Cosplay:

I'm not into playing dress up. My going out clothes are cleaner less worn out versions of my around the house/work clothes.

To women: How significant is the way a man dresses to you finding him attractive? Are you more turned on by dudes with "swag" and bravado, than by men who aren't showy and assertive?

Cons:

I'm not into social conventions. General propriety such as politeness, respectfulness, courtesy etc... sure. Standards that are rooted in a class judging structure... not so much.

To Women & Men: Regarding the dating process, do you subscribe to the concept of men being "gentlemen" and women being "ladies"?

Do you think being a gentleman is defined by gestures such as insisting on paying for dates, and the proverbial throwing your coat over the puddle before your lady companion steps in it?

Do you think being a lady is defined by modesty and grace?

Ren Faires:

I'm not into traditions for traditions sake. Standards and practices shouldn't have a mandatory expiration date. Reevaluating and adjusting or discarding them as a process of development is sensible. Acting them out in perpetuity just for traditions sake is foolish.

To Women & Men: Do you think that the traditional courtship process should still be considered the gold standard? Meaning the woman sends subtle signals of interest, the man makes his move, they hit it off, going forward the mans role is to take the lead, the woman's role is to guide and temper the mans lead.

Are we talking about Taming of the Shrew, or Much Ado about nothing of William Shakespeare, Thank god we over with 15th century courtship.

It really depends on the 2 people involved as to the courtship process. I don’t think there’s any standard rules anymore. I don’t follow rules for dating, I do what feels right with the person I’m with.

I like a confident man, doesn’t have to dress up but clean and nicely dressed. I believe respect and courtesy should be practiced by everyone, every day.

I don’t expect a man to pay all th time, it should be shared depending on each ones financial ability. I do like a man opening doors for me and such.

I am not a lady by your definition lol.

Yeah Daisy, it could be intriguing to visit the 15th century, but I wouldn't wanna live there. Thanks for you input.

I appreciate your input JBH. Your approach to dating seems quite sensible to me. Yes, being respectful and courteous are universally honorable practices.

The good news is that ladylike traits aren't limited to the hypothetical ones I asked about.

1. " How significant is the way a man dresses to you finding him attractive? Are you more turned on by dudes with "swag" and bravado.."

Nope.
I can't stand "swag and bravado"...I *hate* pretense/ fakeness..

Having been around music people all my adult life...I love casual dressed dudes...jeans...

2. "Do you think being a gentleman is defined by gestures such as insisting on paying for dates, and the proverbial throwing your coat over the puddle before your lady companion steps in it?

Do you think being a lady is defined by modesty and grace?"

No.
While I have never been "immodest"...I hate stereotypes and pretense..
Let people be who they are, and like what they like..
IF someone isn't who you are drawn to, or you don't like what they like...that's fine...there are other people who are more suited to you..don't argue the point/y and twist someone's arm to be/ act like *you* want..

A while back i had a guy on another site say that since I don't do my nails, do "do" my hair, don't wear makeup...don't do coy/ flirty...he said dating me would be like dating a dude..
Well, everyone is entitled for your opinion, I wonder why yuou felt the need to wrote me and say that...did you thunk I'd care what you thought so much I'd change??

3. "I'm not into traditions for traditions sake. Standards and practices shouldn't have a mandatory expiration date. Reevaluating and adjusting or discarding them as a process of development is sensible. Acting them out in perpetuity just for traditions sake is foolish.

To Women & Men: Do you think that the traditional courtship process should still be considered the gold standard? Meaning the woman sends subtle signals of interest, the man makes his move, they hit it off, going forward the mans role is to take the lead, the woman's role is to guide and temper the mans lead."

"Reevaluating and adjusting or discarding them as a process of development is sensible. Acting them out in perpetuity just for traditions sake is foolish."

YES.
Aside from acting decently, with manners...
Adhereing to traditional gender roles for tradions sake alone...nope.
Again..if that is what a particular guy or girl is into...that's fine...but you don't get to demand others change to suit you, or shame/ demean them because they *don't*..
Plenty of other people out there...find one who is more suited to you..

I've tried both...sitting back, making with the "subtle signals"...had no success..
And tried being the one who does the approaching...sometimes works...more often not..
Like someone else said...you have to know your audience..
Maybe the ones I tried the "subtle" thing with needed me to be more direct, and vice-versa..

(Don't need advice relating to incidents that happened some 30 years ago..I'm good, thanks...this is a reply to the question at hand...)

I'm grateful for your input, ILB. I'm with ya about disliking when people try appearing to be something other than they are to get attention. The swag and bravado persona strikes me as uninteresting and shallow.

What you said about letting people be who they are reminded me of an old Roger Miller song my grandpa used to sing, "It Takes All Kinds to Make a World". Trying to change someone to suit you is usually a recipe for disaster.

Gender roles being questioned and challenged is an important part of this phase of humanities development, in my opinion.

The social experts claim that 80% of what we are trying to communicate to others, doesn't come from our lips, but from our body language and our actions.


Conventions , though contrived and annoying at times , are powerful communication tools in conveying important messages that we long to communicate to a heart that we are pursuing.

