The "class" obviously doesn't need a lesson in seeking asylum as much as others may need classes that provide lessons in LAW..and we are a nation of laws..so either obey them ..or be deported..that's easy enough isn't it..class is over..

The question will then be defining what is 'reasonable forms' of persecution.

There is law regarding seeking asylum, the immigration site explains the definition of refugee, but not the definition of what is considered persecution.

Miriam Webster defines persecution as:

to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict
specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

but the immigration definition only includes ONE example of where women may be being forced to abort their children. Otherwise, the term persecution is up to a subjective interpretation.

It appears that the maestro of chess has added a major piece to the 4D chess board and his name is Matt Whitaker...This is going to get GOOD..popcorn at the ready..the SHOW is about to begin...



WWG1 WGA

When it comes to asylum, it has to be some form of political or systemic persecution, meaning that life, liberty, and personal well-being are at risk.

That well-being actually can be financial, but the refugee MUST be able to show that there is systematic discrimination happening based on things like race, religion, age, political affiliation, etc.

It is important to note that the persecution does not need to be state-sponsored. It can be from groups like ISIS or the Sandinistas or any other faction.

For instance, if drug lords and cartels are systematically claiming tribute from the locals in the form of rape or human slavery -- that's persecution which places someone and/or his or her family in considerable danger. If the situation is bad enough, locals might flee to seek asylum elsewhere.

There is a caravan of 1,000's of people heading this way. Seeking asylum.

Asylum... from what?.. their government?.. I don't think so. Drug gangs.. not a valid reason.. we also have them here. I read a article today where one of the reasons being given is domestic abuse. Domestic abuse is terrible, but is that a reason for asylum to the U.S.?...no it is not.

They, like the others who try to gain access to our country are coming because they feel life will be better for them, financially, medically, educational. That is not persecution.

Tell me you are running from Boko Haram. tell me you are fleeing Syria. Those people are persecuted. Those people have the right to apply

Leaving your country because it is poor and you don't like it is not a valid reason to invade ours.

What some people don't seem to understand it that this is just 1 caravan.. let them in and there will be 100.. bigger ones, right after it.

We can not continue to just " allow" people to breach our boarders or to apply for asylum under the false pretense of persecution without valid back up

Our vetting process should be long and intense in the fact finding procedures and back ground checks to ensure that the person allying is in fact the danger. Or that they are not in fact a danger to.... US

And to my earlier point. Have we safe guarded our children and our elderly?. Have we safe guarded them from the dangers that many of those coming here claim to be in.. have we? Do many of our children go to bed hungry?.. live in drug infested, gang infested areas? Not have adequate healthcare?

Don't you think we should take care of our own first before we take care of others? Don't you think it is a bit hypercritical to open your arms like Mother Theresa when in fact your own children and elderly suffer.

So again I ask, exactly what are these people in the caravan running from?. What is the threat to their life?

Those people are all individuals with their own individual reason. There is a PROCESS by which request for asylum is granted INDIVIDUALLY as it has been and should continue to be.

So, in other words.. you don't know.

Then don't be surprised when they are refused entry because of invalid reasons. Because I have yet to hear one story from the hoards of reporters following this caravan of people fleeing because of persecution

I dont know what? I started the thread with the FACTUAL information from the IMMIGRATION process. I have had to go through the immigration process for my husband. I know as much if not more than many who discuss immigration.


What I said is that we have now and have had prior to TRUMP as POTUS procedures for seeking asylum. What I said was that system has been fine up until TRUMP for POTUS, and all that has changed is the fear tactic being employed to make people feel there is some new pending threat all of a sudden.


What I said was of those individuals that do make it here, they have a process by which they can each INDIVIDUALLY apply for asylum and be reviewed. Some may have valid reason and some may not, its asinine to assume none will have reason or all will have reason.

But the process is there to handle those requests, JUST LIKE IT HAS BEEN in the past. and there is NO REASON I have to believe that it wont still work just as well as it always has.

Thousands of migrants from Central America are trudging north towards the US-Mexico border.

They say they are fleeing persecution, poverty and violence in their home countries of Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45951782


murder comparatively


US murder rate per 100,000 is 5.35
Honduras murder rate per 100,000 is 56.52
Guatemala murder rate per 100,000 27.26
El Salvador murder rate per 100,000 is 82.84


I believe, at the very least, the two countries with the HIGHEST murder rate, El Salvador and Honduras may have citizens with cause to fear from violence...

msharmony:

It isn't unusual for Trumpicans and Alt-Right members to read into one's comments (as well as news reports) what isn't there.

