Someone lives their life, they die. Some others take the written account of the dead one's life and use it for their own designs, so lets blame the dead one for living that life in the first place -- my goodness, it's so simple and of course such logic, thank you so much for explaining that!

Abra -- In the 1 year+ that I've been on this site, this is by far the truest thing I have read.

Although, in all fairness, I have to say that I have never met a Christian, in real life, as bigoted and delusionally self-righteous as some we have here!

if you only believe Jesus was just a dude with long hair a toga and earth shoes that lived back in the bibical days then you are right but it you believe the Jesus is the son of God senerio then Jesus have to shoulder the blame

Because the message got fu*k'd up by others, blame the messenger. Who isn't a child of God? Failure is also something that should be blamed on someone else rather than as a means to learn.

if you believe Jesus was just your average joe then he can't be held responsible but if you believe he is the son of god then you have to blame God if the message got fu_ked up

and fu'k'd up never teaches does it?

Also, blame is not required.

This is what many “believers” can't seem to wrap their minds around. To seriously consider that Jesus was just a man carries with it the fact that the gospels can no longer be seen as being divinely inspired. In other words, if Jesus was just a man they the gospels are probably full of exaggerations and embellishments that were made up after the fact. In other words, if Jesus was just a man it would be senseless to believe that the gospels accurately reflected his true words verbatim. On the contrary it would be much more likely that the stories grew as a legend and it was, in fact, the legend that was recorded, not the reality.

This is, in fact, what I personally believe concerning the stories of Jesus. I look at these stories from a very pragmatic historical perspective, keeping in mind also of all the other myths and legends that were popular in that time and region. For me, this perspective makes perfect sense and contains no paradoxes, only exaggerated myths.

On the other hand, if Jesus really was the incarnation of God and knew it. That creates a whole differnet ballgame.

First off, if he really was God then he would loathe sin and therefore he wouldn’t even be tempted by it in the least. So any talk about Jesus even resisting temptation is utterly absurd. God can’t even look upon sin much less be tempted by it!

Any claim that Jesus wasn’t really God flies in the face of the gospel’s claims that he said he was God. Either he knew he was God, or he didn’t. If he knew he was God then he didn’t do anything spectacular at all. He wouldn’t’ have been required to have blind faith like he’s asking of mortal men. In a very real sense, if Jesus was God he was basically cheating to pretend that he was living the ordeals of mortal men who do not possess this knowledge and ultimate wisdom.

Can any man be blamed for not having wisdom he was not innately bestowed with? Why would Jesus have to teach anyone anything? Shouldn’t they automatically know better? And if everyone automatically knew better than the world wouldn’t have been fu*ked up in the first place!!!

And of course, if Jesus didn’t know he was God,…. well,… then he was lying when he claimed to be God. It’s a lose/lose situation. Either Jesus was God and knew it or he didn’t know and was therefore lying. He can’t have his cake and eat it too. He either knew he was God or he didn’t.

To believe that Jesus was God carries with it an infinity of inconsistencies and oxymorons.

For example, if the wages of sin is death and Christ died for the sins of man, then why do men continue to die after the crucifixion?

Well, one way to look at this is to talk about spiritual death versus physical death. And this is often brought up to resolve this problem. But it doesn’t resolve it. If man’s sins had to be paid for with spiritual death, then Jesus didn’t die!!! He only died a physical death for 3 days but then was resurrected. So ultimately he didn’t die spiritually. He only died physically.

So that brings up the very real question. If physical death is the penalty for sins and Jesus paid for those sins via his physical death, then why do men continue to physically die after the crucifixion?

On the other hand, if the penalty for sins requires spiritual death, then how could Jesus have paid for the sins of man if he didn’t die spiritually?

It’s just an endless ocean of inconsistencies and contradictions if one tries to take the story to be real.

So finally the answer seems to be,…. “Don’t worry about the technical details,… JUST BELIEVE!”

Well, if you’re going to do that then what’s wrong with believing in Greek Mythology? If you don’t have any better reason to believe in Christian Mythology why choose it over anything else?

People often think that I’m out to bash Christianity. But in truth, I actually gave it every chance in the book. There comes a time when you just have to throw in the towel and realize when something can’t be made to work.

I’d like to see people move forward to something more meaningful.

