i was out of futurist beliefs altogether, therefore i had no evangelical writers saying what you've just said, reading briefly gets you no where - "as you or others state to me" - to really know something study in depth!! just like you have your present beliefs - dispensational/evangelical writings are surely going to tell you how wrong other beliefs are, of course - there defending their views, god forbid someone look deeply into another held belief and come away convinced of other things.

ill leave it up to you though your life not mine.

History tell us the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD Daniel 9:2 "Legs of iron" and Daniel 9:7 "beast"

Gabriel declared that the Roman people would belong to a coming prince (literally), "a prince the one coming."

this prince would be a Roman ruler. (Not Messiah the prince referred to in vs 25, because Messiah is not a Roman, and the Romans who destroyed the temple did not belong to Messiah)

The "little horn" is the antichrist who had been revealed to Daniel in chap 7.

"Seventy Seven's are determined.....(360 day years)

70X7 - 490 years

These 490 year are the later portion of God's judgment and having nothing to do with the 70 year judgment that is about to end.

"The end will come like a flood."

1. "Flood", the out pouring of God's wrath refers the the "coming prince" not the city. God's out pouring of wrath on the Antichrist at the second coming of Christ.

2. "War will continue to the end and sesolations have been decreed." (determined)

3. Antichrist will continue to wage war against God and God's people until His Judgement at the second coming of Christ, the end of the 490 years of Daniel's prophecy.

4. "Desolations are deternined."

God has already determined (irrevocably) the extent of desolations necessary to bring Israel back to Himself through it's Messiah, Jesus.

5. Event that would transpire during the 70th week (one week or 7 years) Rev. 6 thru 19 (The last 7 years prior to Christ's second coming {"The Tribulation Period"

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one "seven" No where in scripture does it reveal that Jesus made a covenant with people for seven year. The "he" in vs 27 is the antichrist.

Israel will be a nation (1948)

Convenant will begin the 7-th week.
This week will begin with the enforcement of a covenant "with the many" Israel, with the coming world ruler (antichrist) see vs 24.

Antichrist will be the kind of a revived Roman Empire before making the convenant. (Dan. 7:8, 20, 23, 25)

Antichrist will regard any attack on Israel as an attackk on himself. (Ez. 38:39)

This "leader" cannot appear until after the restrainer (the Holy Spirit as He indwells the church) is removed 2 Thess, 2:7-9 (my position)

The rapture of the Church procedes the entire 70th week of Daniel (33 OT and 13 NT) (my position)

"in the middle of the seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offereing."

A friend turn foe. The greatest ever!

The nation of Israel will have a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem, and will have reinstated the sacrificial system. (Mt. 24:15, 21, 20-31: s Thess, 2:2-4)

Why? To clear his way for the worship of Antichrist himself.

"And on a wind of the temple he will set up an "abomination that makes desolation until the end that is decreed is poured out" (like a flood vs 26)

The extreme win (the worst or higest) of all abominations. Antichrist will magnify himself to the level of deity by announcing that he is God, by demanding worship and setting up an image of himself. it will represent the extreme point of man's humanistic rebellion against the soverign God (The claim of deity by a man)

"desolation" - Read Mt 24:15-31 and Rev. 12:5-6, 13-15. The Great Tribulation once the Antichrist makes his claim to be god he will have authority for 42 months, 1,260 days, or 3 1/2 years, to desolate the people of Israel and the city of Jerusalem.

Antichrist desolating of Israel will have a limit, God has sovereignly deternined the extent of desolations necessary to bring Israel back to Himself through its Messiah, Jesus to follow are the six blessings.

your biblical quotes are correct - everything else is wrong - see the site i pointed you to, "i wont post it again" then we can discuss what you deem wrong after seeing their handling of all you stated here - do you think they have not been asked these things hundred's of times? they have answers for all of this not i. as i told eljay i am not there spokesman - but you are sadly mistaken of what you right. look at what Ive already put up about the destruction of the temple all of it!! You want to keep posting your beliefs on this without even reading what I've posted already?? this will go nowhere your being foolish deb, read and then we can discuss if you wish, posting evangelical things is ridiculous if your not applying it to the other view posted or other info from them - its a one sided view- usually if I'm explaining something as like the aforementioned view you have of the fig tre being israel reborn again in 1948 - i show what it is that one has stated and do my reply- here you are just posting with no attachment to what it is your posting against?? does that make sense? either read ""ALL"" of what I've posted and respond with what you do not agree with or if it's nowhere in it then go to the sight and ask your question of them and get back with their response to discuss it. other wise your just continuing to voice a one sided debate with no one - especially not me. If this makes you feel better fine, but its not going to settle anything.

Wrong according to who Tribo......You......and when did you become the authority on any of it.....and not only that but still you have never shown me anything that I can't take apart either through scripture or history...I am posting against you saying that Christ has already come back.......I say he has not....and also gave you my beliefs on the nonsense you wrote to me in the e-mail. You need to write serious stuff before I can take any of it serious....And tell me how many sides would you think I should have Tribo....I am not all over the board with my beliefs...they are very simple....God, Jesus.....and the The Bible to me is the infallible, inspired, inherent Word of the Living God. I believe each and every word from Genesis to Revelation, cover to cover. I do read all your posts with the exception of the one...because honestly It is nothing new then what all athiest, panthiest and alien believers believe in.

tribo,

quoting you...

my memory serves me to think that the Church itself is now christ on earth but don't hold me to that, i have nt studied it in over 20 yrs.


