He knows how much you can take kinda thing before you go through it, ya mean?

Should one entertain the notion of divine intervention on a personal level, then one would have to apply some type of 'reason' to explain why bad things happen...

How does this then coincide with faith?

No more like a destiny type thing. A soul returns to this earth plane to learn and grow. Situations for the required lessons must therefore be encountered by the soul during the incarnation. Free will comes into play by the choices made by that individual when presented with the situations. Ties in with the psychological aspect of repeating patterns, until the pattern is consciously recognized and then consciously changed if harmful to the individual's concept of how that individuals life should be. That sounded really circular, sorry.

It coincides with faith in the belief that there is a divine reason for everything. The faith part is that you just don't understand it and that the reasoning behind it is for the higher and greater good even though it looks bad at the moment.

convictions, choices, no wonder I'm lost.

In other words, the end result has not yet become apparent.

Faith is believing with out seeing. Yes I do have faith to know that I have faith because I believe that this building that I am in will not crumble down and fall on me, I have faith that I will have a safe journey on my way home today. If I dont believe I dont have faith

Lost how, chuck? Convictions were in the other thread which is way off from this one, although I would have to say mine would go with me where ever I go.

I was teasing, I am secure in my beliefs.

Actually wench, there are no wrong ways to look at existence, as far as I'm concerned. I believe we all must walk our path, according to where our path has been. In many senses I too, can relate to your explanation.

With the 'faith' thing though, I wonder how often one may attribute 'faith' to what one has been taught concerning that subject, which really is 'belief', and not 'faith', according to the most discerning of definitions.

No matter what the belief. Is it possible to beleive without a personal event to establish why?

Should I have stated I am secure with my faith and beliefs?

chuck366:

You should state whatever you choose. It is definitely not for me to determine another's 'ought' without proper evidence to establish good reason for such a determination...

Say what you will young man...

For myself, I have intentionally attempted to lay down previous understanding(s) in an attempt to gain a 'broader' one, laying down that which does not resonate within, amd carrying along that which does. The product of which is not always completely understood until circumstances later arise which test the 'teachings'... as it were.

Perhaps that is the basis for one with unquestioning faith. I would have to say most people that post in these forums have questioning minds or minds that feel the need to express that faith at least. My reasoning would be you're not going to get unquestioning faith in these forums that often. The very nature of the forum sort of requires evidence. Very rarely will you get a solid because it just IS as an allowed answer here (not to be soundly pounced on for having no basis of thought/proof/consideration of why that is believed) and with that definition of faith your requiring that IS the correct answer.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I got it, I got it - you're secure in whatever the heck it is you believe/have faith in. Sorry, I haven't run across you that much, can't say what that is.

I think if a person looks at faith from genuine honest and objective view then,…

Faith = Expectations

It’s really as simple as that. If you have faith in a partner, you probably mean that you expect that they will behave in certain ways. I hold this as truth because actions of a partner can indeed cause a person to lose faith in them. Also, actions by a partner are often result in them being called unfaithful.

In this way faith really is a two-way street. Having faith in someone it to believe that they will keep their word. If you listen to many Christians and Christian songs they will talk about the promises that Jesus made to them. They love Jesus because he promised them eternal life. They have faith that he will keep his promise (i.e. they have expectations).

This might seem like a cold hard fact of life, because faith is so often associate with love, yet in reality it’s a very pragmatic ideal. To have faith in anything is to have expectations. Loss of faith is almost always associated with a feeling that expectations have not been met.

Most Christians that I know including some very famous ones, have often stated with conviction that if Jesus wasn’t God then he was a liar and a fraud. In other words, they have great expectations that what was written about him was true, and if those expectations were to be shown to be false, their faith would instantly vaporize. Many of them have grossly stated that they would crucify him themselves if it turned out that he was a fraud. Pretty nasty thoughts don’t ya think?

Faith ultimately depends on expectations. If there are no expectations then there’s no need to have any faith. They clearly go hand-in-hand. One is a meaningless concept without the other. The mere fact that a person has faith in something simply means that they expect it to hold true. That’s what faith means.

Faith = Expectations

Aww wench...

'Pounced on' is such a violent expression...

I had 'faith' until I questioned it.

Tiggers pounce and they're not violent, their laughter is a little maniacal, but I really don't think they're violent --- exuberant perhaps?

Abra...I love ya man... but this time, we do not agree...



You have defined trust...