The idea that God’s obsessed with human sin and salvation and that mankind is inherently sinful to begin with is a very negative view of humanity. I would love to see us move on to something more positive. Something that doesn’t require that everyone has to believe that some guy was nailed to a pole to save their soul. This is really a quite disgusting concept if you stop and think about it. Is this how the creator of our universe wants us to think of him? There must be more positive religions we can turn to.

In fact, I know there are.

Nice job ending the quibbling Abra!

it teaches you that Gods can fu_k up too

So, if it teaches you Gods can (I'll behave Mike) "mess" up too, what would the delusional meter register with that?

Sounds pretty delusional to me abra

Abra....people are stupid. Barbaric in nature. It has been shown time and time again throughout history. Jesus was not, the only man or woman that has been crucified by humankind. People will react violently in the face of the unknown. Look at black history. Many were treated and killed without thought of their humanity. Meaness and cruelty and homocidal maniacs have been here forever.

The genocide of the Jews, another human cruelty for the feeble mindedness of a few.
Kat

Actually, good point Kat. Crucifying was their death penalty at that time. For "Judge Roy Bean", among other periods of history and countries, it was hanging. Now it's electric chair and lethal injection.

Another point........look at the torture and death of that young gay boy, Matthew. Horrible....fear.. hatred...simple = torture and death.

It is history at it's finest.
Kat

I know, Kat Woman, I know where you're coming from. Do me a favor, please. Come with me over to
Spirit and Psyche - Connected? thread. I was just thinking about collective consciousness and individual consciousness and levels of vibrations when you did your Matthew post and this all ties in together and I'd appreciate your help figuring this out or at least trying to get a workable idea with it. Ya game?

Noah's Ark is a perfect example of how God screwed up, isn't that why he drown everyone...

He didn't technically drown everyone. I believe the way the story goes, Noah offered to let his neighbors and people out side his family come with them when they went into the ark. Only certain members of his family (one son, I believe stayed behind) and he and, yes funches the methane spewing critters, chilled in the ark during the flood. Sooo, since Noah offered and the people made up their own minds about whether to laugh in Noah's face and call him a lunatic or write another verse to the song about the Silly Unicorns playin behind some rocks that day and missing the boat while chillin' on the ark....blame goes to whom?

First point that is wrong....Is that Christ was sinless and when satan tried to tempt him......sorry no go...And Yes satan did try.


Second point is.....Yes of course Jesus knew he was the son of Man....But when God sent him to earth.....it was with the intension of Jesus living as any other man on earth....But his main purpose of being sent was to spread the news of his Father.

Third lets put this one in simple terms......Christ came to earth from Heaven where he sat at the right hand of his Father. God sent him to live as a man....and take the sin of all men onto himself. But then man continues to sin......no matter what they do....man and his freewill prevail......Now look at it another way......If man would of listen to Noah....then Christ would of never had to come and all the world would be sinless paradise....but we all know that is not the case.....Then you ask yourself why is that? Because when satan thought he was on the same level as God....and God banished him but not for good.....why because even still God is a loving God....So guess what? Yep satan is back...and every bad, evil, nasty thing on this planet is of him. And yes man will continue to die....and when Christ comes back all that were faithful and righteous will go with Christ......all that were not will be banned to the fiery pits of hell.....Now you again might ask.....Is that a loving God to do that......Well you did have a choice.

Fourth point is Yes Jesus did die physically......He left his body.....His spirit was never gone or died. Just his physical shell was gone.

And yes you can look at it as an ocean of inconsistencies and contradictions until you really study the bible. I felt this same way....and then went of a study quest....not just as a Christian but many many religions.

And until you truly understand you will never believe and if you don't believe you will never have faith. And once you do have faith I assure you everything that is.....is much clearer and a whole lot about the world makes much more sense.

And if you want to believe in Greek Mythology then so be it....But its a myth...and I have never heard the Bible being referred to as a myth.

You can just give as you say Christianity a chance....Take out the religion aspect of it out. Christians, Baptist, etc. Take it as a quest to see what this God is all about. Do it for you.......study with different people. I know for me I had misconceptions about alot of religions....so I checked it for myself. I studied with more then 12 different groups of religions. And then I read the Bible for 3 months non-stop.....I prayed and asked God to show me......and thats exactly what he did. And I am now a servant not of religion but of God and only God.....

And of course you can believe whatever you want......thats your freewill. But again I say to anyone don't knock what you clearly don't understand.

God didn't screw up man did.......and God warned and warned and Noah warned and warned and man still didn't listen..