Community > Posts By > tiamabreid

 
tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 06:17 PM






Think of all the different types of taxes the rich may pay.

Federal Income tax
State Income tax
Sales tax on items purchased
Property tax on real property
Intangible tax on interest or securities
Capital gains tax on property sold
Inheritance tax
Tax on corporate earnings
1/2 of employment taxes for employees such as Medicare and Social Security tax
Unemployment compensation tax

People with money look for return on investment for their money invested. Part of calculating that return is to look at the tax ramifications of making that investment. Everything we do in this country starts with investment capital, from the bonds that are sold to build highways to the common stock people buy in General Motors. If you tax capital gains by too much, such as those when a stock is sold after going up in value, then people with money will simply find an alternative place to put their money where the yield is higher and not as likely to go to the government in taxes.
Rich people have choices. They hire accountants so they will wind up paying the least in taxes. Raising taxes on the rich simply means there will be less investment capital for the businesses who hire people like us. The economy grows by having people invest in it. For all of you who want to stick it to the rich I hope you realize that you might just wind up unemployed.

:smile: A lot of people are already unemployed:smile:


6.5%

They're anticipating it to reach 8% before it's all over.
:smile: Yeah, the economy is going down the drain just doing what we have been doing for the past 8 years.:smile: Something has to be changed.:smile:


In 2000, it was 4.0%.

If you didn't see my edit, they're anticipating 8% before it's all over.



scared


And this brings me back to another point made in another thread, or even one made on this thread earlier. This is why we don't want to increase minimum wage.

If minimum wage were increased further, the less jobs there will be to go around, and the more things will cost to pay for the rising prices due to wage increases (and thus higher taxes companies have to match on a 941 pmt).

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 06:09 PM



The biggest mistake that the Republicans made was to not stand up to the special interests (Democrats such as Barney Frank) who demanded that sub-prime mortgages be made available to those who were not financially qualified to be home owners. We would have been better off simply giving the money to the poor to buy houses. That would have been redistribution of wealth. Oh well. In this case we could have said, better a handout than an opportunity.
If you live in America today with a roof over your head and a car in the driveway you are considered to be in the wealthy top 10% economically of all the people on the earth. Maybe the bottom 90% should come here and demand that you share the wealth with them. It could get ugly.


The last two sentences - I love them! That's great, couldn't have been said better.

Tina
This is the Greatest country. You can do anything you put your mind too..It really is endless possibilities. And beleive it or not we already take care of our poor but in ways that are over priced. We pay in ways that effect us all. I just would like to see alittle beter return on my money!!


And I completely agree!

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 06:08 PM

What's your point? Should my opinion have been different?


No, it would just be nice sometimes to all of those who have been following this conversation from the beginning if they didnt have to backtrack every time a person doesnt want to go back and read.

No offense. Just a statement.


tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 05:51 PM

Cool thread. Of the 3 major major cable "news" outlets I believe CNN spends the most time reporting "news" while Fox and MSNBC are primarily outlets of right and left commentary respectively. In prime time, while I vehemently disagree with Hannity and usually with O'Reilly, I do see them having guests with opposing views. Hell, Hannity's sidekick Clomes is a "LIB" as quickie would label him. As for MSNBC, I am politically aligned with their editorial viewpoint, but I believe they are less balanced than Fox. I love Keith Olberman, but there's hardly ever a dissenting view on his show. Pat Buchanan offers a conservative viewpoint on MSNBC, but aside from he and Joe Scarborough, there's little from the right on MSNBC.

As for the "fairness doctrine," it absolutely should be a requirement of reporting news, but not commenting on it.


Drew,

Due to people not reading the first few pages of a thread and jumping to the end, you are probably going to have to repeat yourself over and over and try to get your point across over and over as new people join the conversation at the most recent page. Someone else did this to me on another thread.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 05:42 PM

The biggest mistake that the Republicans made was to not stand up to the special interests (Democrats such as Barney Frank) who demanded that sub-prime mortgages be made available to those who were not financially qualified to be home owners. We would have been better off simply giving the money to the poor to buy houses. That would have been redistribution of wealth. Oh well. In this case we could have said, better a handout than an opportunity.
If you live in America today with a roof over your head and a car in the driveway you are considered to be in the wealthy top 10% economically of all the people on the earth. Maybe the bottom 90% should come here and demand that you share the wealth with them. It could get ugly.


