Community > Posts By > Drivinmenutz

 
Drivinmenutz's photo
Wed 02/06/13 08:10 AM


BTW, Sandy Hook Elementary did not involve an assault rifle. It was left in the car the shooter drove to the school and the coroners reports showed no large (rifle) caliber bullets in any of the victims or anywhere in the school.
actually a Bushmaster is a relatively Smallbore at 5.56mm caliber!
And it isn't an Assault-Rifle,but simply a Semi-automatic Rifle,like all the other ones termed Assault-Weapons!

Assault Weapon - an arbitrary name given by the government to any weapon with features similar to features on military-grade weapons

which means that any semi-automatic can be termed an Assault-Weapon,and therefore can be banned,which is the direction the Gungrabbers are steering!


drinker

This goes to show you that the ones that know the least about firearms (and the correlation between ownership and gun violence) are the ones trying to pass the legislation. This is a terrible knee jerk reaction and one that will ultimately cost lives.

Especially since their greatest adversary on the issue, actually offered to help fund solutions that would benefit everyone (expanding mental healthcare), the the anti-gun advocates would rather take your guns away (which statistically has never worked for us before), further dwindling the rights of Americans. Does anybody tragic and hypocritical and sad?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Wed 02/06/13 08:00 AM










We will get back to the nuke and law enforcement arguments.

Right now I would like to focus on the assumption that gun control has a direct correlation to gun violence...


"Drivinmenutz"...that would be a useless argument ....because it's obvious that before there were guns..there were no gun violence ....

and it's obvious that if you take away all the guns there would be no gun violence

but since the 2nd amendment gives the citizens the right to bear arms and commit gun violence... therefore you have to place in laws and restrictions the same that you would do with anything else that presents a clear and present danger to society and it's citizens

one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....

now all you have to do is say that you don't believe that such a law have any direct effect on curbing gun violence

please say you don't believe...please


Yes, before guns there was no "gun" violence as the technology wasn't invented yet. Yes, if you take ALL the guns away "gun" violence will most likely cease as well...

So how would one take all the guns away?


the 2nd amendment forbids taking guns....but it doesn't forbid placing laws with the intent to protect society from their irresponsible usage


I guess that depends on the law being issued...

So how would these new laws "protect society from the irresponsible"?


"Drivemenutz"...I've already presented a question to you that you didn't answer ...but anyway ...let's try that question again

THE QUESTION;
one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....do you believe such a law would curb gun violence?




Unfortunately it just isn't that simple. But i suppose i will "bite the bullet" on this one.

It was interesting to me that I couldn't seem to find any laws that were passed on this issue until 1990. Admittedly I only searched the topic for about 15 minutes so i may have to revisit the issue.

Anyhow the law passed in 1990 allowed for the declaration of "gun free" zones. Another passed in 1994 prohibited "juveniles" from possessing and/or selling handguns. Perhaps there were school "rules" established prohibiting weapons.

All the information i seem to come up with shows that school homicides (couldn't seem to single-out "gun" homicides from the rest) directly coincided with the rest of the country which fell dramatically starting in 1993. As a matter of fact it continued to call until about mid 2012. (Interestingly it still remains less then 50% of what it was in the 90's)

So to answer your question, i believe that such a law would do little to curb gun violence in schools or anywhere. It would appear that people were already following this "rule", as parents can all agree that letting your 8 year old take off to school with a loaded gun is wrong. Perhaps this was the point you were trying to make?


"Drivinmenutz"..perhaps if I make the question simplier....

1:you either believe that children without restrictions should exercise their 2nd amendment right to bear arms at school

or

2: you believe that restriction should be put in place that take away children 2nd amendment right to bear arms at school


whichever one you pick...explain why you believe it would or wouldn't curb gun violence




This question cannot be answered with completely honest opinion, as it has been oversimplified (there are more moving parts than allowed to address.)

But hey, i will play along as i believe you ultimately have a point.

Option 2. Because children have not yet fully matured. Also, many have not yet received the proper instruction on how to handle a firearm. This could lead to accidental shootings. This is why we have gun safes and don't leave loaded guns lying around when 5-year-olds are running around.

This what you were looking for?



now that you have choose option two.....is that perhaps an indication that you believe that taking away the children's 2nd amendment right to bear arms at school would also curb gun violence?


