sorry to inform you Spidercmb ...but yes God did take JOBs family out of the game....sorry someone didn't tell you and you have to find out on a dating site

That tremendous "sucking" sound you hear is the systematic deflation of things that make no sense... when compared to themself...

God said that Satan could do whatever he wanted, he didn't tell Satan what to do. Satan made his own choices. Free will is a great thing, because we can all decide what we want to do. Sometimes people with free will do terrible things, even kill the family of an innocent man.

Use your free will and read the Bible, so you can know what it says and not repeat the lies others have told you.

You haven't salvaged a thing here.

God knows what Satan is like. Telling him to do whatever he wants is no different than a Godfather of a mob telling his hit men to do whatever they want to someone. They know the hit men are going to kill them because this is what hit men like to do.

I understand the whole story of the parable of Job. I know what the author of the story was trying to convey. Unfortunately the way he wrote it he inadvertently made God the guilty party.

I don’t believe any of these stories actually happened. These are all parables told by wise men to make a point. The point that the author of Job was trying to make is that bad things can happen to good people and they shouldn’t blame this on God. Unfortunately, the way he wrote the story, he actually does make God responsible for the hit. I don’t think he realized that he did that.

sorry Spidercmb this denial of yours just shows how little you know about the bible ..heck even I know this story ..I can't believe I'm saying this but you need to go read the bible ..

Man, you can really twist the scriptures. The meaning is very plain, but you are only looking at part of it.

Here's the real meaning: God protects each of us out of the goodness of his own heart. If God decides to remove the protection in some way to test us, we have no right to complain. If God wasn't protecting us from the evil spiritual influences in the world, we would all be dead. So when something bad happens, we should accept it as God testing us and not complain. Job also shows that Satan has no redeeming qualities. He only tempts us, because God won't let him kill us. Job also reveals that our good deeds only help each other, that nothing we can do will ever help God. Job is a great book and at the end there are several things that God says, which prove His existance even in this day. For instance, God asks Job "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades, Or loose the cords of Orion?". The intersting thing about that verse is that only three binary stars are visible with the naked eye (remember they all appear to only be one star) and God mentioned two of them in that verse.

As far as I’m concerned, stories like Job don’t say anything at all about God.

What they reveal is that the biblical stories were indeed just parables made up by men. Men who made mistakes in how they told things, and didn’t think of all the possible consequences of how their writings might be seen from various perspectives.

I don’t blame God for the story of Job. It never happened!

That’s not to say that there was never a man who lived who was named Job who had all these terrible things happen to him. That may very well be true. The author of Job may very well have modeled this story after the life of a real man named Job. But the part about Satan going to God and asking permission to destroy Job’s life is the made up part. That part was made up to bring a religious “moral’ into the parable.

Unfortunate, the story of Job backfired. The author simply screwed up!!! A error of man!

The Bible has nothing to do with God. It is nothing more than a bunch of moral parables fabricated and written by men. No God req’d.

you're right ..you just can't believe anything in that Bible ..

I haven’t twisted a thing. The story clearly states that Satan went to God specifically asking permission to screw over Job. This does not fall in line with your idea of merely removing protection.

I will agree with you Spider this is how the story should have been written. But it wasn’t how it was written the author blew it!



I don’t see any proof of anything here. The author of Job was talking about the coming of spring when he referred to Pleiades, and the arrival of winter when he referred to Orion. He was making like God is asking job whether he can control the seasons.

Where you get the idea that this is a reference to the number of stars visible in the night sky is beyond me.

Read Job in Hebrew and one has a clearer picture of the power of the story.

Bottom line, in English we read 'God' at all points wheras in Hebrew God is separate from the 'angels' that are called 'God' in English.

The point being, that the word for 'God' in many cases referred to the 'guiding light' over people.

For some it is JHWH, and for the rest it is Satan.

The point was made that Job understood better than the rest that all keep their demons at bay, but that the LORD (JHWH) dispells the effect of the others.

Christ changed that and no longer do we have to "keep demons" at bay if we call on His (Jesus) name.

