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Mon 10/22/12 03:55 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/22/justice/new-york-robert-kennedy-son-trial/index.html
Mount Kisco, New York (CNN) -- No one disputes Douglas Kennedy carried his newborn Bo through the maternity ward of a suburban New York hospital and tried to take the baby outside. Nor is there any question an altercation ensued, involving nurses attempting to keep the baby on the floor.

But beyond that, there are only open questions -- especially about why it all happened and who is to blame.

Answers finally started to trickle in on Monday, as the trial of the late Robert F. Kennedy's youngest son began with opening statements and four witnesses taking the stand.

Judge John Donahue -- not a jury -- is hearing the case involving misdemeanor charges of harassment and child endangerment.

Kicking off the trial, the two sides outlined significantly divergent scenarios of what happened last January at Northern Westchester Hospital.

According to Assistant District Attorney Amy Puerto, the nurses were simply following protocol set up in newborns' interests when they tried to keep baby Bo from leaving the hospital.

The infant's father not only didn't back down, but he fought back -- even twisting one nurse's arm and kicking another -- the prosecutor said.

One of the nurses, Anna Lane, testified Monday that she'd initially reached in to hold open an elevator door to prevent Kennedy from leaving that way. When he headed toward a stairway door, she ran to it and put her hand on the doorknob.

"I had my hand behind my back and he grabbed my left hand -- which was on the doorknob -- and twisted my arm," said Lane.

Kennedy raised his foot and kicked another nurse, Cari Luciano, who'd come to help before entering the stairway, Lane added. But he only got down as far as the next landing, where he was met by security.

The defense team was tough on the nurse. Suggesting she had an ulterior motive given Kennedy's high profile, lawyer Robert Gottlieb questioned a tearful Lane why -- if recounting her story was so emotionally difficult -- she had recounted her version of what happened so soon after the incident on NBC's "Today Show."

Fellow defense lawyer Celia Gordon, in her opening statement, suggested Kennedy was calm and that the situation only deteriorated because of Lane. Any contact with the nurses was due to a father's instinctual reflex to "keep someone from ripping his baby from his arms," the attorney added.

"(Lane) was abrasive, confrontational and changed the entire tone of the discussion ... and wanted to let him know who was in charge of his baby," Gordon said.

The incident occurred at the hospital in Mount Kisco, located about 40 miles north of New York City and where this week's trial is taking place.

After Kennedy was arraigned in February, his attorney released a statement stating that nurses initially agreed to let him take the baby outside and demanding "appropriate disciplinary action" be taken against Lane and Luciano.

Timothy Haydock, a doctor at the hospital and longtime family friend who was with Kennedy at the time, asserted in the statement that "nurses were the only aggressors."

But neither nurse recognized Kennedy as the child's father and intended to protect the baby, who apparently had not been discharged, according to Elliot Taub, the attorney for both nurses. They were trying to enforce hospital rules, he said.

The hospital, in New York's Westchester County, issued its own statement in February supporting its nurses.

"At Northern Westchester Hospital, patient safety is our priority and we completely support the actions of our nursing staff in this case as they were clearly acting out of concern for the safety of a newborn baby."


More balanced article.

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Mon 10/22/12 03:47 PM
Stay in your life rafts people.

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Mon 10/22/12 03:40 PM

Funny...I was just thinking about this the other day. I think there are many A causes B causes A scenarios we can look at. The one I was thinking about is the brain-state. It is a fact that the electrical activity of the brain causes a magnetic field to exist, but experiments have shown that manipulation of this field has a profound effect on thought (hence an effect on the synapse in the brain). It seems to me that the field brings more order & control to the chaotic firing of neurons, but the order that it might bring arises from the semi-ordered(?) chaos of the synapses in the first place. Apparently brain function is the result of a sort of closed-loop feedback. So what do we think with, the cells or the field they generate?...Obviously both.

We are now left to wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg? The correct answer now appears to be that since each causes and is an effect of the other, neither could have been first and the question is therefore nonsensical.
Feedback loops are not the same as atemporal causal relations. Related but not the same.

However, your post immediately made me think of an excellent book I read called, "I am a strange loop". Which goes into great detail about these very ideas regarding cognition requiring feedback loops in order to better explain choice.