I believe this straw man has been beaten to death. I gave reasons and answered questions, both on the honest level, and the level in which you seemed to have trapped me. If what you are saying is that some, certain restrictions can/should be allowed to preserve the safety of the masses then I would agree.

Truth of the matter is that question is way too oversimplified to be applied to the argument. Children do not have the same rights as adults, nor have they ever. If this were the case children would be deciding on which medical treatments he/she receives, or be allowed to live on his/her own at any age. They would be allowed to purchase anything adults can including alcohol and cigarettes. Parents would be prosecuted for illegal detaining when trying to ground their child. And oh yeah, children would be allowed to vote.

The scenario in question is merely an example of guardianship, NOT individual rights. Parents make rules and put restrictions on children so they can be introduced, and tested, one by one, therefore teaching said child responsibility. This is why prior to any laws being made, rules against weapons in class were enforced.

Unfortunately these factors render this example completely null and void.


Drivinmenutz's photo
Wed 02/06/13 07:45 AM




Those who turn swords into Plowshares will plow for those who do not!
-Thomas Jefferson


to bad Thomas Jefferson didn't give his slaves that option

you're here praising Thomos Jefferson who was to his slaves part of a tyrannical government that use guns to deny others their Rights ...

but yet at the same time you're here cursing those in today's government that you believe is trying to do the same thing to you that Thomas Jefferson done to his slaves

sort of ironic


Indeed, the Irony is apparent. However the words he speaks are no less true... He was quite wise, and America has matured since then, recognizing the error in it's ways. President Lincoln was responsible for a movement that ultimately freed the slaves. He was a large supporter of Jefferson. Also ironic...


if you speak for the rights of one group of people while in the same breath denying the same for another group,... that is not being wise, that is being clueless

if Lincoln was truly a supporter of Jefferson he would have opted to have sex and make babies with slaves not Free them


No, that is being hypocritical, which, no historian would disagree in this. However you will notice that slave ownership was a social norm at the time. Jefferson actually wrote a couple emancipations towards freeing slaves, but these were highly criticized by the locals, whom he was trying to win over. I would say he prioritized by first severing the ties to a far-off power and preaching freedom. Lincoln understood the ultimate goal, and fortunately didn't shun Jefferson's teachings just because the man was one of many who still owned slaves.

We should all be wise enough to take the good (which was Thomas Jefferson's teachings on equality and freedom) and look past (while still acknowledging) the negative aspects of character. It is a critical thinking fallacy, after all, to focus on attacking an individual's character when only a certain principle was brought into question.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 02/04/13 09:11 PM


Those who turn swords into Plowshares will plow for those who do not!
-Thomas Jefferson


to bad Thomas Jefferson didn't give his slaves that option

you're here praising Thomos Jefferson who was to his slaves part of a tyrannical government that use guns to deny others their Rights ...

but yet at the same time you're here cursing those in today's government that you believe is trying to do the same thing to you that Thomas Jefferson done to his slaves

sort of ironic


Indeed, the Irony is apparent. However the words he speaks are no less true... He was quite wise, and America has matured since then, recognizing the error in it's ways. President Lincoln was responsible for a movement that ultimately freed the slaves. He was a large supporter of Jefferson. Also ironic...


Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 02/04/13 09:05 PM








We will get back to the nuke and law enforcement arguments.

Right now I would like to focus on the assumption that gun control has a direct correlation to gun violence...


"Drivinmenutz"...that would be a useless argument ....because it's obvious that before there were guns..there were no gun violence ....

and it's obvious that if you take away all the guns there would be no gun violence

but since the 2nd amendment gives the citizens the right to bear arms and commit gun violence... therefore you have to place in laws and restrictions the same that you would do with anything else that presents a clear and present danger to society and it's citizens

one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....

now all you have to do is say that you don't believe that such a law have any direct effect on curbing gun violence

please say you don't believe...please


Yes, before guns there was no "gun" violence as the technology wasn't invented yet. Yes, if you take ALL the guns away "gun" violence will most likely cease as well...

So how would one take all the guns away?


the 2nd amendment forbids taking guns....but it doesn't forbid placing laws with the intent to protect society from their irresponsible usage


I guess that depends on the law being issued...

