thanks, i needed a laugh.

1% of Muslims, 10 million who are terrorists. spread say over West Asia.
That's a big sized army. So what's the solution?



We have asked this question in India and this is what we could come up with. Let me backtrack a bit.

Based on the terrorists caught / profiled infiltrating into India through Indo-Pak borders we find that most of these fellows are displaced Afghans (actually farm labor) trained to use explosives and not Islamic fanatics. It's an open secret that the Pak Army sends a barrage of shells across the border so that the fellows can infiltrate. On questioning (old news), the men talk about the promise by the P_army to compensate their families in case they don't return to the tune of 1Lac, that's $2000.

1. So it's possible that around 70% of all those in T_armies like ISIS could be paid labor? I could be wrong but citizens protesting in Asia, don't own guns.

2. On the other hand, terrorists who are Indians caught working against India are from a middle-class background!! In most cases they are inspired by some channel news on atrocities committed on their community, etc.

3. A Paki General is supposed to have told the media, we will exhaust India with a thousand cuts. The present Indian Government is aware that Pakistan's army works independently of their government. So we have what is a 'proxy war' going on.

4. Muslim Bishops (Mullah's) may seem not to be interfering but their silence cannot be explained.

Conclusion is: any terror organizations like Boko Haram exist because they are armed, trained and funded and their governments allow them to exist.

If Egyptians have struck the Towers why was the Egyptian Government not forced to compensate? After all Islamic Law says that the family should compensate for the 'evil' committed by their off-springs.

Salaam Maliquem,,,
I thought what Sassy mentioned was
Very acutely said and so if I may add my 2 cents.

Islamic culture is wherein people born into have limited choices, especially women, ok nothing new there. What we may have forgotten is that this culture was imposed on people living in extremely 'barbaric' conditions; maybe a medieval culture that could not progress and the question is why?

Update: If we look at other Asian cultures: Hinduism, Buddhism or even Sikhism, one can opt out of the rituals or visiting temples and still retain his Hindu identity. (Villages remain a bit more conservative, but the option is there).

In Islam there are 'no' options. All Muslims, including the elite; are constrained by the Edith of the Koran.

A mild example would be our President of India who was Muslim; Late Mr. Abdul Kalam. The Muslim community refused to consider him among their own since Mr. Kalam had read the Bible and the Gita (Hindu) and used to often quote from these books along with the Koran. As I understand, the Koran implicitly forbids Muslims from reading any 'Word' outside of the Koran.

The general Muslim public (not those on the fringes, poor or extremists):
I have found Saudi Muslims humanely courteous to non-muslims and have heard about the help extended in road accidents. They don't wait for any 911 aid. (We Indian's, esp. in the cities; have lost this, maybe the grind has got into us.)

Regarding Muslim women:
Muslims just don't want you to eye ball their women. This probably runs through all communities and all men, it's just that Muslims are aggressive about it.

Alternative to Islam:
A society bogged down in poverty and in a harsh environment. Talk of averages, the Saudi is not starving and is barely middle-class, the Indian Muslim, likewise. 'what keeps them going?' The will talk about their faith. So who can take away this only thing they have, that which gives them a sense of belonging; an identity and perhaps some pride! I don't think Muslim youth in India are working in call centers. They wouldn't change their name from Saddam to Adam.

Initially I was surprised when the Saudi's stamped my passport with a notice 'carrying drugs will invite the death penalty'. After living there made greater sense: The young Saudi Muslim is crazier than most young people anywhere else and they would try anything at least once. In those deserts were mirages is the 'normal' drugs could ...

The Islamic Political Church
The problem is not in being a Muslim as much as in their church leadership which acquires political power. In the US, religion has no standing in politics. Thank God for this one country. Rest of the world sadly is not there.

Islam, has its divinity but it also has political canons which when translated by so called holy scholars with chilling effect. For instance a translation such as the death of a non-believer does not count is easily interpreted as: such a death may even carry merit in the afterlife. So a 9/11 or other terrorism is no cause for agony.

Not true among the educated. There's a deep sense of shame that cannot be wiped out by verbal repentance.

On the other hand no Islamic leader has come out and apologized on behalf of Muslims This is not because of the Koran but because of the Translations or what is the ongoing definition of the current Mullah on Allah's world. The Muslim, however highly placed, cannot dissent against the Mullahs; unless say he's in the Pakistani Army.

So what does all this add up to? Just that it's the Muslim alone who will reform his society; 30% of the World population. Befriending him may not be possible for many of us but turning away from him during this period of terrorism including their internal terrorism is also not a solution. I find that Islamic leaders like Afghanistan's President and others are slowly turning the tide.

A telling point (i could be wrong, maybe not). While on 9/11, Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with it. After all he was the guy who outsourced the fighters from Saudi (and after exile) from neighboring countries to push out the Russians; a proxy general for the CIA. Then after his lifetime sacrifice, the American government wanted a democracy, wanted to deny him the Afghanistan he had won(?) So now he was the enemy!

