children, family, love.........each of these already exists, so it is only attempting to define or CONTROL what they are that destroy them......it is only thinking he is selfish and not supposed to be that make him weak, and then need to drink to cope with the failure he has been convinced he is, so if you wish to make him strong you will never do so by convincing him all the more he is defective.....how can one say another is selfish and think they are not........each thing that is alive is selfish and what drive us to our destiny and wisdom......you see him as selfish and it hide your view of selfish in yourself, and make you feel as though you are not, and this be the only failure place to live, as this is an unaware place, and a place of only good intentions, a place where many others are disgarded as defective and unholy and selfish.....if you wish to quote bible things to him, then REMIND him the stuff he does not remember, the part where it says NO MAN CAN RESIST THE WILL OF GOD, THAT ALL ANY NEED DO IS PROFESS ALL THEY ARE TO FIND HAPPINESS, THAT ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD, THAT TO LIVE BY THE LAW OF THE BIBLE IS TO DIE BY THE LAW OF THE BIBLE.....so to live and then for those around each to live it is only to embrace what we are, say what we are, and it was also said, ONES OWN GOOD EFFORTS WILL BE IN VAIN, AND ALL SELF EFFORT FOR PEACE AND HAPPINESS IS AS FILTHY RAGS......then he will hear the god that whispers from each HEAVEN/HEART/LOVE/GOD within and become strong and know WHY he was made weak for a time.....if the truth be heard it make FREE, so if you speak to him and he is not set free, then it be not the whole truth for him......how can anything be chained to a vice if they have heard ALL the truth.....IMPOSSIBLE

"you see him as selfish and it hide your view of selfish in yourself, and make you feel as though you are not"

I realize that all humans have a selfish instinct in them.
Once one has a child, it is amazing how much that selfishness decreases.

This man still carries the selfish addict behavior in him as he is still early in recovery. I don't see him as selfish. His behavior shows it for me.

One example: It is selfish when a man stands his child up on their birthday because he took an all day nap and didn't feel like doing anything that day. As a parent, one has to do things even when they don't feel like it.

Are you saying that if I tell him that that was a selfish thing to do, that it will not make him strong?

yes, i am......think of a flower, and how the make up.....roots, stem, then leaves.....humans are like plants, and grow just the same, and one would never tell a flower how wilted it's leaves are to make wilty leaves go away......this will keep another looking at their wilting leaves and not at their own roots or thoughts that create all things created......rather make each flower see how night and day are both needed to grow, then the rain of wisdom can norish, and no leaf can then be wilted........of course, each thing to me is perfect, and each thought is perfect, and give wisdom when taken as a story and not as commandments.....if you have a problem with the mans behaviour there is a reason.....i am only saying what you are telling him will not eliminate anything, but rather can make it grow bigger.....even if one do as another asks and strong control or manipulation can make happen by using the strong desire to be loved in another to obey, what caused it is still in the person, and only repressed for anothers sake, and why it can comes out later even bigger than before......

You are both correct, the first step is to admit we're powerless over our addiction. With the help of our Higher Power (Jesus Christ is mine) we can overcome the second most powerful force in the universe (Satan, who is the source of all addictions). But it does require a desire to quit, and a commitment to follow thru with the steps needed to succeed.

One of the steps I had to take was change my playground and my playmates. My old friends werent interested in my sobriety and spending time at the local bar wasnt gonna help me to not drink. Thank God I have a supportive family (my children) so that is a safe haven for me. Its so much harder for someone to stay clean and sober if others in their household are still getting high or drinking.

I totally agree with you MillerTime. I lost my family when I decided to get sober. That was 16yrs ago (April 1) and they are still not back in my life. It's hard not to have their support especially since most them belong in the rooms also.
I was lucky I didn't have to change playgrounds or playmates I didn't have either at the end.
Sobriety has given me so much; things that I never would have wanted when active. I'm grateful for everyday I wake up sober.

Thats too bad about your family Twitch. But we have to do what we have to do to maintain sobriety. I will put you in my prayers

David,

I see your point of view. But...

I believe in positive reinforcement for postive behavior.

I believe that negative behavior has consequences.

And my highest belief - the child comes first.

But...if someone is in recovery - their recovery comes first and then the child.