So how would these new laws "protect society from the irresponsible"?


"Drivemenutz"...I've already presented a question to you that you didn't answer ...but anyway ...let's try that question again

THE QUESTION;
one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....do you believe such a law would curb gun violence?




Unfortunately it just isn't that simple. But i suppose i will "bite the bullet" on this one.

It was interesting to me that I couldn't seem to find any laws that were passed on this issue until 1990. Admittedly I only searched the topic for about 15 minutes so i may have to revisit the issue.

Anyhow the law passed in 1990 allowed for the declaration of "gun free" zones. Another passed in 1994 prohibited "juveniles" from possessing and/or selling handguns. Perhaps there were school "rules" established prohibiting weapons.

All the information i seem to come up with shows that school homicides (couldn't seem to single-out "gun" homicides from the rest) directly coincided with the rest of the country which fell dramatically starting in 1993. As a matter of fact it continued to call until about mid 2012. (Interestingly it still remains less then 50% of what it was in the 90's)

So to answer your question, i believe that such a law would do little to curb gun violence in schools or anywhere. It would appear that people were already following this "rule", as parents can all agree that letting your 8 year old take off to school with a loaded gun is wrong. Perhaps this was the point you were trying to make?


"Drivinmenutz"..perhaps if I make the question simplier....

1:you either believe that children without restrictions should exercise their 2nd amendment right to bear arms at school

or

2: you believe that restriction should be put in place that take away children 2nd amendment right to bear arms at school


whichever one you pick...explain why you believe it would or wouldn't curb gun violence




This question cannot be answered with completely honest opinion, as it has been oversimplified (there are more moving parts than allowed to address.)

But hey, i will play along as i believe you ultimately have a point.

Option 2. Because children have not yet fully matured. Also, many have not yet received the proper instruction on how to handle a firearm. This could lead to accidental shootings. This is why we have gun safes and don't leave loaded guns lying around when 5-year-olds are running around.

This what you were looking for?




Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 02/04/13 08:25 PM

But i guess I have to agree with the OP in that he put his foot in his mouth on this one. He could have phrased things more "politically". Although i suppose that wasn't his style...



He may as well speak the truth as he sees it, even if most people won't understand that one. I think his political career has come to its end anyway. There is no reason to be politically correct or tip toe around the truth or what he feels at this point.

In some way, we are all very responsible for what happens to us. Not everyone believes in or understands that level of responsibility that reaches down to the quantum soup of reality.




Indeed, i have to agree. He did speak the truth, and used facts and statistics, specific examples, etc. instead of attacking and resorting to the "games" politicians tend to play. This is why I admire the man. Even if he is attacked, he will retort with more information. This is also why nobody bothers to confront him in a debate.


Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 02/04/13 05:15 PM

‘He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.'

People can't handle the truth.

--- law of attraction. ----

Ron Paul speaks the truth and people don't often like what he says.




He does. This is what i like about him.drinker



But i guess I have to agree with the OP in that he put his foot in his mouth on this one. He could have phrased things more "politically". Although i suppose that wasn't his style...

Nobody is perfect. We can't expect them to be. I have no illusions about this.

But I still believe we are going to be much worse off without Dr. Paul in the House.

Chris Kyle has my deepest respects.







Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 02/04/13 05:01 PM
When someone dies it is gruesome and ugly. When such a thing happens to a child it is unthinkable. I have seen what an explosion would do to a child during a suicide bombing in Baghdad. Never quite been the same since.

I disagree with the notion of turning a child's funeral into a statement (as i believe everyone is scared enough already), and i disagree with showing his deformed remains at the funeral, as this image will be scarred into everyone's memories, making it hard to see anything else when reflecting back to brighter days.

These disagreements are my own, however. My heart bleeds for the families, especially as no parent should ever have to bury their child.

For all the badmouthing everyone has been doing, we can all agree that no one wanted, or wants, to see this happen again. The path to get there may be where opinions differ, but in the end the goal is the same.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 02/04/13 04:44 PM






We will get back to the nuke and law enforcement arguments.

Right now I would like to focus on the assumption that gun control has a direct correlation to gun violence...


