Bear's claims. I'm sorry, I basically skipped yours. And I understand
that occasionally problems occur- but it's better than the alternative
(when taken broadly).

Oh. Right. Conspiracy guys also make up stuff. Cultists don't tend to
do that. Except, of course, the leader(s).


Not to say you can't find those who exhibit traits of both.

Actually, it isn't. Cult behavior and consiracy theory behaviors are
both well studied and documented. There are many, easily identifiable,
clinical differences.


Amongst other things- cults actually *do* something. They obsess over
it, sure, but they go out and engage in their beliefs. Sometimes to the
point of blowing themselves and a few dozen people to flotsam.


Conspiracists, on the other hand. Just sit around in their lower-middle
class, cookie-cutter lives.... and pretend they know something about the
world that makes them special. Despite the fact that there's nothing
important or remarkable about them.

Oooh.... I found a website where I can train to be a Jedi Knight!!! I
just have to send them 50$ to get access!

Ok, so I made that one up. But I have run into a bunch of
get-rich-quick sites. With plenty of "this worked for me" testimonials.
Should I believe all those, too?

Or is everything just a bunch of atoms bouncing around from the
beginning (In the Beginning, there was Nothing.... and then, it blew up)
of existence to this moment? None more worthy of notice than the next.
And we're merely a chemical soup without any value at all. Just more of
the nameless sea of matter and energy flowing to its innevitable
conclusion.

Oh, and people have tried for that "reward"- they were rebuffed by bad
science and all-out lies. I'd be no different. People who can't accept
the truth because they're conspiracy nutjubs sure as HELL aren't going
to accept the truth when it'll cost them millions of dollars.

Yep. I read the forum rules and it mentioned them. It just didn't give
me the procedures.

No, forget responsibility to ANY God. That judgement comes in the next
life.

It's responsibility in *this* world that we have to concern ourselves
with. Crocodiles don't have responsibility. They're animals. We do,
we're human.

Of course, if there's no "good" or "evil"- then how could their be
responsibility? If nothing is wrong, then no act is wrong. And thus, we
have no reason to feel remorse, no matter what the act.


If there's no difference between us and animals. Then there's no
difference between the Holocaust and a slaughterhouse. It's the genocide
of cows, after all. If all we are is animals, then killing us is like
killing an animal.


Or do you mourn for ever tree that falls in the woods. Do you feel
regret for every mosquito you swat or every ant you crush underfoot?

Me.... love this government.... I think you just insulted me, sir. Of
course, the insults of a liar mean little, if anything.

I don't troll. I just like the current events page. And you provide all
kinds of obvious and blatant lies to cut into. So, I do. It's, at least
in part, my nature.

So, 1000 of 46000 went missing. Do you realize that's actually pretty
good statistics? Considering "underprivileged" children are usually the
ones in foster care.... and the statistics on runaways and kidnappings
amongst the lower class.... the foster system is STILL doing better than
biology. Not by much, mind, but regardless.

Did you just imply bad people don't have money? And I don't recall any
proof on that site that it deserved to be trusted, so until you have
that- it's nothing but another piece of made-up internet flotsam. I
addressed the original point at hand.

The difference is still in free will. How is my logic inconsistent?

We humans have choice, and in choice responsibility for our actions.
Animals, rocks, and weather formations lack that choice. And thus,
although we can lament the events, we can not condemn the act.


And if there's no such thing as responsibility, how could we function?

Actually, the majority getting food stamps/etc. are the destitutely
poor. Which statistically is african americans. If you're going to be
racist, at least say something that isn't obviously a lie.

Speaking of which- if there's no "good" and "evil". No "right" and
"wrong" beyond empirical data.... why are we having this conversation?
Why do you bother speaking. If nothing matters, why do you choose to
continue to exist? It's not like it actually serves a purpose.

Says the guy who thinks there's no difference between a mass murderer
and a natural disaster?

It doesn't just take kids from good homes, you know. We're talking drug
abusers and criminals, here.

And statistically, fewer kids are abused/molested/neglected in foster
care than in the "protection" of their biological parents.

It's not a perfect system by any means. But it's doing a better job
than biology seems to be in this nation.

Evil is a very real thing. Everything with a soul believes it is. We
invent laws. We punish offenders. We don't send animals to "correctional
facilities". We don't hold trials for rabid dogs.

We can commit evil because *we have choice*. We can CHOOSE to help. And
we can CHOOSE to harm. That's what makes us different than animals.
That's why we *can* be good or evil.


And are you saying you think there's no difference between the death
wrought by that kid in VA tech and a tornado? That's just nausiating to
imply.

No, we don't need to consume human children to be as animals. But many
hundreds of species of animal do consume their young. And many thousands
more consume the young of other species. We, ourselves, eat veal.

Many people call that wrong. And perhaps it is- I certainly find the
practice repulsive-. But how is it wrong of us to do it, and not wrong
of another species? Either we're better, and special rules apply to us,
or we're not- and it's no different if it's human or animal. None of you
"we're equal" folk have explained that disparity. I've asked repeatedly.

Yes, I'm not a fan of Darfor or the other events of human history. But
just because some members are monsters, one cannot hold the entire
species responsible. We're all individuals. We are not at fault for the
crimes of our fallen brethren.


And many species of animal kill for, if not sport, then at least for
fun. Most breeds of cat. Some of the larger reptiles. Many primate
species. In fact, almost all breeds of ape are herbivores. And almost
all of them are also known to kill if iritated. Or if they don't like
the tribe you're from. Chimpanzees have war- with weapons.



Isn't it obvious we're divine? Our spirits come from somewhere. Our
souls are the part of us capable of actual love. Of hope. Of concern for
beings other than ourself. The very fact that we find events like Darfor
horrific is BECAUSE of our soul.

The purpose of the soul, I can not possibly know in full. We're not
even sure what 95% of our brain does. How could we begin to classify-
not one, but two, parts of our being that are not parts of our flesh?
Minds and souls. What belongs to one etheric part of us.... and what
belongs to the other?

I don't think we can "take responsibility" for our souls. They're PART
of us. Can we take responsibility for our (natural) hair color? Our soul
is part of our nature. What that nature means exactly is.... well, I'm
one mortal man.... how could I possibly know. We can trust our souls to
decide what souls are supposed to decide. Just as we trust our bodies to
tell us when we're hungry or tired.... and we trust our minds to
remember and decide things for us.

My respnse to those questions is still the same, humans decided...what
makes it ok for humans, and what makes it ok for crocodiles.

Humans decided..


How very.... atheist.... of you. Even Nietchze acknowleged humans were
beholden to higher laws.


But I ask you, again, is it ok for humans to eat human young?

It's certainly "ok" in a morality sence for a crocodile to eat a human
child. One cannot call the crocodile anything more than a dangerous
animal. Or, are you saying, crocodiles are capable of evil?

And it's ok for me to eat crocodile young (not that I would...
yuck....). Or are you saying it's evil of me to do so?


Look, there's only three conclusions.

1- humans are beings requiring special laws, thus making us higher
entities

2- humans are not, in fact, higher- and there's nothing wrong with us
committing all the horrific crimes other species do

3- "animals are people to"- and all predation should be punished as
humans punish their violent criminals


You pick. But there is no other option.