Btw, it would help me if you could put more paragraphs in your replies.

i totally agree with all you say winx......i only said that to tell another of an act they commit, is to tell them a symtom of a bigger problem

this practice will then keep another from actually seeing there own true reason for failure.....if this man drinks too much and is unhappy about it, than we must see what makes him first unhappy with himself in the beginning, as this is what make him drown in self-despair......

to find this will remove the control that drinking has over him

this you cannot help him find if you keep him looking at his failures

be his friend and encourage him to talk about all the NEGATIVES.......these are the ones most often not spoken because we feel like bad people for doing such, and so are the ones that then go to work controlling and making bad behaviour.....

when we speak we accomplish one of two good things.....first.....we expell the untruths from our mind that we have kept pent up, and control us, and have caused us to create many failures and much unhappiness

the body expells all we eat that is not benificial, and the mind works the same as the body.....the mind itself works itself just the same as it does when it control all the body functions of the body.....

secondly, and just as important, we prounce into the beginning of existence all that we shall create around us, the good and the bad.......

just as any house is built with balance, and many things used in construction could also be used to create say a weapon, such is all the things we speak, so we react to them as weapons and not see they are for good......

can one make a cake with just sugar.....many resist speaking bitterness, and but this must go into the cake just the same, or it will be a flop and a cake no one wish to be around.....love equal praise and anger blended together to create a loving cake, but rememeber when the cake is baked and complete is when it is to be enjoyed and eaten, not during the making process, and when it is done there is neither anger or love as we know it present, only truth that care and create all good

i said for you to tell him he is selfish will change nothing, as this is pronouncing more judgement on him, and he already knows in his own heart and hears aloud his own judgement, but is scared to pay heed to it, and to say aloud this, you make him more afraid to face himself.......but if you tell him how it make you feel, the slow pain and process you feel by his action, if this is what you feel, or perhaps the child is whom is feeling it and you are trying with all good intentions to protect from pain.......either way, spoken from the person who feels the bad speak real to him, and have power, and speaking such will make him find WHY he dissapoint those he loves, or run away from you, and the pain that he feels from doing such....either way, you win and the children win, as nothing will be accomplished good until it is first seen how to build good things, and the prinicples found that one needs to know

tell one they are an alcoholic each day, and see how much more they will become one all the more.....it is a simple truth, but any alcoholic that had to learn the hard way and was told this themselves, many will at first feel others should experience the same pain they had to feel, and that their experience be the only way to freedom, but this lay in front of each recovery the same trappped that befell the last, and is not needed......whole logic can stop and bad long before anything like disastor has to happen.......don't believe me, but rather try it and see

if one become more selfish, and resist not selfishness, than they find the true self inside, that is not selfish, and cares most about others and truth that can change anything bad situation into good.......this lie underneath every exterior we see, and to know change the universe that each exist in

the truest form of selfishness is what save a person from themself, and make them see that no matter how many things they have, or how many agree with their point of view of what be fair and unfair, right or wrong, that they will never be happy even if they find their own happiness and the ones they care about are not happy the same.....

only speaking all felt for good or bad will can change
anything to good........it is a looming wall of fear that try to keep from happening, and why often is not done until there is nothing left to lose, in the middle of great failure or doom, but i do not agree that each must come to disastor to hear the truth of themselves, as each thing has truth in it, so it must either repell or accept truth, just as a magnet does, as we have been shown we each are like magnets but just don't understand why....... we have much energy that we do not know how to use, and only use about 15% of our brain most scientists and medical professionals say, so what are we missing....


society has been taught from every source that many things are defective, and if something is seen as defective, then no solution will be sought from a undefective frame of mind, and so none found, and more defective is what will be created......what evil or good exist except but what all humans have made

i am not good at explaining these things so please forgive the ramshackle way they are written.....but i do know the principles are true and all science, history, religion, eduation and even imagination prove them to be so......is that enough paragraphs, lol

Please try and remember that selfishness is what we need to get rid of.

Alot of people refer to a 12 step program as a selfish program , I strongly disagree rather I refer to it as a self first program we need to clean up ourselves in order to help others. Helping others is what the meat and potatoes are in recovery.

Just had enough time to grab a quick hug before our NA meeting from a friend last evening because I had something else to do at the last minute. I think I am going keep that tradition up. Life is too short; Have desert first. I will go to a meeting tonight because I like the after the meeting hugs, too.

jonlaw, you are awesome man, and your inner core is not selfish AT ALL.....if one believe they are selfish, than they see others as selfish.....we look out eyes that see THRU ourselves.......if one try most to be selfish, they will see that they like others more and more for them, and not for what they GET from them

each is perfect in their core being........it is DISAPPOINMENT IN ONESELF THAT MAKE ONE ADDICTED TO ANYTHING.....

no one will disagree that many self help things will control behaviour, but will not return you to the person you were before SOMETHING convinced each they were BAD, or selfish, or whatever many will try to attach to others looking thru their own self they see as defective and speak to you what their mind says they need to work on.....so they tell you, and failure is perpetuated expedentially

how can one NOT be disappointed in others if they are of themselves.......it is impossible unless you make yourself to ignore, and this will bring more failures by not reacting when one should to good needed data about where others are in their learning......

