Topic: democratic dilemma
soxfan94's photo
Wed 02/20/08 06:35 AM

I think the biggest dilemma for the Democrats is that the two front runners are so diabolically opposed but almost even at the polls how is the two sides of the party ever going to unite when the dust settles..


In most other years I would agree that it would be very hard to re-unite the party...but with the current severe dislike (a gutsier person would say "hatred") of the Republicans, I don't think either will have any problem carrying all of the other's votes once the nomination is wrapped up.

no photo
Wed 02/20/08 06:44 AM
In most other years I would agree that it would be very hard to re-unite the party...but with the current severe dislike (a gutsier person would say "hatred") of the Republicans, I don't think either will have any problem carrying all of the other's votes once the nomination is wrapped up.


so what your saying is it doesn't matter who is leading the Democrats....it's all about the hatred of the Republicans...

soxfan94's photo
Wed 02/20/08 06:48 AM



so what your saying is it doesn't matter who is leading the Democrats....it's all about the hatred of the Republicans...


Well, let me clarify. I think for Democrats obviously they/we/I have very strong preferences about whether we would like to see Clinton or Obama get the nomination.

But once the nomination is set in stone, I have no doubt that Democrats will still vote (without much reluctance, I would think) for the Democrat, even if it's not who they supported.

no photo
Wed 02/20/08 06:57 AM
Well, let me clarify.


with all due respect that was not clarifying...that was a flipflop if you ask me...and I think your original answer was much more honest than your revised answer...

soxfan94's photo
Wed 02/20/08 07:04 AM
Edited by soxfan94 on Wed 02/20/08 07:05 AM

Well, let me clarify.


with all due respect that was not clarifying...that was a flipflop if you ask me...and I think your original answer was much more honest than your revised answer...


Hmm sorry that attempt failed...but I was just trying to say the same thing again in different words. I'll try paraphrasing:

post 1: "In most other years I would agree that it would be very hard to re-unite the party...but with the current severe dislike (a gutsier person would say "hatred") of the Republicans, I don't think either will have any problem carrying all of the other's votes once the nomination is wrapped up."

Paraphrase: This year, all Democrats will vote for the eventual democratic nominee regardless of whether it was the one they wanted to get the nomination.

post 2: "Well, let me clarify. I think for Democrats obviously they/we/I have very strong preferences about whether we would like to see Clinton or Obama get the nomination.

But once the nomination is set in stone, I have no doubt that Democrats will still vote (without much reluctance, I would think) for the Democrat, even if it's not who they supported."

Paraphrase: This year, all Democrats will vote for the eventual democratic nominee regardless of whether it was the one they wanted to get the nomination.

Cheers. drinker

zippyfear's photo
Wed 02/20/08 07:08 AM
Can't we just have a primary season 'Do Over!'?

Turtlepoet78's photo
Wed 02/20/08 07:21 AM
Go Obama!!! Wisconssin and Hawaii, that makes ten in a row. If the voting stopped now it looks like Obama would still be slightly ahead even with the supers going to Clinton. She's gonna have to start winning big from now on inorder to stay in the running, and I really hope she doesn't. I'm starting to lose my support for Mccain now too, it broke my heart to see him vote against the ban on water boarding, Obama may be the only hope left;^]

no photo
Wed 02/20/08 07:44 AM
In most other years I would agree that it would be very hard to re-unite the party...but with the current severe dislike (a gutsier person would say "hatred") of the Republicans, I don't think either will have any problem carrying all of the other's votes once the nomination is wrapped up.


You can't honestly believe that the above and below have the same message. The above clearly states that the Democrats in other years would have a problem re-uniting the party and the only reason the party can unite this year is due to the hatred of the Republicans conclude that either would not have a problem carrying all the other's vote presumably due to the hatred.
Can you point that out in your revised version below?


But once the nomination is set in stone, I have no doubt that Democrats will still vote (without much reluctance, I would think) for the Democrat, even if it's not who they supported.

soxfan94's photo
Wed 02/20/08 07:50 AM
Hmm, we may have to call in a third party to accurately determine this because apparently we are coming from very different perspectives. Let me see if I can take a smaller snippet from each and place them next to each other for similarities (I've bracketed some implicit mentions which may help clear things up?):


I don't think either [democrat] will have any problem carrying all of the other [democrat]'s votes once the nomination is wrapped up.


and


I have no doubt that Democrats will still vote (without much reluctance, I would think) for the Democrat, even if it's not [the democrat] they supported.


no photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:04 AM
^^^...your main subject of the original post was the hatred of the Republicans will put the Democrats back together. You can't sever that main point and use what you want to change the meaning of your post.....noway

Turtlepoet78's photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:08 AM
And republicans aren't gathering over a mutual hate for the democrats? Goes both ways;^]

soxfan94's photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:11 AM
Edited by soxfan94 on Wed 02/20/08 08:12 AM

^^^...your main subject of the original post was the hatred of the Republicans will put the Democrats back together. You can't sever that main point and use what you want to change the meaning of your post.....noway


So the question originally (and essentially) was: Do I think that the Democrats will unite and vote for their nominee regardless of whether it's Obama or Clinton.