True, that would be so, assuming thart the Church you speak of is those filled with the Holy Spirit.

But we preach Christ crucified, basically.

And we are about His business, not our own.

And we are about His righteousness, not our own.

And in His absense, we are His ambassadors.

and to the end that we serve Him in the generation we are given to be born in and born again from, as though the world is the womb and birth canal for a spiritual life hid in Christ Jesus.

But again, to our generation, not His.

His generation is the Church itself.

When that is full, the world and the Church shall know its' time and place and the season of its' completion.

But, and I emphasize but, the Cvhurch of Jesus Christ is the body, and christ is yet as always the head and the Mind of Christ is given us in the Holy Spirit for the perfecting of our conformance to Christ in perfection and to empower us to preach the truth.


To the end that His Church be filled and that every generation of man be given opportunity to enter into His promises and partake of them by grace through faith in Him. It is the faith if Jesus that is the issue.


As far as the future goes, I would add this, extra-biblical as it is, coming from me.

The day that no man, woman or child receives Jesus Chroist as their savior and Lord, is a day in vain.

A day in vain is a waste in God's mind, according to all that we know in the Holy Spirit.

That day will mark the completion of the filling of the Church of Jesus Christ among man in the earth.

When the Church is full, it is a finished work.

That has not happened yet.

It will.

In the meantime, we are about our Father's business in Christ, and in Christ alone.

It is His Church, not ours.

He reigns and leads us, not anything but.

He has no intention of leaving any out, nor do we, that are willing and called and so choosing, as well as so having been chosen.

He hears the private cry of the heart and sends His people to those, that they may partake as well.

And ample time should be given them to grow in wisdom and understanding and knowledge i=of Him, from the Holy Spirit and from us as the echo of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps the vanity will appear for a season because of grace, mercy and peace for those being perfected in Him, b7ut the vanity of a day wherein none calls upon the Lord is a day not to be wished for.

That will be a day of darkness which is incomprehensibly sure to weigh heavily on the Church so anointed with the Mind of Christ.

I have not been given witness of such a day, but know it is coming.

Sooner or later, such a day will come.

What follows is anything but grace mercy and peace and the end of this present age will occur, subsequently.

Let the door not close on any, just yet.

What will follow will make these present days pale in comparison to the darkness to come upon all flesh, not already hid in Christ.

It is clear to me, that most look back on ancient days somewhat romantically at best, and contemptuously at worst, but none really comprehends the darkness that was when heaven was shut to man, and sins and errors prevented forgiveness and mercy and grace from abounding in liberty, as it is today.

This age is about the Church of Jesus Christ being filled.

Beyond that, the world (outside of Christ)is still judged on works, not on His righteousness beiung employed to our hearts for oour good and His name's sake.

This is a distinction that is often overlooked and ignored. But it is a distinction that stands on its' own merits.

The meritoriousness of this dispensation is not about the efficacy and perfection of the Church altogether, but about Jesus Christ, et al.

It is what it is, as long as it remains the present dispensation of the grace of God in Christ Jesus.

Beyond that, man has less control over the destiny of the objective, mission and purpose given all equally in this age.

It is not a doctrinal "pin the tail on the donkey" type of intellectualism that matters at all.

That is irrelevant.

Though amusing as a form of excuse.

Quite opposite of reason.

tears rolling down my face......you so humble me wouldee......I wish I had you in my ear at all times.....You are in the truest form and always show the love you have for the Lord.....And when I grow up I want to be just like you.

congratulations woody you prove nothing but you sure say alot, you - deb - morning star, and others are steadfast in your misinformation i will give you credit for that, pitbulls may be ferocious, but that does not make them right. anyway, its beliefs held in your sectarian theologies and all else, you can believe whatever you want if you right that's fine you can continue to look forward to his return, if your wrong the as usual you will see signs of his nearness and elaborate as you have been doing for a hundred years now and claiming to know the signs lindsey's been wrong and will be wrong again, and benny hinn will do no better in my opinion, it matters not i neither live for the past or the future i live only in the now that's really all anyone has, but for you? you keep espousing things that don't hold water, so i can never accept them as truths.

you assume far too much, tribo.

I am competitive too, but I limit it to racing cars.

The Holy Spirit, I know.

Jesus, I know.

You, I do not know, but out of respect I wouldn't dare to risk comparing you to anyone. That would be a speculation beneath the dignity taught me by the Holy Spirit.

In that, we are different, tribo.

yes true wouldee, we are different in respect to thing of the spirit, no question there. As i have said to others here, i wish you no harm, you can believe what you want or will. if your correct time will tell, if not time will tell that also.
what we believe will not affect either one in the all of things, blessings (meaning happiness) be upon you. i was once like you so i know their is little to persuade you from your stance, nor do i care to continue, not worth my time. good evening,

tribo.