You should check it out!

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Mon 10/22/12 03:30 PM


If you can detect an interaction, then the things doing the interacting exist.

Time interacts with moving objects and space.

The faster an object moves through space, the slower the object moves through time relative to other objects that are not moving at that accelerated velocity.

Time exists.


Can you please elaborate more?

An example would be better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

If you want to really dig into this topic you need to start with some history of how Einstein started to develop his theory.

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Mon 10/22/12 03:12 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Mon 10/22/12 03:20 PM

I assume you guys didn't read the link I posted at the top.

Here's the thing, as we look closer and closer at the smallest bits of the universe we're beginning to see things that suggest that reality isn't real.

When you look at a photograph very closely, like under a microscope, you can see the distortions. And that's the kind of thing they're seeing when they look closely at "reality." Distortions.

The link explained a measurement that's within our current ability to take and would confirm that we're living inside a simulation, if we are.
This is in no way a new idea. Hundreds of sci-fi books, many theoretical papers have proposed such ideas. All with no reason to believe that any observable difference in any particle interactions would, or even could provide evidence of such a situation, AND for the reasons I have stated I wouldn't even call it simulation, or illusion, Id just call it a universe, if no differences exist then there exists no reason to differentiate. Any argument demanding any limitation to all possible future computational systems is by definition an argument from ignorance. Thus saying that all sims must by there very nature have certain properties is a fallacy.


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Sun 10/21/12 07:21 AM
Tell your friend to present a citation or shutup.

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Sun 10/21/12 07:15 AM

Another reason for "concealed carry".
Another reason for any kind of carry, and training your situational awareness and preparedness.


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Sun 10/21/12 07:00 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Sun 10/21/12 07:04 AM
I really do not like words like illusion, and simulation used to describe "reality", or the "universe", or " existence" becuase when we analyze what theses words mean, it makes a mess of itself.


Reality: The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them: "he refuses to face reality".

So saying, "reality is an illusion" when reality means that which ACTUALLY exists, its a contradiction in terms. The thing that is the illusion cannot also be the thing it represents, or else its not an illusion. Same goes with simulation. It cant be the thing it simulates and also be the thing itself.


This is really the same for universe, and existence.

Non-starter IMHO. Word games and no much else.


If we find we are all made of tiny super string sized cosmic bacon crumbles, its not a cosmic bacon crumble illusion, its just we did not realize that reality was made of bacon. Our knowledge has changed, not reality. emmm bacon . . . I need to eat breakfast.

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Sun 10/21/12 06:54 AM

No.

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Sun 10/21/12 06:54 AM
If you can detect an interaction, then the things doing the interacting exist.

Time interacts with moving objects and space.

The faster an object moves through space, the slower the object moves through time relative to other objects that are not moving at that accelerated velocity.

Time exists.

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Wed 10/17/12 05:56 PM
The place to start is taking a null hypothesis that choice exists as a property of some conscious beings.

Certain realizations about how brains create minds can help lead to taking this position and then being able to develop artificial means to simulate the same processes and by doing so working out the causal interactions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Brain_Project

Whole brain simulation

A longer term goal is to build a detailed, functional simulation of the physiological processes in the human brain: "It is not impossible to build a human brain and we can do it in 10 years," Henry Markram, director of the Blue Brain Project said in 2009 at the TED conference in Oxford.[4] In a BBC World Service interview he said: "If we build it correctly it should speak and have an intelligence and behave very much as a human does."[4]

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Fri 09/28/12 04:57 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 09/28/12 04:57 PM
If you do not own your body, you own nothing. Freedom cannot exist without such fundamental rights.

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Fri 09/28/12 04:55 PM
"The [Port Authority] officer took possession of the handgun and made it safe."
Sounds like it was already safe . . .

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Fri 09/28/12 04:52 PM
Id pay 160 yen.

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Thu 09/27/12 09:48 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 09/27/12 09:50 AM




LOl! Once again you are more emotional than scientific.

The link I provided showed DECREASED decay with greater solar interaction, not increased decay. This is counter-intuitive because as you say sometimes radioactivity increases with increased particle bombardment.

