I just got here. I have not read this thread.

My answer to "is faith a gift" is I don't know for anyone else; but it is for me. I have been given the gift of faith.

And if it works for me......then it is good. If it makes me happy....then it is good.

What anyone else does with it? Well.....it's whatever they do with it.

Kat

Hiya Kat...

Hi ya sweet.

I am tired and a bit brain dead. I may just read along for awhile. Not too sure I am ready for a full on discussion tonight.

Kat

If you stand by the definition then I suggest that no one has faith in anything.

If someone says to you, “Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so”.

Is that faith? Not by your definition! They just gave you the reason they believe it! Because they read it in a book!

Then you’re next question to them would be, “Well why do you believe the book? Do you believe everything you read?”

If people are honest at that point they will probably tell you because the book is popular, or something similar to that. Whatever their reason for believing in the book will still be a reason.

Most people have some reason why they believe in something. Even if it was because of a vision, or an experience they had, or intuition. Whatever the reason it’s still a reason.

I seriously doubt that anyone believes in anything without *some* reason.

So all you are saying is that it’s impossible to have faith by your definition of faith.

I think most people simply wouldn’t agree with your definition of faith. That’s pretty much where I would stand. I would just say that we have different concepts on what faith means. And leave it at that. No need to convince each other to change our concepts of faith.

Abra... Yes the proposition was indeed for thought and contemplation only...

No reason for me to convince anyone either way... I just enjoy the discussion, it encourages thought...

Just for understanding though... so one does not mistakenly think I made those definitions up...



To clarify... this is not my individual definition, I will repost below...it is verbatim all contained within my Webster's collegiate... when concerning the comparitive differences... according to Webster's... interpreted by the 'observer'...

Belief is the term with the broadest application in this comparison, and it implies mental acceptance of something as true, even though absolute certainty may be absent.

Faith implies complete unquestioning acceptance even in the absence of proof and especially of something not supported by reason.

Faithful implies steadfast adherence to a person or a thing to which one is bound as by an oath or an obligation[a faithful wife].

Trust implies assurance, often apparently intuitive, in the reliability of something or someone.


Just for thought's sake Abra... no other agenda, my friend...

Faith is not a gift but we can get it if we want it through hard work. Faith is believing in something completely with out Doubt. It doesn't come naturally , it comes by changing ourselves.
Jesus had faith in his father thats why he made miracles .. thats why God is seen in to him.... He had worked hard for it.. he have been tasted to it... But he never MADE mistake . We all can be flawless and perfect but we didn't want to or we didn't tried hard.
Those who didn't see but believe are the blessed ones... so we have to believe although we didn't see.... but we will see if we seek God ..

If faith is a belief in the unreasonable, then faith would be a curse, not a gift.

I'd have to say first that I don't think "faith" is of an unquestioning nature. I believe it to be ebb & flow in nature.

To quote, "Lord, I believe . . . but help me mine unbelief."

Unfortunately, I think we'll just end up quibbling over semantics--no offense to Webster. It's probably best that I bow out of the debate for now. Good luck with your arguments. I'll check back to see how things develop.

Whiteboy...

I hear ya...there are many more definitions against my claims than for... which is ok... It is why I wrote the definition.

Not a problem really...

I feel discussion rather than debate with some anyway...

Although I do enjoy a good debate...

Could you explain to me what you believe the difference(s) is/are between faith and belief?

Just curious...

EDIT:

Oh yeah... I must admit a mistake on my part with the religious aspect. It was mistaken for me to not apply religious affiliation, as the very word originated as a result of religion, I believe...

TO Creative:

I think your position is that faith doesn't necessarily require belief, but only requires acceptance without question. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think belief precedes faith and trust, and is essential to both concepts.

When people says they believe A, they're really saying that they accept A as the truth. If I provide sufficient evidence to refute A, or if no one provides the necessary evidence to justify A, then holding that belief is faith. However, if people say they believe B not A, then they're saying B to be the truth. If there isn't sufficient evidence to refute B, or someone provides the necessary evidence to justify B, then holding that belief is trust.

That's my position. I'm open to debate...er...discussion.

Please clear up your definition of "reason" for this discussion. Thanks.

Whiteboy...

Indeed, it is a semantic issue at best...

Using your example... interrupted at times to comment...

******* When people says they believe A, they're really saying that they accept A as the truth. *******

>>>>>>> Agreed* (with an asterisk...) <<<<<<<

*******If I provide sufficient evidence to refute A, or if no one provides the necessary evidence to justify A, then holding that belief is faith.*******

>>>>>>> That is where our difference lies... I would claim that they accepted A as truth by faith, causing their perception of reality to change as a result, creating individual and supporting internalizations thereof, lending their reason within themselves. At that point is where my claim lies that what was accepted by faith is now supported by reason, which makes it a belief. <<<<<<<


Either way... no right, no wrong... I understand the perspective you have presented, and it is a much more common one than mine, for sure...

Perhaps you can have a better understanding of why my claim was presented as such...

Good conversation either way...

TO Creative:

Nonetheless, it's been a fun topic. Thanks for the good discussion. Much appreciated.

I have " Faith " that all things all matters all events all life obstacles all my belief has a reason a purpose,, questioning it at times yet never wondering to far off track,,, Faith lives in my soul,, breaths life into my being,,, lets me simply be me,,, a soul who wonders, ponders and sits back and sighssssssssssss when the light shows me the way,,,

or is faith for those that wish to be Gods ...because believers believe that by utterring the words faith that something becomes truth ....isn't that what Gods do

is faith the mechanism to be used to place one in the mind frame to induce their evolution into Gods..by inducing one's subconscious to carry out canscious commands and make things true just by the mere utterance of the word "faith" ..isn't that what Gods are capable of doing

is that what is meant by the "Word" that the word will set you free ..is this freedom actually how to activate "Free Will" by saying the word "faith"

so is the word "faith" actually the word that will induce the next step into human evolution....when Man becomes God

I know God is in every single aspect of my life. I also know that my faith in The Lord God will see me through anything that happens in my life....Your answer and mine are the difference between true faith an not. Because how in the world could you have unwavering faith and not believe that God has a hand in every single aspect of ones life.

For me is very much is!

Well Feral...

I don't believe 'God' has hands...

and




arr arr arr



and


giggle giggle tee hee