The last two sentences - I love them! That's great, couldn't have been said better.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 03:35 PM
Motivation is something that takes work as well. I have had my days when I didn't want to do anything, but I did. I did because I am a single mother, and that's what single mothers do. We suck it up and do it.

Sometimes the motivation is not always the first part of moving forward, it's telling yourself, "I'm GOING to do this, no matter what" and then doing it. Once a person have gone past one huge obstacle, they can look back knowing that they made it this far, and keep going off of motivation.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 03:24 PM


Thanks Gio,

This does get pretty tiring (you know what I mean). I will always hold my ground, though.

Some people think they have had a hard time in their lives, well, until you have had to be locked in a room in an Arab country, beat to hell, try to escape, eventually end up escaping but with only one of your children, come back to the US (kiss the ground upon arrival), live in extreme poverty, fight, fight, fight, and eventually get where I am on the right track and keep heading that direction, no one has the right to tell me it is not possible to better themselves. It is hard work, and that's just it, many people are not strong enough to handle it.

Then, to have people telling me that I need to give more than 3 times the taxes they are paying to help support them and their families, it is pretty ridiculous.

Tina



Tina,
I would never imply that you or anyone should be required to do anything to help people. I wouldn't want to be "forced" to give up my hard earned money to anyone either. And I don't agree that people should loaf around on welfare, drinking in government funds just for the sake of being lazy....but there are people who DO work hard and still need assistance.

And to help out others in basic human to human caring about each other, I would like to think that most would want to donate some of their good fortune by giving to those in need...now that comes from my Christian upbringing, but that is probably heading off on a tangent...

And yes, compared to your for instance of being in trapped or held hostage in another country, most people here in the US don't have it quite that bad. But there are some people who struggle all their lives to get out of poverty and the lowest possible cards that they were handed about where they were born and such, and still never make it. And yes, their situation might be changable in certain cicumstances, but it's just not always possible.


And if you look back a few pages, that's exactly what I was saying.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 03:04 PM
Thanks Gio,

This does get pretty tiring (you know what I mean). I will always hold my ground, though.

Some people think they have had a hard time in their lives, well, until you have had to be locked in a room in an Arab country, beat to hell, try to escape, eventually end up escaping but with only one of your children, come back to the US (kiss the ground upon arrival), live in extreme poverty, fight, fight, fight, and eventually get where I am on the right track and keep heading that direction, no one has the right to tell me it is not possible to better themselves. It is hard work, and that's just it, many people are not strong enough to handle it.

Then, to have people telling me that I need to give more than 3 times the taxes they are paying to help support them and their families, it is pretty ridiculous.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 02:52 PM



Well....you can go ahead and " refuse " all you want...but guess what.

You aren't going to have a choice in the matter. If you make more than 250K....yer in it whether you like it or not.

Unless, of course, you decide to move to Canada or something.


Canada, what a great idea! All the wealthy people will move to Canada and leave the poor people here and THEN they will HAVE to work, right?





Wow, Tia...that seemed quite snobby! I think the big issue here is the misconception that "poor people" don't work. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I bust my a$$ every week to earn money, and I still can't afford a pot to pee in!

So while you are saying that poor people don't work, I'd like to inform you that just because some people are rich doesn't mean they work their a$$e$ off for what they have either! Perfect example is Paris Hilton...the chick hasn't worked a day in her whole life! The little princess probably doesn't even know how to check her oil in her car! So don't spew a load of crap saying rich people are the only ones who work, because that's BS and everyone knows it!

Now do I think people should get a free ride and not have to work for it? No, absolutely not. I'm just saying that it seems the rich get seem to get better padding...not only from their extra money, but in tax breaks, etc. That's all...




Read ALL of the posts of mine and the conversation that preceeds and follows, then comment. You shouldnt just pick one part of a conversation - it throws everything out of context.

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 01:26 PM
Edited by tiamabreid on Sun 11/09/08 01:26 PM


The thing too, is: There are many poor people who DO work very hard.

There are people working 2-3 jobs just to make it. I used to be there, dont get me wrong, and I DO have sympathy for those people.

I dont, however, think that those people will be struggling indifinitely. Eventually, because they are hard workers and will fight to survive, they will rise to a higher wage, either through hard work and experience or through an education.