That is why I am saying that if decay can slow down with increased solar activity as proven by Purdue University and the Israel Geological Survey, then it can increase through greater protection from solar activity and cosmic rays.


Your reading comprehension is terrible. Reread what I wrote.


Have you noticed how he slides effortlessly from one absolute statement to another even thought they are incompatible? And the connection between EM forces and neutrino particle physics ... Wow! If we only had a big magnet we could control the rate of radioactive decay!!!! :wink:
Yes, he does not see the relationship between particle interactions and the magnetic field, or in this case the lack of particle interactions due to the magnetic field.

It goes to show that when you have a vested interest that is anti-science it creates blinders which cannot be overcome with reasoning: Contra to what science IS!


It also shows that an actual education in a field is helpful. Cool sounding youtube sound bites and out of context web quotes don't get very far.
You know I think its more about context. When one knows that our understanding is new, undeveloped, and we are just getting our feet wet on these topics, then one knows to stay humble, and try to absorb as much as possible before coming to strong conclusions. From that context really anyone can learn science a bit at a time and never take university classes. However none of that is possible when an unreasonable belief is held outside the objective scrutiny of the methods of discovery.

He is crippled in his ability to understand due to his need to make the round peg of his beliefs fit into the square hole of reality.

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Thu 09/27/12 09:44 AM


JB I am just going to make up numbers here to make it easy.

Lets say the force of gravity pulling you toward the center of the earth is 11.

Lets say the centripetal force pulling out is 1.

11-1 = 10

Make sense?

If not, your hopeless.




If the centripetal force exceeded the force of gravity, the body would come apart and wouldn't exist anymore. In fact, it wouldn't exist in the first place.
Yes the ramifications would be extreme. My illustration was to show how one force is much greater than the other, and when the lesser force is subtracted it essentially does not exist.

Not sure JB can handle basic arithmetic however.

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Wed 09/26/12 01:51 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Wed 09/26/12 02:12 PM
I gave you the definition I was working from earlier:

"free will"…freedom of choice (if an event is not determinable, it and its effect(s) can only be known in terms of probability)

"determinism"… no freedom of choice (If an event is determinable, it and its effect(s) must be inevitable such that no other possibility or choice exists)
. . and you still do not see how this framework sets up an absurdity?

Discarding this framework is the first step in understanding choice, cognition, and whatever we might have in the way of freedom of action.

I do not tacitly agree with everything on this page, but he addresses the problems in a well articulated way.

Edit: helps if I include the link, lol.

http://www.trinity.edu/cbrown/intro/free_will.html

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Wed 09/26/12 01:43 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Wed 09/26/12 01:44 PM
If you are a physicist, then I'd like for you to answer my questions. If you are not a physicist, the please provide hyperlinks to the answers.
As a physicist who struggled with Relativity in college I am uninterested in trying to educate other people.

Take some time and read up on General and Special relativity. Stick to General relativity for now, it will probably blow your mind less.


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Wed 09/26/12 01:34 PM
JB I am just going to make up numbers here to make it easy.

Lets say the force of gravity pulling you toward the center of the earth is 11.

Lets say the centripetal force pulling out is 1.

11-1 = 10

Make sense?

If not, your hopeless.


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Wed 09/26/12 01:27 PM


LOl! Once again you are more emotional than scientific.

The link I provided showed DECREASED decay with greater solar interaction, not increased decay. This is counter-intuitive because as you say sometimes radioactivity increases with increased particle bombardment.

That is why I am saying that if decay can slow down with increased solar activity as proven by Purdue University and the Israel Geological Survey, then it can increase through greater protection from solar activity and cosmic rays.


Your reading comprehension is terrible. Reread what I wrote.


Have you noticed how he slides effortlessly from one absolute statement to another even thought they are incompatible? And the connection between EM forces and neutrino particle physics ... Wow! If we only had a big magnet we could control the rate of radioactive decay!!!! :wink:
Yes, he does not see the relationship between particle interactions and the magnetic field, or in this case the lack of particle interactions due to the magnetic field.

It goes to show that when you have a vested interest that is anti-science it creates blinders which cannot be overcome with reasoning: Contra to what science IS!

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