We may have to start from scratch every time we call on him, but we're no longer stuck in the mud keeping "demons at bay".


But , you all know that, right?

Ahhhh talking about missing the point as a whole. NOW I know why the question was originally asked. LOL. Is ok. I am learning something here. Really!

Regarding the Story of Job?

I want to post this, but fear it will be misunderstood. Still, some might get it, and that makes it worth it. If you choose to fight and argue about this subject, I ask you to read the verses I support things with. Thanks!

Consider that God could put Satan away any time He wants. When Christ returns, He binds him for a thousand years. God could do that any time. But, He doesn't why?

Consider another case more difficult to understand than that of Job. Notice that after the war in heaven, God thrust Satan to the earth. He now is the ruler here. He is worshiped as a god 2cor 4:4. He is the power behind the empires of this world Mat 4:4.

So, worse than the devil killing Job's family, God puts the newly created Adam and Even in the Garden, takes a walk, and lets the devil tempt them, knowing they will fall for the temptation. Since that time, billions have suffered. Is God wicked for this? Or is He simply teaching mankind a lesson which we will only understand later?

What is missed here is that God is using Satan for a purpose so great that few would comprehend it. Yes, God is responsible for allowing the devil to wipe out Job's family. Job, like Abraham, like the apostle Paul and so many of the rest of the heroes of faith were being brought to the point where they would give up everything to obey God. They would face what they feared most in life.

The reason for this is because God is not trying to save everyone now. He was not trying to save those in Noah's day. He was not trying to save the ancient Israelites. Their story was simply written for those at the end of the age to understand their circumstances and to trust God for deliverance I Cor 10:11.

God is building a leadership team that will be rulers in His Kingdom when Christ returns. They will be His Bride. They will be comprised of those who over came their human nature, the pulls of this world, and the influence of Satan the devil.

Today the training to become a world champion at some sort of sport requires complete dedication and rigorous training. So many professing Christians do not understand this. They think they just accept Jesus and float into heaven.

No, this is not the case. Instead, the positions of the resurrected saints will be higher than any king of the earth now. They will be like Christ, I john 3:2. And they will rule the nations of the earth.

Thus, their training is not some easy path. Paul said through much affliction we enter the Kingdom. For Job, it was his reputation, and his position that he cared about most. For Abraham, it was his son. For Paul it was His position as a leader among the Pharisees.

They all had to come to this point. They would obey God no matter what. God is not trying to bring everyone to this point right now. He is not trying to save everyone right now. If He were trying to do that, they would all be saved. In fact the people will all be saved when He returns and sets up His kingdom on earth.

God is only working with a few called out individuals in which it is said of them that they are a kind of first fruits, Jam 1:18. They are said to be only the first to trust Christ, Eph. 1:11-12 and those who are in the first resurrection Rev 20:1-6. Job knew he was destined for this resurrection.

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

God was directly working with Job to bring him to the point that he would give anything and everything to God if necessary.
God was not working with Job's friends or his family

Those who have died rejecting Christ, those in Nineveh, and even the queen of Sheba will all live again Mat 12:41-42. So will those in the family of Job, the Israelites that God has blinded for now, they will live again. They will have their chance, Rom 11:26. but God is only working with individuals He calls right now Icor 1:26; John 6:44,65. After Christ rules on earth for a thousand years, He will raise them and give them the chance they never had. Nothing is lost of them.

When Christ returns the faithful saints will be raised. Those not in this resurrection will stay in their graves for 1000 years. Then they, the rest of the dead will be raised to live again. Satan will also be released so that God can use him as He now works with this group of people.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

So, we see that Christ uses Satan in this life now. He puts him away for a thousand years when He comes. He rules on the earth during this time, and those who are in the first resurrection will rule with Him. Then after this, the rest of the dead are raised, and Satan is released again, so that these who were not converted, those who never had a chance, never even knew of Christ, and who are raised after the millennium will be able to overcome him like those who are called now.

So, Job's family are not lost. They were taken by Satan, but God used it to bring this vain man to his senses, He was brought to conversion through this experience like Abe,and Paul and the rest of those who God calls.