My first answer included the reasoning (that dems hate republicans too much) and my answer (yes).

My second response contained only my answer (still yes).

I don't see the contradiction or flip flop, honestly.

no photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:13 AM

And republicans aren't gathering over a mutual hate for the democrats? Goes both ways;^]


actually if you read my original pose it had nothing to do with the hatred of one party for the other.

"I think the biggest dilemma for the Democrats is that the two front runners are so diabolically opposed but almost even at the polls how is the two sides of the party ever going to unite when the dust settles.."

and no...the Republicans are more of a united party and are mainly concerned with putting across their policies. There is almost no bashing between the two contenders unlike Clinton and Obama

no photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:16 AM


^^^...your main subject of the original post was the hatred of the Republicans will put the Democrats back together. You can't sever that main point and use what you want to change the meaning of your post.....noway


So the question originally (and essentially) was: Do I think that the Democrats will unite and vote for their nominee regardless of whether it's Obama or Clinton.

My first answer included the reasoning (that dems hate republicans too much) and my answer

My second response contained only my answer (still yes).

I don't see the contradiction or flip flop, honestly.


you can try to twist it as much as you want and in your eyes I'm sure you think your real clever...have a nice day

Turtlepoet78's photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:18 AM
laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
northn_yanke, you must be blind if you think the republicans are united behind the issues, the GOP has been full of bickering since the beginning of these campaigns and constantly refer to the dems with name calling. At least Obama thanked Mccain for his service. You must be one of those people who stand behind the republican nomatter what, blinding yourself to the reality of it all;^]

soxfan94's photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:19 AM
Oh man, you're acting as if I'm trying to deceive you or somehow swindle you. Maybe you're right and I'm seeing it all wrong, or being unclear, but there's no need to be contentious about it.

For clarity's sake my answer to your original question is:

Yes I think the Democrats will fall in line behind whichever candidate gets the democratic nomination.

smo's photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:22 AM

Go Obama!!! Wisconssin and Hawaii, that makes ten in a row. If the voting stopped now it looks like Obama would still be slightly ahead even with the supers going to Clinton. She's gonna have to start winning big from now on inorder to stay in the running, and I really hope she doesn't. I'm starting to lose my support for Mccain now too, it broke my heart to see him vote against the ban on water boarding, Obama may be the only hope left;^]


That is what I think: OBAMA is the only hope left for America(Land of Heaven)

Somebody said the other day : HOW come we only get to choose among 2 Candidates when in the MISS AMERICA contest they have 50 to choose from?drinker drinker

soxfan94's photo
Wed 02/20/08 08:25 AM

...
Somebody said the other day : HOW come we only get to choose among 2 Candidates when in the MISS AMERICA contest they have 50 to choose from?drinker drinker


Because if we switched to that system, we'd have to see Hillary in a bikini!! noway noway laugh

mnhiker's photo
Wed 02/20/08 02:24 PM


...
Somebody said the other day : HOW come we only get to choose among 2 Candidates when in the MISS AMERICA contest they have 50 to choose from?drinker drinker


Because if we switched to that system, we'd have to see Hillary in a bikini!! noway noway laugh


sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick

no photo
Wed 02/20/08 10:34 PM



The democratic primaries are shaping up to end with neither Obama nor Clinton receiving enough pledged delegates to secure the nomination. This would leave the decision hinging on the superdelegates, who are not bound by anything in who they choose.

Do you think they should place their vote for the candidate that they think will do the best in the general election, or put aside all personal thoughts and simply place their vote for whoever has the most votes from the public?


soxfan...... We are talking about politicians. The 795 super delegates are elected to that position. Therefore, these super delegates are going to do whatever is best for their political careers, and the country be damned.


Well I agree and, quite frankly, this means that they will do what's best for the people. One of the political analysts last night put it best when he said (I'm paraphrasing here:

"These superdelegates are politicians, not kamikazes. They will only be able to support the candidate of their own choice if the race stays close. If one candidate or the other begins to turn the balance significantly in their favor, or if there is a clamorous outcry from their constituents, they will effectively be forced to vote in line with the public due to re-election concerns."

And I agree with that. In fact, even if the race stays fairly close, I think they will wind up voting with their districts due to concern of an anti-democratic backlash.



soxfan..... what you are saying makes sense, particularly since I was channel surfing tonight and heard the pundits continually say. if Hillary doesn't win the next two states, it is all over for her. Their reasoning is that Obama is ahead by almost 900,000 votes. Therefore, the super delegates cannot go against that and must vote for Obama.

I have another question on Obama/Hillary since you seem to be abreast on everything. Hillary is yelling foul play, because Obama will not accept Federal election funds since his war chest is so full of the independent/internet donations and he doesn't need the money. What is the big deal in Obama not accepting Federal campaign funds, other than it making Obama look good since all his money is coming from the people?