If I am not mistaken you can apply for asylum if you are in fear of persecution

This is the criteria:
You are unable or unwilling to return to your home country because you have been persecuted there in the past or have a well-founded fear that you will be persecuted if you go back.

The reason you have been (or will be) persecuted is connected to one of five things: your race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or your political opinion.
_______________________________________________________________

No because your country has a high murder rate or a high poverty rate or you can't find a job.

So again, expect a large turn around at the boarder.. very large. And rightfully so.

Stated by msharmony:

Thanks David.. on behalf of MS

again, a high murder rate and poverty is not in the asylum criteria it does not even belong in the thread.. does it...IT does not apply, it is not a factor in determining asylum, is it? So, throwing the murder rate out for 3 countries and the U.S. was for.. what reason?


And again. I ask.. persecution.. from who?.. their government? And AGAIN, there have been hoards of American reporters following this caravan. not one story of persecution was mentioned.

Have you heard of any persecution claims from these people, David?
________________________________________________________________
They say they are fleeing persecution, poverty and violence in their home countries of Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45951782


murder comparatively


US murder rate per 100,000 is 5.35
Honduras murder rate per 100,000 is 56.52
Guatemala murder rate per 100,000 27.26
El Salvador murder rate per 100,000 is 82.84

Unless one has interviewed every member of that caravan, one doesn't know the reason that each member is seeking asylum.

Keep in mind that the caravan exists because it is usually dangerous for one to travel alone through Central America and Mexico.

Have you heard stories of the countries of Honduras, Guatemala &
El Salvador persecuting their citizens because of race, religion or politics? I haven't seen that in the news, have you?

Since we are " keeping in mind"

keep in mind that didn't stop the following:

Estimates in 2015 put the number of unauthorized immigrants at 11 million, representing 3.4% of the total U.S. population
And of these 65% came from Latin America.... 7 million...no caravan needed.. was there.

And keep in mind 250,000 illegal aliens from Latin America are currently in our prisons.. not county jails.. prisons for committing felonies against American citizens. Murder, rape, car jacking, shooting, drug deals, gang banging.

One poster spoke of " having compassion".. tell it to the 250,000 victims of these crimes. See what they tell you.

Let's not change the subject.

If those seeking asylum enter the USA legally, then they will not have done anything wrong.

Whether or not they have legitimate reasons to seek asylum is for the proper government officials to determine.

actually, there is NO definition or explanation on the site what role violence plays in it, are people living in areas where gangs are targeting them for elimination if they do not submit to their authority? are they living in places that are of humanitarian concern(that is actually a term in the information as well)

unless one is trained on the interviewing process and criteria, one cannot really say what will or wont qualify for asylum. One can only say that those who want to seek it are allowed to. those who are approved will be approved, and those who arent will be turned away.


nothing really to argue about where that is concerned.

Exactly.

Speculation isn't proof of anything.

Im not sure where or when these numbers are from. however, researching the GAO (government accountability office) report on incarceration, this is what I found:

The number of criminal aliens in federal prisons in fiscal year 2010 was about 55,000, and the number of SCAAP criminal alien incarcerations in state prison systems and local jails was about 296,000 in fiscal year 2009 (the most recent data available), and the majority were from Mexico. The number of criminal aliens in federal prisons increased about 7 percent from about 51,000 in fiscal year 2005 while the number of SCAAP criminal alien incarcerations in state prison systems and local jails increased about 35 percent from about 220,000 in fiscal year 2003.

About 90 percent of the criminal aliens sentenced in federal
court in fiscal year 2009 (the most recently available data) were convicted of immigration and drug-related offenses.

https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf

keeping in mind that aliens means non citizen, Im not sure how we go to 250 grand in federal prisons, let alone for offenses with 'victims'.



IN ANY CASE, like DODO said, this was not about illegal immigrants, but about people trying to seek asylum. Im not sure where to find information about actual threat from people that have come as asylees, but it may be interesting to know the actual numbers and facts.

I consider it foolish to act as if one has a crystal ball through which one can determine the intentions and motivations of those in that caravan.