The final end of this? Job finally gets it:

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said, Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Job came to see the true God and understand his position in relation to Him. This was so important in the context of the role he will one day play with Jesus Christ in the millennium, that no physical cost is too high to bring him to this point.

To us, we think that physical life is so important. But, to God it is only important in as much as it leads us to understand and follow Him and eternal life. Job's wife and family will live again--God will bring them to the truth, but for now, He is working only with those who will be in the first harvest of souls, the first fruits rev 14:4.

What the people like Job, Abraham, Daniel, and the other heroes of faith are being called to is so transcendent, and such a vital part of God's plan, if you can possibly see this the physical does not matter by comparison.

The entire physical world is going to be replaced. Job's wife and family were going to die unsaved anyway. This way, their lives had great meaning and purpose, and they will live again and be called and saved in God's second harvest of souls. The child that only lived days will live a hundred years then Isa 66:23.

So, here is another perspective.

Let the attack begin,

Art

"To us, we think that physical life is so important. But, to God it is only important in as much as it leads us to understand and follow Him and eternal life."

"The entire physical world is going to be replaced. Job's wife and family were going to die unsaved anyway. So, here is another perspective."

Now THAT is a really had pill and quite disagreeable to me. God speaks to us in different ways, however, I have to say....he never even remotely mentioned the above in ANY connotation. I guess that is why one can say everything can be translated but not necessarily translated correctly. So...if the physical life is not important at all...why bother? LOL. Glad I am Dutch...

I certainly won’t attack your story Art. You may very well have it down pat. I still don’t believe that it came from any divine deity.

I just can’t see it. I can’t see the creator of this universe playing these kings of childish egotistical games. These are the kinds of games humans play. This whole story sounds exactly like what men would make up. It’s all about rulers and kingdoms.

I don’t believe that God wants to rule over any kingdom. That’s the ambition of men.

In all honesty Art, if this is indeed God's game, I want no parts of it. I didn’t ask to be in it, and I’m not interested in any rewards for having played in it.

If the God you describe is indeed the true creator of this universe my only request of that God is to please just un-create me. Let me cease to exist. I want no parts of this stupid frigging game!

I don’t care how great heaven might be. I’m not interested in playing these stupid childish games.

If this is what God is like then everyone please pray to this God to just take me out of the game, make it like as if I never was.

That’s my only request.

I seriously want no parts of this God that rules kingdoms.

To me, this is ancient medieval thinking. It’s all about kings and kingdoms and ruling over people.

As far as I’m concerned the story you’ve just described only convinces me all the more that this whole concoction is nothing more than an overly ambitious fairytale created in the minds of men.

The god I know is far beyond this petty kind of egotistical crap.

A God who’s master plan is to rule over kingdoms where everyone bows down and obediently worships and serves him is utterly ridiculous to me.

This is the dream of an egotistical madman. Not a God.

No wonder Hitler identified with the Bible.

This is a really petty picture of the creator of this universe if you ask me.

Just FYI Theists, this is a quote from a popular Atheist author, those "propositions" he was writing of is any religious belief.

Yeah, sure he was.

At one time I actually believed that you might have some credibility stashed away somewhere. But lately every time you’re called on something all you do is show a laughing face. Clearly you have no explanations.

I apolgize to you. I can see I misled you in this. Physical life is of enormous importance, but it is all temporary, and this universe is our training ground. That is all I meant. The millions who died in the flood, are not lost is my point. The billions who lived and died not knowing the truth are not wasted. They along with us have learned an indelible lesson. Our selfishness doesn't work.

My point is that they will live again. According to the Scriptures, they will have a chance in the future. There is enormous hope in this.

art

I'm sorry.

I didn't realize it hurt your feelings when I laughed at you.

I know you now man. You just randomly make up meanings for verses and get offended when anyone questions them. How does that verse apply to seasons?

It's specifically speaking of the stars being bound. And we find that another verse speaks directly about the issue of seasons "Can you lead forth a constellation in its season, And guide the Bear with her satellites?" So God was repeating himself? I'm sorry man, but your interpretation has no weight whatsoever.



Oh, I mean