Tina


I don't believe that is necessarily true, Tina.

You can work your ass off for minimum wage, and as long as the employer can GET you to work your ass off for that wage, they are not very likely to raise it any.

Education is a possibility, but how many of those people who work 2 or 3 jobs, and have a family to take care of, actually have the time to be able to get that education? They can't drop one of the jobs in favor of getting the education because to do so would be to make their family go without something.


I do see your point. What many people don't know, is that there is much federal funding for college now. When I went, I got grants. This not only paid for my education, it also gave me some to live off of. In addition to grants, you can get student loans, though yes, you will have to pay them back, the money made after graduation will make that pay-back seem so worth it (if the loans are taken in moderation).

And then, working a full-time job, that should take care of all the family's needs.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 12:57 PM
The thing too, is: There are many poor people who DO work very hard.

There are people working 2-3 jobs just to make it. I used to be there, dont get me wrong, and I DO have sympathy for those people.

I dont, however, think that those people will be struggling indifinitely. Eventually, because they are hard workers and will fight to survive, they will rise to a higher wage, either through hard work and experience or through an education.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 12:54 PM

Well....you can go ahead and " refuse " all you want...but guess what.

You aren't going to have a choice in the matter. If you make more than 250K....yer in it whether you like it or not.

Unless, of course, you decide to move to Canada or something.


Canada, what a great idea! All the wealthy people will move to Canada and leave the poor people here and THEN they will HAVE to work, right?

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 12:51 PM



Is it fun for you two to keep putting people down?


how are you supposed to feel superior if you can't look down on people?


I wouldn't know. I've never felt superior to anyone or had a desire to feel that way.


If you have never felt superior, why do you expect people to hand you their hard-earned money just because you are not young anymore and you have children?

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 12:39 PM

Is it fun for you two to keep putting people down?


Winx,

If that is a put down, look at the level of education for America verses Japan.

You need to get off yourself and look at a broader perspective. No one is "out to get you". These are just facts, not put downs. I AM an American, too, and I would like to know that my children are getting a better education than that which is currently provided.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 12:23 PM
Edited by tiamabreid on Sun 11/09/08 12:24 PM

HELP!!!! NOT SUPPORT!!!!!! And I stated that at the beginning of my post!!!!

The Bible also states that the FAMILY of the Widowed is obligated to provide for the Widow...NOT the Nation, but the individual family

1 Timothy 5:4
4But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God

1 Timothy 5:16
If any woman who is a believer has widows in her family, she should help them and not let the church be burdened with them, so that the church can help those widows who are really in need.


The FAMILY..the CHURCH...again NOT the NATION.

Lindyy
:heart:


Thank You, Lindyy!

I would like you to know that I don't mind helping people in need. Every year, my family goes to a homeless shelter and buys Christmas gifts for the children living in these shelters. I specifically remember spending my entire Christmas day helping the younger children at a shelter learn how to ride their new bikes we had just bought them (amongst thousands of dollars worth of other gifts).

Another year, I had (on my own, above and beyond what I helped my family do) gone to another shelter for young teen mothers, and not only did I buy gifts for all of those teen mother's children, but gifts for the teen mothers as well.

Another year, we bought half of a department store for Christmas(clothes, toys, shoes, ...) for 24 children from low-income families.

I am a very giving person on top of paying my taxes, but I don't give to the person who is demanding and expects it.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 11:41 AM


Maybe this can make a little more sense to all of you that can't think past the scope of a childhood education.

Tina


Tina, you make very valid arguments.

But then you proceed to lessen those points by making snide little comments such as the one I am quoting.

I understand that it can be frustrating at times to feel that you are the only one who " sees the light " so to speak. Resorting to insulting someone's intelligence, however, is not the most effective way of making your point.

If people don't listen to those points, that is their own choice.

Oh I'm reading them but they don't go with my life experience and the tone of this whole thread is if you are poor you must be either stupid or lazy.I am neither .I'm just a single parent struggling to get by and even I will drop a few coins in a less fortunate persons cup because thats called empathy and community.Sometimes people forget their roots and what it's like to struggle.sad.


You DO know, though, that it IS possible for you to do better for you and your family.

No one is saying that just because you are poor you are stupid. I am saying that there are so many resources out there for single parents to make a better life for themselves, and the argument before (WINX, I think said) that people that are older with children will never make any better of a life for themselves or their families other than minimum wage and that minimum wage should be increased. You can look back and see that conversation.

