sounds like relativism to me. a nice way out of any accountability to having to follow any rules, and a lousy excuse to do what you want. no thanks.

well since the KJV is freakin hard to understand, i'll post the NIV version in plain english...

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

I believe this is referring to the anti-christ (the man of lawlessness) who unites the world under a world government. The rebellion is when people either choose christ or the anti-christ.

what has that have to do with ANYTHING about JW's?

mormons THINK they're christians though because they follow christ. does that make them christians. i don't know yet.

i believe he was neither. he was jewish, so he probably looked like a jewish male does from nazareth.

mormons are damn nice people. i have some very close mormon friends and even some mormon cousins.

that being said, i think their beliefs are pretty whacked out.

i think that weed is overall bad for you. it can contribute to lung cancer and being "high" puts you out of your normal state and makes you "drunk" in a way.

so i dont think god would approve, but i also dont think its a huge deal to god.

that said, i drink alchol occasionally and i find nothing wrong with it if it doesnt make u a into a stupid drunk. god didnt say "dont drink." he said "dont get drunk with whine." i am not getting drunk, so its all good in my eyes. the same probably holds true with weed.

that said, its probably better to not do either.

nice dreamer. thanks for correcting me. you are very learned.

watch the movie "luther". he was quite insane, but hey, at least he got many christians away from the stranglehold of the catholic church. because of him i get to worship in a non-denominational church with 80 or so other people, in regular clothes, with a band. no hymnals. no suits and ties. just worshipping god who you are. thanks luther!

and andrew, put a shirt on dude. haha. just messin.

i'm not even sure what point you're trying to make, but your vocabulary is excellent sir :)

i actually had a mormon friend who's family never celebrated holidays. maybe the dad was JDUB or something.

i'm not sure why, but it's true. they don't celebrate 99% of any holidays. must be a boring life.

i think they want you to believe the same thing because they love you, and want you to know the same joy of god that they have. it's like there's an awesome party going on and you want all your friends to come.

it's the same situation i face with my close friends. i am a christian and i want them to know christ, but at the same time i know preaching to them will just push them away.

i prefer to share christ by loving on others as much as i can and get to them ask ME "what is different about you? why do you act this way?"

from my experience this works better. no one is gonna listen unless they think what you have is worth listening TO. i love my roommates and i do what i can to show them god's love, and sometimes they ask me things. if one is to come to faith, it isn't ever overnight. if you WERE to become a christian, it might take years. your parents should just love you and pray for you, and hope someday you believe it.

i read this book called "angels: elect and evil" a while back. it was pretty interesting and delved pretty deep into the author's study of the existence and character of various TYPES of angels based on biblical scripture.

i personally view angels as the first created beings, simply as god's workers. men were created after angels, and are more loved by god. when we die and are in heaven, we will judge the angels because they too have free will. obviously they do since satan, tried to be better than god and rebel against him, and was cast out of heaven along with about 1/3 of the angels who rebelled with him. these fallen angels are what the bible refers to as demons.

as far as if they are man/woman/genderless, i dont know.

dreamer, i am a christian and even if easter falls on a pagan holiday, i still worship christ on that day, not any other god or goddess, so i dont break any commandments by doing that. just because it's the same day does not make it the same THING.

thank you for your hardcore and thorough defense of the scriptures though.

google "forsaken me explanation" first result is as follows...

Question:

Why does Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Response:

This is a very good question. Obviously, Jesus' words from the cross are especially significant. Everything in scripture and everything Jesus said is important, but we can be sure that His final words have special prophetic significance, and this is certainly so in the case of the quote you ask about.

When Jesus says "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?", He is, as you no doubt already know, quoting from Psalm 22 (verse 1 in the English versions). This is important to understand, because Psalm 22 is a prophecy of Jesus' crucifixion. The rejection of the Messiah by the people (v.6), the insults they hurled at Him on the cross (vv.7-8 - compare with Matt.27:38-43), the pain of the crucifixion (vv.14-15), the piercing of His hands and feet (v.16), the dividing up of His clothing by lot (v.18) are just some of the more obvious parallels this Psalm prophesies. Jesus knew exactly what was going to happen to Him because He understood this Psalm and how it applied to His death on our behalf (cf. Matt.20:18-19). By quoting Psalm 22, our Lord makes this clear, and makes it clear to all who would later hear these words of His that He was well aware that He would have to die on our behalf in order to save us - for this reason He came into the world (Jn.3:16-17).

Some people very wrongly take this quote you ask about to be a sign of desperation on our Lord's part in His hour of trial - but nothing could be further from the truth. These words from our Savior make it clear beyond doubt that, on the one hand, He understood why He had to suffer - this was His mission - and, on the other hand, that He was supremely confident of the Father's ultimate deliverance of Him through the resurrection of His body before it had even seen decay (Ps.16; cf. Act 2:24-31), for the second half of Psalm 22 is hymn of victory (vv.22-31). These words, therefore, were spoken entirely for our benefit, that we might know that Jesus was delivered over through the will of God (Matt.20:28), willing accepted this mission for our sake (Matt.26:42), and had complete and unbreakable faith in the deliverance that awaited Him. These words were spoken that we might believe in Him and might emulate His faith and confidence in God's deliverance even in the most terrible of circumstances. For if God delivered over His own Son to death that we might live, how would He not then give us everything (Rom.8:32)?

