Ah, so there still people that think like that...

Odd people.

Ha, ha, I am smiling at this as I know that many Americans would be appalled at this. And I can understand why, it does sound extreme, doesn't it?

Good points, I have to say that they are not considering all people.

Which is unfair, for some, especially the elderly, TV may be all they have.

The residents of the area, are used to it and know no different, so for them it normal and they never see it as control.

Like our school, some of them close when the temperatures reach highs. For me that means handing back to the parents responsibility of keeping their children free from the risk of sun stroke and heat problems.

But I thought it would be interesting to discuss with you guys, especially as most of you are in the US, and knowing how the general concensus is on freedom of speech, rights and all manner of things.

So this happens in areas of the US?

There are still scents of communism here in Austria, given it's history, it is always going to be there.

From the outside, I can see why people would think like that, but I am sitting on the fence, as to whether it is a good thing or a bad.

On the one hand, I think it is good to curtail TV, on the other I can see how people feel about preventing people from doing as they please.

In a certain area, when the weather reaches 30degrees celcius, tv stations close down.

Basically this means that no person can watch TV. To encourage people outside.

What are people's thoughts on this?

Is this control over people, or is a good thing enabling our children to be out in the fresh air?

Oh I can remain true to one person.

What do others on this site think about your friend's opinion?

Indeed.

Hi Pink lady.

I am not in any doubting your words or those of the reports, although the Daily Mail is a trashy paper, and will go to town on this story, primarily for political benefit.

I cannot agree that a person who is mentally unstable, should just be sectioned, in the UK, people are sectioned when they are a danger to soceity.

And if that were the case, then there would be a lot of people who are sectioned.

I think you are extremely close here and what a brilliant way of looking at it.

I think it runs far deeper than a woman who just does not care about her children and has this overwhelming desire to make a government pay up and therefore her acts are to be scorned, and Social Services are there to prevent rather than cure, so in taking the children, each and every one that is easier than looking deeper within to see where the real problems are and seek her some help.

My own mother lost care of her children, back in the 70's.

Nobody helped her then, it is something that I and my brother have done now, as adults ourselves. There is the help oit there, she could not find it, she hid from it, because she was frightened and 30 years later she is only now beginning to recover.

Interesting debate.

No, I have not said it is Social Service's fault, I don't think apportioning blame here will do any good.

I have not assumed anything, I have stated that I do not think that this has been handled well.

Social services are the ones who are supposed to be able to deal with situations like this and here we have a woman who is pregnant again, trying to keep a child, I also think that is not the best way forward, adding a new child to an already complicated case. Also, I cannot dismiss that there are another 13 children involved here.

Here we have a woman, who is not what I would call mentally stable, is fighing in an bad way to have a child. Social services will take this one away, there is no doubt about that.

She is also being named by her own sister, as one who should be sterilised and has been quoted rather crassly that she does not give a ****'

This is a deep dark place for the mother here, who on the surface, is seen as a money, grabbing, not giving a crap about her babies and is trying to screw a government, I see a woman, that just maybe, just maybe, completely mentally suffering for the loss of her children, that she did not know how to handle and how to receive help, and was fearful of authority, scared, frightened and unable to negotiate her way through this and lashing out.

I can't be so blase as to say, what the papers are displaying, that she should be forced a sterilisation.

I never knew how to take care of children when I had mine at the tender ago of 19, but I learned as I went along. As any mother does, and I cannot possibly say how I would feel if I had 13 babies taken away from me.

But I can look a tad deeper and not pour scorn on one very, very sad woman who has to be ordered of receiving some help to give her and more importantly her child, a chance of being a family.

SOmething that should have happened a long time ago.

That is my opinion, not in an way prejudiced against yours or anyone else's for that matter.

Hi there.

So I am assuming your children have no uniforms?

That is alot of money, admittedly.

It was easier to budget with mine, because of the uniforms and we could plan in advance for that.

I am a teacher and our school does not begin for another month.

It is expensive and I know myself from my own children, and we had to have uniforms too.

I don't know that and nor would I be so brave as to claim that I do.



I am a tax payer too, in two countries, but I can safely say, I would rather my taxes went to keeping families together, than filling a system that has clear leaks in it and the money dribbles through and is then washed away with baby after baby being born.



I don't disagree with you there, at all.

I do state, however, that this should have been done a long time ago...

Well, that is one way of looking at it...

But I don't think as black and white as that, I like to unwrap a little.

If she is hiding behind the sofa everytime they contact her, then she has something to hide, agreed.

Here in a sentence is what I see, based on the information s far, I see a woman, a woman who lacks integrity, sense, emotional intelligence and is living a vicious repeat of her own life.

SS have allowed it to gone on too long, she has, but they are running rings around each other.

She needs to be ordered to have sessions, by a judge, to enable them to live and love each other, there are family units in the UK, attached to the domestic agencies, governed by the police and social services, centres where families can go under supervision, and be montitored and be supported. Parenting is all about learning, my kids and are 19. 21 and I have to learn a whole new set of parenting skills, because their needs are different from when they were 12 and 5 and 15...

Ordering her to have surgery, just taking babies away now, is not going to help her, and clearly the sister is not going to, she should have help 10 babies ago, one should have set the alarms bells ringing, two should have put the wheels in motion to get them all help and three, should have gotten some damn serious meetings called in what to do...

Thirteen??? If I was in charge, I would have fired the lot of them.

Hi and thank you for the welcome, Bonny.

I think you have given me a different spin on this, one that makes me rethink the whole story, as it can be looked at from so many angles, My inital reaction, was the paper, then the sister, then of course looking at the mother. There is no smoke without fire, I believe there has been neglect and abuse here, but then some dork sitting in a white tower and ordering the removal of baby after baby and then some guy from the British Taxpayers Association coming out with frankly, crap, about 'this woman having babies when she knows they will be removed' just smacks that the system has given up on her and will simply take the children, if she has done it 13 times, what's to say she is not going to do it another 13 times?

She clearly does need help, in raising her children and who doesn't? She has not got the family, only a venomous sister who has displayed that, she has lost 13 children, so her state of mind is not going to be the best, her lack of emotional intelligence in that 'I'll keep getting pregnant until they let me keep one' is obviously not going to get her what she clearly wants, asking for help, will, she needs to have a social worker attached to her, so that she and the ssw can get to the point where mother and child can be safe, and together in a family unit, that with this pending birth could be done and with the support that is in the community available, it is there, just that the support networks and the community do not know how to utilise it. The mother is I would speculate pretty terrified that her child will be removed, and is resporting to last resorts to do keep the child.

A messy, convulated, detailed case that I'm sure has a file as thick as a tree trunk.

I don't disagree with you, but SS have the resources rather than just to take children and try to help reunite families, help the parents to be ablt to take care of their own. That is my point.

SS cannot control the children that they do not know about, but they can help, support and protect the families of the ones that they do.

Hi Pink Lady, the highlighted statement, shows me that she is not going to be given a chance, or any help whatsoever...

I agree, that yes, her children should be removed as a very last extreme, but nowhere does it say that she is having any help or support.

Hi invisible

Oh indeed, mud sticks, but this speaks for the social services system as a whole, and the flaws in their system.

While the mother agreed that her little ones where safer away from her, which indeed they probably were, the system is where my beef lies.