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Let me also place a kind of long quote that explains what I was talking about with translations. "To understand what Matthew means when he says "He (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) UNTIL she gave birth to a son", one only has to look at the Hebrew meaning of "until" and other references in the bible. "Until" makes reference to ONLY the time that has passed before the occurence; therefore meaning "before". It does not mean that Joseph necessarily had relations with Mary after this time. Two examples in the bible which support this: 1 Timothy 4:13 "Till I come, attend to reading, to exhortation, and to the doctrine". This clearly doesn't mean that they should stop this when he returns, but rather "while I am gone". Another example from Psalms 109:1 "The Lord said to my Lord: Sit Thou at my right hand UNTIL I make Thy enemies Thy footstool". We know that that the Lord is eternally at God's right hand and not just "until" he makes His enemies His footstool. As for Jesus having siblings, the use of word "firstborn" is not meant to suggest that Mary had other children after Jesus, but that she bore no child prior to this. According to the Law of Moses, "thou shalt dedicate the first born of every household" (Exodus 13:11-16). When Matthew refers to Jesus' "brothers" (James, Joseph, Simon and Judas) and "sisters", since the bible never mentions that Mary bore other children, it is likely that they were his cousins or nephews. According to Jewish custom, as is African languages, there are no special terms for various degrees in family relationships, so cousins and nephews are all included as brother and sister. Lot and Abraham were refered to as "brothers" although the bible later describes them as uncle/nephew. "Thare's sons were called Abraham, Nachor and Aran; and Aran had a son called Lot" (Gen 13:8)." What relavance does the Hebrew meaning of a word have when you are discussing a document written in Greek? I think that the meaning of the word should be first determined from context. The context in Matthew 1:25 is very clear. Mary was Joseph's wife. The Bible tells us in many places that it is a wifes duty to make love to her husband and it is the husband's duty to make love to his wife. I have been told by on Catholic that Mary Magdelene was Joseph's favorite whore and that's how Jesus met her. She had been taught that Joseph slept with whores, so that his wife would always be a virgin. Does that sound like the kind of childhood God would have wanted for his son? Living with a man who frequents whores? Maybe God wasn't worried about his son's childhood. Okay, we are told by the Catholic church that Mary was completely pure and sinless...wouldn't a wife be guilty of sin if she refused her husband sex to the point that he had to frequent whores? The whole story is too fanciful to be believed. Husbands and wives have sex. Mary was a virgin until after Jesus was born. Then she had sex with her husband and they had children. |
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especially for the degradion of the little kid.especially little boys.thats enought to make any human turn over it the grave.the reason i posted this, is because i reciently, was contacted by one . he said on the profile he was white. i ask for a picture. he sent me one. great looking guy.just happened to be black.why lie? then i saw he was catholic.so i reponded to the pic. about being lie to.then the fath,i just ask if he was raised in that church or lived it or was that something his parents believed ,catholic.it up set him very much.sorry.i hav nothing against black men. just I am not going to date one.especially a catholic .thank for the input. God Bless you all gen I've certainly spent some time in Catholic Churches.. as well as Protestant. I have run into many in both Churches that I have had issues with.. as I have run into people from every faith, and no faith at all... whom would not be allowed to cross the threshold of my front door. For a variety of behaviors that are immoral, unethical, judgmental and very against the standard ~ regardless of how one might measure it. So? If I used the principle, I take it you are suggesting... There would be no such thing as a good belief or even non belief. Saying you are not judgmental...Then backing it up by indicating it is good to think badly of an entire group by focusing on the behavior of a few? That is sorta judgmental... by definition. |
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I know some very nice Catholic people, but not that much about the faith.