It is also important to note that this quote precedes by only slight moments the exhaling of His spirit, and follows the three hours of darkness that cloaked our Lord's most intense suffering on the cross. What this means is that "why hast Thou forsaken Me?" is really better translated "why did You forsake Me?", a sense that is common in the Hebrew perfect tense in the original Psalm 22:1 quote. Therefore Jesus' use of this quote is really not even a question in the true sense. He is not asking for an answer or an explanation of what has happened - He knows very well why He was allowed to suffer on the cross. Rather rather these words are an explanation for us: "Do you want to know why God allowed Me to be crucified? It was to save you!" This interpretation is confirmed by Jesus final statement on the cross which comes almost immediately after the Psalm 22:1 quote and is recorded in Luke 23:46: "Father, into Thy hands I commit my spirit". This is also a quote from the Psalms, Psalm 31:5, to be precise, and is a statement not only of Jesus' impending departure from life, but a statement of victorious trust in the One in whom He trusted, the One He knew would shortly deliver His humanity through resurrection. For although Jesus does not complete the quote of this verse, its remaining words would have been well known to any and all who had studied the Psalms, "You have redeemed Me, O Lord God of truth." Jesus was supremely confident of the deliverance of His body from death, and passes that confidence on to us in all of these final words from the cross. "Why hast Thou forsaken" looks back at Jesus successful endurance of the cross, His victory over sin for us, while "into Thy hands [... Thou has redeemed Me]", looks forward to His impending victory over death for us through His resurrection, just as Paul explains it:

He was handed over on account of our transgressions (i.e., to redeem us from sin), and was raised up on account of our justification (i.e., so that we too could be raised, having been justified by His death). Romans 4:25

The body of Psalm 22 that follows verse one, relating all the particulars of our Lord’s ordeal of the cross (vv.2-21), and the promise of victory that follows (vv.22-31), gives the explanation for the "why?" of the first verse. In quoting Psalm 22:1 from the cross, Jesus is giving us an explanation for the need for His death on our behalf, a reminder of the magnitude of His sacrifice, and a victory hymn, a victorious proclamation of His successful accomplishment of the mission given Him by the Father. Why was He forsaken? He was forsaken for you and me! And with these words Jesus makes it clear that the Father’s sacrifice of Him and His offering Himself up in sacrifice were not accidental but part of, indeed the heart of the plan of God, the price above prices paid for our salvation.

[Future generations] will come and proclaim [God’s] righteousness to people not yet born, for He has accomplished it (i.e., salvation)! Psalm 22:31

This final verse of Psalm 22 is also alluded to on the cross by our Lord, at the end of His ordeal of bearing our sins and just before His exhaling of His spirit and just after receiving the water with vinegar when He says "It (i.e., salvation) has been accomplished" (Jn.19:30). Jesus knew very well that unless His own Father forsook Him and handed Him over to judgment, there could be no redemption, and all whom He had come to save would be lost. Without His being forsaken, salvation could never be accomplished. Thus these words "why have You forsaken Me", far from expressing doubt, show beyond all question the unfathomably deep love our Savior had for you and me, for He knew from the very beginning what it would take from Him to rescue us from death.

jesus was not born in december. no one really knows the exact day, but i think it's estimated to be around march-april.

the reason christmas and easter are on the days they are, is because rome was converted to christianity by caesar augustus. so therefore he wanted to observe christ's birth and death. instead of making brand new holidays, he just converted the people's pagan holidays into christian holidays. so like if they celebrated zeus on the winter solstice (december 25) he simply changed the official celebration to christmas to make the conversion easier. they could still party on the same dates, just for different purposes. hope that helps.

i am a non-denominational christian and i feel it really depends on what you think a christian is. if you follow christ's teachings and you make him the lord of your life, you are a christian.

mormons, pentecostals, catholics, unitarians, episopelians...

they all are christian, but they interpret the bible differently and in the mormon and catholic case even add to their doctrine.

so it's up to god where to determine where he gets pissed enough to cut you out of the christian group.

if i really had to define a true christian, i would say it's anyone who follows the bible as best they can according to christ's teachings and doesnt add to or go against what christ commands.

7th day adventists: think the sabbath is saturday and everyone who goes to church on any other day or works on saturday is not keeping the sabbath, thus violating one of the 10 commandments and not the true church.

Episcopelians: allow their pastors to be openly practicing homosexuals, which most christians consider to be a sinful thing (the sex, not BEING homosexual)

Unitarians: say almost every belief is christian and god loves everyone, and forget god's justiec and punishment for sin

Catholics: say you have to confess to a priest to talk to god, pray to marry, and don't let their priests get married, thus leading to them confusing sex with altar boys as normal

Mormons: believe there's 3 levels of heaven, that you can become a god, that our god was first a human and he has a god wife that he makes spirit babies with, that jesus and satan are brothers, that access to heaven is through works and not faith.

DISCLAIMER: i may be a bit off on some of these things.

my point is it's very hard to even define what a christian means. those who claim to be christian just need to interpret the bible as best they can and follow christ's teachings as best they can, and in the end we'll all see which one was right when we die.

i personally am only looking to make my own kids with whoever i end up with. i dont want that added strain on the relationship. it might be different if i was older, but at 25, i'm not really ready for my own kids, much less someone elses.

hey folks. i live in hayward and just got a job last week in SF. hit me up if you wanna chat :) peace!