we see each thru our own failures, so recognize others failures MORE......

you go to your meetings to fix yourself........not for others, so how is what your doing already not most about you.....it is just about you and your failures, so produce only small control, and control that one fear always they will lose

each being is selfish, but to see this as a bad thing, make it bigger, and keep one from getting all the way deep inside to themself, where there is only love for others first.....just what you are, not a thing any person that has to think about it can do.......

to know oneself is good already, and not believing what others say to make you treat them the way THEY want, a selfish act that MUST try to control what is good and bad, which make one automatically see bad the more......is this not the very reason that Jesus did not condem......and got MAD at those that told the people they were NOT good..........jonlaw, i am not saying this has been said much, but what does one have to lose if they just switch one little thought in the mind.......each time the mind plague to be good, try responding with here to become smart instead.....this will change everything and has no bad side effects......what can changing one thought hurt.....

here to become smart/wise, not good, takes away the fair-unfair thinking that make many depressed and lead to many addictions....

we often think of some person we seen and thought, "damn, they are miserable, and look, they are soooooooo selfish......but this one was not miserable because they were selfish, but rather because they were hating themself for being selfish, and so treated others in more hate than most, because they had MORE good reasons with all their money to believe they were selfish........the mind said they were, and so each that say anything that could even relate to MAYBE selfishness, they take this to their heart, and respond with defense, and try to prove they are not, when another may not have meant anything about selfishness at all, and was just stating a fact.....self help is a cycle that one never gets off......wonder why the scriptures say try to SAVE oneself, and lose your life, all that is good to see, taste, hear, smell and touch that bring passion and joy to life

Hi Everyone:

I have been kinda overdoeing it with all work and no play so am going to change my program a little. I have been sober but at times I get lonely because well at first no friends to go and hang with because am keeping away from my old crowd to protect my sobriety.

I joined the Y.M.C.A. (ok no village people jokes...lol) . I hope everyone id doing well and even if one is struggling please feel free to talk about it because thats where recovery begins. Anyway hope you all have a wonderful day and talk soon.

Hi Again This thread appears to be dying so does anyone care to come up with any other subjects they want to talk about???

I agree with what you say. I have known hopeless alcoholics who are extremely selfish. They proceed to wreck their lives and their loved ones lives and all they think about is .. them self.

Their wife divorces them, their children are left sitting on the street curb in the rain after being evicted from their home, while this selfish addicted tortured person attempts suicide, gets arrested and lands in jail. And all he thinks about is him self. What is he going to do now.

Compare that to the 12 step program and which is more selfish? At least the 12 step program works at getting the person back to some normal kind of life.

But it will never work until that person decids to take responsibility for him or her self. If you can't be responsible for yourself you certainly can't be responsible for anyone else.

If you can't love and care about yourself you can't love and care about anyone else. It has to begin with self.

JB

This thread just needs more thread stoppers to put it out of its misery. The pain is necessary but the misery is optional. One thing I was told early on in recovery is that I will never have to take another drink again in my life if I didn't want to. I can remember my sponsor telling me that he didn't have a drinking problem and there wasn't anything wrong with his swallowing. Later, I learned that we have a living problem just like everyone else after the obsession to drink is took away. We couldn't drown our problems so we just had to learn how to deal with them. It was the most wonderful thing when I was given coping skills in AA and NA. If ever I get too lonely I go to a meeting. My favorite line in NA is we are sick people. We just love saying 'sick' together when reading the preamble at NA. The after meeting hug when say, "A moment of silence for the addict born today and the addict who will die tonight." Just love the line afterwards, too. "And for the children caught in the crossfire." Because we all are children caught in the crossfire. I get a special feeling when we close with, "Take my will and my life. Guide me in my recovery. And show me how to live. Clean." Hope you are having a good day, Jon.

Wishing you well in your recovery.

One day at a time....

and have Faith.

dont you all know that drugs and alcihol are the same they are both mind bugling . They do something to the mind/

I've been clean for 5 years from both. Some of us dont think drugs and alciol are different. But they are . so different we think as a adict that we can have on until we have lost it all and need something more..... 12345 and then we go and get what we really want.. Are you all with me.. Remember to take one day at a time and use your tools... take care..

Hello everybody!

My name is Bearsman and I am an alcoholic.

I have just celebrated 22 years on May 1st.

"Longevity is a beautiful thing,
but all we really have is Today!"

Anon a mouse

Yippee!! (((Bear)))

Happy Dance!!