All he said in an interview was (at that time the enemy was not known and he said this not with any malice) 'it must have been Muslims'. Else, why would Pakistan's army shelter him near their base in Abbotbad? The fanatics who flew into the towers were all Egyptians; no connections at all to Laden(i could be wrong).

But the people wanted 'retribution'. So Bin Laden. Same thing when we hate 'all Muslims'. I could be wrong but 'hate' sometimes does the opposite, it strengthens the enemy, does not get us to the real enemy.

In this age of routine terrorism, what the world needs is a President like Jimmy Carter. Steel hands in velvet gloves.

As you know we are hedged in by China and Pakistan and all 3 of us don't trust each other. haha, what a life. So we have some defense technology in place and that's naturally grown to our space programs.

To be a strong player, one must be able to recover; like landing astronauts and recovering them back. We don't mind throwing objects out to space, European institutes hire our services to do that, launch their smaller experimentals and we release them like grapes into orbits. Once a while, there's some collaboration with NASA; like NASA telling us where our satellites are: 'cause it's blocking the view', stuff like that.

No I don't think we are in a hurry. We are waiting for you Americans to start that mining up there & then apply for them green cards. That way we know we are returning. So you guys hurry it up.

I must add that the Chinese Government has mellowed a bit but they have
a long standing agreement with Pak's army and as we know Pak's Government
listen's to their military. So another 100 years before there's any collaborative effort.

I see a unified collaborative effort at some point: this following NASA's entrepreneurship. That's if the other Nations are to achieve any meaningful success. If ISA can happen without a single nation taking all
credit - that's something. European Space seems to be working on these lines under UK leadership. Read about the Russian Mir & Chinese CSA getting their act together. Long term looks good.

Realize what you are saying.
Thanks for putting across kindly.

Regarding Mars, as it's you who got us interested in all this in the first place, you know very well it's a technology driver & an economy driver thereafter.

Then there's the ripple effect. In India, I've seen technology reduce red tape & corruption(?)

Thanks MM,
Didn't know the brutal facts.
Since this i feel is vital knowledge could you please correct my math?

Say a home loan was provided to me (& i've a low credit rating).

Take a loan for 60k, down payment 5%: $3000
Now I'm committed for the next 20 years at $600 / month?

And I default after say 6 months (Wall St. or not, Home is repossessed anyway). I should have stayed with my $300 /month rental apartment in the first place.

So my losses are:
Down payment: $3000/-
& $300 x 6 = $1200 (since $300/pm would've been for rent anyway)
Total of $4,200

That's probably a year's saving's for low income group.
Hard, but not devastating?
An accountant's point of view, (keeping aside the family hardship).
---
My understanding was these high risk mortgages were bundled as securities
and sold to 'other' institutions: something Wall St. covered in smoke.
Now when the default's started coming in, S&L' would repossess?
---

Discussing Mar's pales if one doesn't get one's basic survival right.
So please do help.

A bank cannot increase interest charges if other's default on loans;
it's based on Fed's charges. & Fed's charges were low at that time?

'Money', is just a red herring foisted after the sub-prime. The money siphoned out by Wall Street remains within the US; maybe in the hands of few individuals & corporates, but within the US banking system. The billions leant out to Fanny Mac & Mae: was printed money so nobody got really hurt (except public institutions like the universities & their research grants).

The real issue was the trillion siphoned out from the European banking system which remains undisclosed. This is what tipped the balance for Greece and the European economy; (Asian also). Under these circumstances, flaunting expensive space trips to the World would not be wise; so the ‘short of funds’ game.

Of course, all this is my belief, highlighting the economic and political games with research; but this does not wash out the real problem which is,
what would the astronauts do if and after they land on Mars, say within
the next decade or so. 250 million miles is no longer a distance.

Ok, so we all know that it takes another 2years of orbital time before Mars gets back to this 'closing distance' and that any landing would mean 2 years solitary plus the 6 months up down voyage time. That accentuates the problem.

Again, surviving two years is not that big a problem (except for frayed nerves) but for four factors:
1. radiation levels - astro-suits would wear out faster
2. colossal dust storms - wear out most equipment including robots
3. the near cryogenic temperatures of winter: - 63degC.
(Temperatures in Antarctica is -90degC, a shorter winter).


So many landings, orbitals, fly-bys... between -10 and 30 deg latitudes

Now if we take notes outside of NASA:
The European Space Agency, (includes the English who crashed their beagle in 2003), is planning to land robots in a future mission. The English seem to focus on craters - the volcanic variety: Olympus Mons: largest volcano, 22kms, (3 times higher than Everest), wider than England. Now, all of a sudden, English school boys have lessons on 'Dear Mars'.

The Russians have developed a modern launching facility. Now they are in discussions with the Chinese for joint missions. Personally, I don't think they are going to 'fumble' this race.

Indians, okay, we have our ISRO, and we are quite contended with launching orbital missions. We follow, where others lead but our costs are way down.

So there's a lot of effort going on but it does not solve the basic problem: what do we do on Mars; run another observatory? Tap the 'high pressure sub-terrain' water source?