"Drivinmenutz"...that would be a useless argument ....because it's obvious that before there were guns..there were no gun violence ....

and it's obvious that if you take away all the guns there would be no gun violence

but since the 2nd amendment gives the citizens the right to bear arms and commit gun violence... therefore you have to place in laws and restrictions the same that you would do with anything else that presents a clear and present danger to society and it's citizens

one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....

now all you have to do is say that you don't believe that such a law have any direct effect on curbing gun violence

please say you don't believe...please


Yes, before guns there was no "gun" violence as the technology wasn't invented yet. Yes, if you take ALL the guns away "gun" violence will most likely cease as well...

So how would one take all the guns away?


the 2nd amendment forbids taking guns....but it doesn't forbid placing laws with the intent to protect society from their irresponsible usage


I guess that depends on the law being issued...

So how would these new laws "protect society from the irresponsible"?


"Drivemenutz"...I've already presented a question to you that you didn't answer ...but anyway ...let's try that question again

THE QUESTION;
one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....do you believe such a law would curb gun violence?




Unfortunately it just isn't that simple. But i suppose i will "bite the bullet" on this one.

It was interesting to me that I couldn't seem to find any laws that were passed on this issue until 1990. Admittedly I only searched the topic for about 15 minutes so i may have to revisit the issue.

Anyhow the law passed in 1990 allowed for the declaration of "gun free" zones. Another passed in 1994 prohibited "juveniles" from possessing and/or selling handguns. Perhaps there were school "rules" established prohibiting weapons.

All the information i seem to come up with shows that school homicides (couldn't seem to single-out "gun" homicides from the rest) directly coincided with the rest of the country which fell dramatically starting in 1993. As a matter of fact it continued to call until about mid 2012. (Interestingly it still remains less then 50% of what it was in the 90's)

So to answer your question, i believe that such a law would do little to curb gun violence in schools or anywhere. It would appear that people were already following this "rule", as parents can all agree that letting your 8 year old take off to school with a loaded gun is wrong. Perhaps this was the point you were trying to make?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 01/28/13 04:58 PM
It seems the powers that be are getting desperate. It also seems like an interesting time to beef up domestic forces. They expecting some resistance or something?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 01/28/13 03:49 PM




We will get back to the nuke and law enforcement arguments.

Right now I would like to focus on the assumption that gun control has a direct correlation to gun violence...


"Drivinmenutz"...that would be a useless argument ....because it's obvious that before there were guns..there were no gun violence ....

and it's obvious that if you take away all the guns there would be no gun violence

but since the 2nd amendment gives the citizens the right to bear arms and commit gun violence... therefore you have to place in laws and restrictions the same that you would do with anything else that presents a clear and present danger to society and it's citizens

one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....

now all you have to do is say that you don't believe that such a law have any direct effect on curbing gun violence

please say you don't believe...please


Yes, before guns there was no "gun" violence as the technology wasn't invented yet. Yes, if you take ALL the guns away "gun" violence will most likely cease as well...

So how would one take all the guns away?


the 2nd amendment forbids taking guns....but it doesn't forbid placing laws with the intent to protect society from their irresponsible usage


I guess that depends on the law being issued...

So how would these new laws "protect society from the irresponsible"?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 01/28/13 03:15 PM


We will get back to the nuke and law enforcement arguments.

Right now I would like to focus on the assumption that gun control has a direct correlation to gun violence...


"Drivinmenutz"...that would be a useless argument ....because it's obvious that before there were guns..there were no gun violence ....

and it's obvious that if you take away all the guns there would be no gun violence

but since the 2nd amendment gives the citizens the right to bear arms and commit gun violence... therefore you have to place in laws and restrictions the same that you would do with anything else that presents a clear and present danger to society and it's citizens

one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....

now all you have to do is say that you don't believe that such a law have any direct effect on curbing gun violence

please say you don't believe...please


Yes, before guns there was no "gun" violence as the technology wasn't invented yet. Yes, if you take ALL the guns away "gun" violence will most likely cease as well...

So how would one take all the guns away?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 01/27/13 09:19 AM


Still not sure what you meant about the nukes, and war as it would be easier to send nukes then ground troops in either confrontation... But we can move on from that. (The fault may be of my own)


the "War" in Afghanistan lasted for 10 years....drop nukes it wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds


Either way, there are two very big assumptions you seem to make with your statements. #1 being that law enforcement are all responsible people, have never done, and will never do any harm to the populace (despite the fact that they came from the same population). #2 That gun laws have a direct correlation to gun violence.


nope... sorry...