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Of course Mary had sex. She had a son Jesus. She had sex out of wed lock. Just like so many people do today. Instead of condemning woman like that maybe you should be looking for the second coming there. |
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Let me also place a kind of long quote that explains what I was talking about with translations. "To understand what Matthew means when he says "He (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) UNTIL she gave birth to a son", one only has to look at the Hebrew meaning of "until" and other references in the bible. "Until" makes reference to ONLY the time that has passed before the occurence; therefore meaning "before". It does not mean that Joseph necessarily had relations with Mary after this time. Two examples in the bible which support this: 1 Timothy 4:13 "Till I come, attend to reading, to exhortation, and to the doctrine". This clearly doesn't mean that they should stop this when he returns, but rather "while I am gone". Another example from Psalms 109:1 "The Lord said to my Lord: Sit Thou at my right hand UNTIL I make Thy enemies Thy footstool". We know that that the Lord is eternally at God's right hand and not just "until" he makes His enemies His footstool. As for Jesus having siblings, the use of word "firstborn" is not meant to suggest that Mary had other children after Jesus, but that she bore no child prior to this. According to the Law of Moses, "thou shalt dedicate the first born of every household" (Exodus 13:11-16). When Matthew refers to Jesus' "brothers" (James, Joseph, Simon and Judas) and "sisters", since the bible never mentions that Mary bore other children, it is likely that they were his cousins or nephews. According to Jewish custom, as is African languages, there are no special terms for various degrees in family relationships, so cousins and nephews are all included as brother and sister. Lot and Abraham were refered to as "brothers" although the bible later describes them as uncle/nephew. "Thare's sons were called Abraham, Nachor and Aran; and Aran had a son called Lot" (Gen 13:8)." What relavance does the Hebrew meaning of a word have when you are discussing a document written in Greek? I think that the meaning of the word should be first determined from context. The context in Matthew 1:25 is very clear. Mary was Joseph's wife. The Bible tells us in many places that it is a wifes duty to make love to her husband and it is the husband's duty to make love to his wife. I have been told by on Catholic that Mary Magdelene was Joseph's favorite whore and that's how Jesus met her. She had been taught that Joseph slept with whores, so that his wife would always be a virgin. Does that sound like the kind of childhood God would have wanted for his son? Living with a man who frequents whores? Maybe God wasn't worried about his son's childhood. Okay, we are told by the Catholic church that Mary was completely pure and sinless...wouldn't a wife be guilty of sin if she refused her husband sex to the point that he had to frequent whores? The whole story is too fanciful to be believed. Husbands and wives have sex. Mary was a virgin until after Jesus was born. Then she had sex with her husband and they had children. Because the original bible was not written in greek. |
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Because the original bible was not written in greek. There is no "original bible". If you mean the tanach, then yes, it's in Hebrew and a little Aramaic. But the oldest versions we have of the gospel of Matthew, are in Greek. They were written for Roman audiences and Greek was the universal language at the time. There is no historical evidence of which I am aware that indicates that the Gospel of Matthew was in Hebrew or that it was not written in Greek. |
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Here's a question: Does Mary's virginity or lack there of really change anything about your respective faiths?
Unless you disagree on who Jesus is, what He did, and what He calls us to do, you should at least be able to agree on Christianity and agree to disagree on the smaller details that shouldn't affect how you live out your faith anyway. |
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where did you come from?what planet r u on?lol
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where did you come from?what planet r u on?lol You would quote the person you are addressing or at least give their name, so everyone knows who you are talking to. Welcome to the forums. |
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I don`t think that it matters what church one attends but what`s in the heart,for GOD is not going to judge the church HE is going to judge the heart.
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I don`t think that it matters what church one attends but what`s in the heart,for GOD is not going to judge the church HE is going to judge the heart. 
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Edited by
Chazster
on
Wed 02/13/08 06:35 PM
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Here's a question: Does Mary's virginity or lack there of really change anything about your respective faiths? Unless you disagree on who Jesus is, what He did, and what He calls us to do, you should at least be able to agree on Christianity and agree to disagree on the smaller details that shouldn't affect how you live out your faith anyway. No it doesn't. My point was that they are trying to say that she isn't or that Jesus had siblings. These statements are certainties and not possibles. I was just making a point that we don't really know either way. I am catholic and I wouldn't be surprised either way, but I won't know until I meet the man upstairs. |
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The last mention of Joseph, in the bible, is that Jesus' parents presented him in the temple when he was twelve years old. After that, there is no mention of Joseph. God via The Holy Spirit is the father of Jesus. The conception was achieved without Mary losing her virginity. There is no further mention of the life of Mary and Joseph together. I do not believe that The Blessed Mother ever "knew" man. Theirs is a special situation and Joseph was a faithful man. I accept that Mary and Joseph had no sexual relations due to the nature of their special situation/ Mary is the mother of God. I accept the insinuation of the Church that he died sometime after the Temple of Jerusalem presentation of Jesus at age 12.
We do not worship Mary instead of God. She is venerated as the mother of our Saviour. We do pray to her. We pray through her to her Son. She has appeared to children through the centuries and she taught them how to pray the rosary. Who better than the mother of The Lord be asked to pray for us to the Lord our God? |
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 TRY  READ > THE NEW TESTMENT:STARTING WITH MATTHEW
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TRY READ > THE NEW TESTMENT:STARTING WITH MATTHEW
How about we just cut to the chase.. and you tell us your interpretation. |
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I'm catholic and I must admit Catholics know the least about their religion. I know more than most 60 year olds i know that are catholic...
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I'm catholic and I must admit Catholics know the least about their religion. I know more than most 60 year olds i know that are catholic... There are some excellent Catholic apologists. There is something about Catholocism that causes laziness in the adherants, but I don't know that it's any worse than any other Christian church. It's good that you are learning about your religion and about God. 1 Corinthians 1:31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
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