Generous attention to grooming often conveys pride in oneself , and the message that their date is worthy of the efforts taken to present their BEST selves to each other .

Paying for her on the first date communicates a subtle message that she is taken care of by you , and that she is worthy of the money that you made a conscious choice to spend in her honor.

The general message BEHIND pulling out chairs or opening car doors, paying for a lady etc, will only be seen as a chore or an out dated gender positioning if the guy loses sight of the message intended, which is that he CHERISHES the date that HE SELECTED.

And the woman in turn should feel honored and appreciative of that sentiment, not demanding or bitchy. To me, being a lady is characterized by the ability to radiate warmth, caring, grace and yes... strength.

In other words, the rules of engagement regarding dating, ultimately boil down to what WORKS for individuals in achieving THEIR specific goals, whether other people approve of those strategies or not.


HOWEVER, be mindful of all the conventions you might be overlooking or neglecting which might ultimately be DIMINISHING your MESSAGE to the heart you wish to capture

PS: I find swag sexy when it is AUTHENTIC. Those who don't have it naturally could work on exploring and developing other parts of their total package that SHINE just as brightly

I have never been bitchy, demanding, or angry when someone opens the door, etc..for me..
It's nice when they do (strangers, I mean), but not expected..

I pay for my own stuff on a first date, because of bad experinces I have had..and if it is not going well..then I don't feel bad about ending it quickly..
If a guy has an issue with this..that's his problem, not mine....
He can pay for the *next* date..

You said:
"present their BEST selves to each other ."

Which is why so many interactions I (and other people, both men and women..I am in a group that discusses the perils of online dating) are just baffling to me..
Instead of being polite, decent, chatty/ conversational...the vast majority are rude, pushy, and when you dare to disagree with them..then it goes to a personal attack..
"yer a fat ugly b***h anyway..no wonder you are alone"..(said the guy who *just* messaged me how pretty/ sexy he thought I was.....LOL)

"Good luck living with your cats...you'll need it/ you'redestined to be alone..."
(I have one cat, and a dog...and I am alone becauise I am widowed, not because I am inadequate/ flawed in some way..)

One guy (on the "fishing" site), when I politely told him thanks, but I don't see we have anything in common...wrote me and said ""You'll never get the opportunity to have an orgasm with me..."
(seriously...I did a screen shot of that and saved it..it was just too funny..

I agree with you ILB,


I've actually seen more of the worst in humanity online than I've seen offline but I've come to look at it the way I've come to view the social scene in a seedy bar.


You will find the occasional worthwhile guy there , but you are likely to meet way more pervs, drunks and crazies lol

Mingle is different as it's also a social site where you make great friends and get to exercise your intellect , but the guys on other sites I've used... OMG.. There are no words...

The important thing is to stay positive .

Im a believer in the law of attraction.

We attract back to us the energy we feel on the inside and radiate on the outside :)

I'm always polite initially to these clowns...

I've had people say just block/ delete them if they aren't someone you are intetrested in..

As no one like to be ignored, so I always acknowledge them with a reply...even, as I said....if it is to says thanks, but I don't think we have anything in common..peace, and good luck on your quest.

To be polite and acknowledge them as a fellow human costs me nothing.

Too bad *they* can't act the same way.

For me , responding isn't always the best thing as some of them respond to the best wishes with questions of why they were rejected. AWKWARD


Sometimes its best not to reply or reply and then block if they try to respond. Your peace of mind matters more :)

Your input is much appreciated, Peggy. I agree, there's plenty of evidence that gives credence to the old adage "actions speak louder than words".

Perceptions about grooming, style, and presentation tend to be subjective. I get to decide what presenting my best authentic self looks like. And my date would get to decide if that look appeals to her.

I'm happy to pay for dates. I prefer to express my high regard for her value by writing her a poem, or composing a guitar piece for her. I'll show that I care by listening, empathizing, and offering my assistance if it's wanted or needed.

I'm definitely mindful of the effects of being unconventional.

As long as I'm human there will always be room for improvement. But I already have great qualities that shine bright and none of them are swag.

LOL, I thought you might have misspelled "Furries"

COSPLAY - I think...



CONS - I think...



And FURRIES - which I thought you were referring to...



While I think it might be fun to attend a ComicCon in Cosplay on a date, I'm not looking for a woman that has the Furry mental condition.

As I said earlier...

"the rules of engagement regarding dating, ultimately boil down to what WORKS for individuals in achieving THEIR specific goals,"

I'm sure you are crystal clear about what your goal is.
If your dating strategies thus far have been enabling you to achieve that goal , then everything else is irrelevant .




You are indeed a very gifted poet and musician John , and any woman would be touched by the loving expressions you mentioned , but the conventions I spoke about in my post were mainly referring to first or second date … that critical period when first impressions are EVERYTHING in potentially securing a second or third date . I imagine that you intend to extend those more intimate expressions you referred to after a clear signal is established that the lady is romantically interested in you. If so, then I consider that lady very lucky





Thankfully swag has never been compulsory in evoking attraction :)

And if your methods for DISPLAYING your shine, have been attracting the attention of the eyes and heart you seek , then once again, everything else is irrelevant :)