#1...I said that law enforcement officers where there to help protect society from itself...that's not an assumption..considering that is what they were hired to do

#2..and I stated that gun laws are there to help protect society and you from your gun ...

#3..guns are obsolete...don't you think that it's time that you upgraded to nukes? ..especially if you want to take on the government


We will get back to the nuke and law enforcement arguments.

Right now I would like to focus on the assumption that gun control has a direct correlation to gun violence...

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/26/13 01:51 PM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/26/13 01:51 PM
Still not sure what you meant about the nukes, and war as it would be easier to send nukes then ground troops in either confrontation... But we can move on from that. (The fault may be of my own)

Either way, there are two very big assumptions you seem to make with your statements. #1 being that law enforcement are all responsible people, have never done, and will never do any harm to the populace (despite the fact that they came from the same population). #2 That gun laws have a direct correlation to gun violence.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/26/13 12:30 PM

My winchester model 12 would have stopped them in their tracks. More deadly than an ar in close quarter combat.



Many a criminal has run fast and hard after hearing a pump shotgun chamber a round...

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/26/13 12:21 PM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/26/13 12:26 PM



how many of those wars did both sides have nukes?


To Quote number 1. Both sides having nukes are irrelevant to the statement you made of "Why send in troops when you can just drop a nuke?". Only because we did send in troops, and did not drop a nuke. This also where the assumption of guns being obsolete gets knocked down a peg or two in my opinion. If they were truly obsolete wouldn't our law enforcement, military, and secret service have turned them over long ago?


guns laws are put in place to protect society from itself






And concerning quote number 2. How did we reach that conclusion? Statistically gun control has never had any control over gun-related crime. Not in the U.S. anyhow. So who are we protecting? And to revert back to the previous Thomas Jefferson quote; If we (the people in our society) are not fit to look after ourselves, then how can we (law enforcement members chosen from the same society) look after others (again meaning people from our society)? Or are the enforcers of these new laws "for our protection" going to come from elsewhere?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/26/13 11:23 AM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/26/13 11:42 AM
Scott Dudley for president 2013!drinker :wink:

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/26/13 11:18 AM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/26/13 11:19 AM


I agree with the notion of providing mental health care completely. This is where the whole debate needs to focus, in my opinion. This would theoretically separate who you are calling "irresponsible" citizens from the "responsible" ones. A means of directing the energy to the source of our violence instead of casting blanket policies that limit that power and rights of the public as a whole.

However where i disagree is with the need for new gun control measures, as the measures already in place would potentially prevent a mentally dysfunctional person from obtaining said firearms (from legal means). For instance; the background check given to anyone buying a new firearm already checks for things like restraining orders, violent histories, and previous felony charges. It is still any medical professional's responsibility to report any statement made by a client (or anyone by the matter) that would lead him/her to believe this person intends to do harm. This is then made accessible to any law enforcement agency. Maybe an awareness campaign to enforce rules in place?

There are always back doors to obtaining these firearms, whether by theft, or by borrowing them friend friends/relatives. This is difficult to regulate without taking away from those who are "responsible" as well. Even then, there is no indication, or information that can support the hypothesis that new restrictions would even help achieve that goal. Under those realizations i cannot condone (or even understand) any further restriction on the general populace.


"Mental Health" will be the route that the government and the NRA will take to control the 2nd amendment.....

guns are obsolete, and are no longer required to fight a war.. which was learned in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ..if you go to war...why send ground troops when you can simply drop a nuke

the guns laws that are being place in today is to steer society and it's citizens into a direction of being responsible for the guns they have and to weed out the ones that can't or refuse to do so before technology evolve the 2nd amendment into a form of Eugenics


I do see a point in what you are saying. No weapon in the world can compare to the power of a nuke. Yet, we have had many, many wars since world war 2, on many different fronts. Nukes were used in none of these.

I have a question... Assuming that you are talking about the gun laws being proposed, How would they influencing society into being any more responsible?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/26/13 09:12 AM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/26/13 09:13 AM
Is it grey assassin kittens?....with sniper rifles?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/26/13 09:11 AM
Has the public really bee pushed too far? We shall see...