4. And that brings us to the 4th problem: the energy source to sustain life. Solar plants may be feasible; with people on the ground cleaning or shielding it during the storms. I think Hollywood got it right in their film: Total Recall - Nuclear power plants. I suppose till this kind of technology, skid mounted nuclear power plants 'like those diesel generators', we would not have the beginnings of a real mission which may include some Terra-forming and other dreams.

So I do agree with Charles (present head of NASA) when he tells Congress that focus should remain on Mars and the technology requirements.

Meantime, there's this 'friendly' survey grid system:

I think the closest feel we could get about mars terrain; habitable that is;
is 'Ulluru', Australia. Sandstone rock, 348m above ground with 2.5kms of
its bulk, underground (not clear on the 'underground' significance but...)

But that's what night life on mars would be, a clear view of the milky way.
http://uluru-australia.com/ayers-rock-tours-experiences/stargazing-at-uluru/
Daytime, the rock heats up even with the boots on.

The sand keeps getting in. Locating a wind shield here.
looks like the picture didn't travel back.



on second try, yes.

$74 million, to view the real estate from 2000Kms.
Maybe sending a mobile phone on a closer orbit would have worked better.

Refer Sassy's post on smart phones for earthquake monitoring - so why not?

What would become of Texas after they shale out the oil.
Another 100 years.

Right. This now folks is the Arizona Dessert. As we can see, hoof marks, indicates Buffaloes who still roam free.

And you hilly billy_s thought is was the Grand Canyon.

Jimmy Carter!!
Camp David. He locked em inside, those two nuts: Egyptian Sadat and Israeli's Begin; till a treaty / agreement. Even if the Muslim Brothers in Egypt come to power now, they cannot break this 'sovereign agreement'. That's how many of us here understand it.

Israel's other military led neighbors: Jordan, Syria, lost all further interest. That Sadat was assassinated, was a price for civilization.

During his term, the Soviet's walked into Afghanistan, thought the world was theirs for the taking; and then got trapped in for years. It's this side of Jimmy, we didn't know. A farmer knows more about traps.

But many of us could not fathom a deeper side; an ability to come out on behalf of the US and broker new settlements; work under new Presidents, technically speaking, junior to him. Mr. Carter never hesitated.

Jimmy Sahib, a peacemaker with a gun he never had to pull.
Salaam, Sahib.

Reminds me of a doctoral student researching on 'carbon vapor' behavior. Guy was researching on carbon molecules (vacuum chamber) adhering to an IC circuit.
He didn't mentioned how he sourced the 'C' to vapor state.

Lovely, ovely;
i mean lovely age.



'animals'?
We generally respect age; and as we grow older, with kids we become like kids; that elasticity is possible only when you grow beyond a point.
Could appear as immature to a bystander but i suppose this is not what you mean. Maybe being competitive, don't share or something; like young animals?

Actually, being mature can also turn to become a handicap.. something like
people biting the hand that feeds.

And for heaven's sake, explain those 3 vowels in your name. I have
given up trying to pronounce it and although saying it is not matue;
but not saying is

Seriously, it's when a person goes out on vacation; time out to reflect
& that's a luxury comes more often with aging.

I don't think rudeness is a problem where women as newscasters are concerned.
Adds to the general color; with their little bit of nudiness who would notice.



I think there's another side to this like getting to know what makes people tick, and so on; but as this debate is un-winnable; letting it go.



250,000 people!!
i get exhausted dealing with 2 pwople a day.


Yep, a warning growl is preferred to 'edit'
Ceasar's problem was he sorrounded himself with the well healed and smiling.

this reminds me of the missionary who traveled deep into Africa and whot not. after toiling with the natives and earning their trust, he began teaching them about the 'higher life'. His passionate recitals from the Bible enthralled the villagers who gathered each evening for more; even made the old witch doctor recede to backdrop. Then it was time to move on to the next village and so on the last day at the end of the sermon as he finally closed the holy book, he asked them if they had any doubts and to clear it with him now.

There was silence then one black face lit up with an ivory smile, raised his hand; as was the new practices.

"Yes, brother Leeu Jagter Bin Laden Bin Laden", Preacher quite pleased that he could recall their names; this one meant: Grandson of Lion Hunter;
"speak openly and come out with your doubts."

All eyes were on the young man as he arose from the crowd; this was their fearless warrior and he asked: Bwana, great medicine man, our spirits rise
up each evening when we gather here to listen you read the Holy Book but tell us before you go: who is this Jesus?

I think Shirley says it all.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlgt7s_shirley-bassey-diamonds-are-forever-from-divas-are-forever-dvd_music

Hi Pansy,
Lovely links, utterly lovely. Nice if you could throw in your evaluation on the medical side; since you already are in health care. Let's know if it's still in lab stage, for some strange reason 'fools gold' comes to my mind; or has it come out into practice.

Anyway, revisited this old visual treat:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dovek_james-bond-diamonds-are-forever_tv
wonder where they get those Bond girls from.