You can also see in other threads where I have told my story, and argued that many people are perfectly happy with making a lower income. They are happy to spend more time with their families and would opt to not work so hard in their life. What I am saying is, that's fine, but I don't want them to whine and say that somehow because I HAVE worked hard to earn good money, I owe them by paying more than 1/3 of what I earn to them.

Hope that clarifies.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 11:28 AM
Edited by tiamabreid on Sun 11/09/08 11:30 AM

TINA: See? No matter what you do, say or the facts you provide....things just are not comprehensible by many....SIGH....

I do not make much money, I do the best with the skills I have, I live modestly and am content with what I have. I am basically a HAPPY PUPPY!

I am all for programs to assist those in need....reaching out & HELPING (NOT SUPPORTING)........ BUT I and the rest of the citizenship of the USA are NOT obligated to provide for others.

Those who are financially wealthy got there through hard work, tons of stress & lots of determination & self sacrifice.......To have the AUDACITY to say these individuals are obligated to "COUGH UP" their hard earned money is mind boggeling....what

Sure, it would be nice to have the skills to EARN (I stress the word EARN)and/or make more money....but I do not, THEREFORE, I make the best of what I have, live sensibly & modestly and am grateful for the wealthy BECAUSE it is THEY, the dastardly, how dare they be "rich", who provide the millions of jobs for others to EARN a living.....and pay the millions of dollars in taxes to keep the USA going.....

Do people REALLY think the minuscule amount paid in taxes by the mid to low class wage earners & the non-tax paying wage earners - keeps things running in the USA? The words "COMMON SENSE" seem to be missing in this thread.frustrated slaphead

Lindyy
:heart:


AND THESE, are the people that the wealthy WANT to help. People who think that they are somehow OWED something because they are poor (or as the uneducated say 'po') are not the people that deserve any more support.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 11:21 AM


Why are you being rude?


There are so many people that think: Because someone made good money by working really hard to get it, they should then help the people who have not done anything with their life to make themselves better.

There is already so much more taxes imposed on the people considered "wealthy", so again, I say - if more taxes are necessary to make the lower income families happy, what is the point to ever make something of oneself?

Everything I have done to make myself something, then 1/2-1/3 of my earnings is given to someone who doesnt do anything for themselves.

This is why I am irritated.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 11:08 AM




Why can't the rich pay a higher percentage of taxes than the poor???



Touche...


UMMM, THEY ALREADY DO!!! Much higher tax percentage, the difference of 35% to 10%.


35 percent of a billion is **** compared to 25 percent of 18000 a year.
With loopholes and all it aint the rich nor the po paying its the working poor and lower middle class.I live in the real America.Apparently some here live in Fantasyland.By the way I'm a moderate as are most here.By the way I don't want your damn money,I just want a break.If you guys are so worried ,get the IRS abolished and income tax so we can actually get the bucks we work for.


Let me spell it out in words that people like you can understand.

Let's say you are selling candybars to earn your way to camp. If you sell 200 candybars, you have earned a free ride to camp. Any more candybars you sell over 200, you will get $.10 of spending money while you are at camp. Your classmates all have the same amount to sell for a free ride to camp and spending money as well.

You work your butt off day and night and all weekend long to sell 250 candybars. This must mean that not only do you have a free ride to camp, but you also get $5 in spending money.

Now everything turns around and you are forced to help the kids that did nothing to earn their free ride and the camp director now tells you that 1/3 of your candybar sales are going to help other kids, and you no longer have a free ride to camp.

This means that you are going to have to sell 45 more candybars (now, hopefully you know that the tax will still count on the candybars you are going to have to re-sell in order to pay your way) The math is done like this: 250*2/3 = 166.67. Well, no one can only sell .33 of a candybar, so we round up one. We have to sell 34 candybars, but those 34 will then be taxed, so we multiply. 34*1.33333=45.33333 (we rounded up before, so now we can round down to 45).

Maybe this can make a little more sense to all of you that can't think past the scope of a childhood education.

Tina

tiamabreid's photo
Sun 11/09/08 09:53 AM
Edited by tiamabreid on Sun 11/09/08 09:53 AM
You know, you would probably get more responses if you had your own words to say and didnt copy and paste so much.