Here's what a tariff does: it makes the thing it's attached to, more expensive in the country applying the tariff.

It doesn't do anything else at all.

That's why they don't get used more than they do, and why the results when they are used, aren't always what people hope for.

If the reason why an American company is having it's products made overseas is because the American buyers can't afford them otherwise, putting a tariff on the overseas-made product won't cause it to be made here. Because the change in PRICE, doesn't cause a change in the CUSTOMER PURCHASING POWER.

Putting a tariff on raw materials doesn't always do what we might like, either. As with the finished product tariffs, a raw materials tariff causes the products made from those materials to cost more to sell here. If the market here won't tolerate a price rise, a tariff such as that will cause an end to local manufacture, rather than causing local raw materials to become more marketable.

let me tell you what else it does. If We want to sell whatever, let's say dairy products to canada and they put a 100% tariff on it that means we pay double the value of the dairy to have the right to sell in canada. So when we raise the tariff on any product that Canada wants to sell in our country , than the theory is they might lower the tariff on our dairy so they won't have to pay the higher tariff on that product they want to sell in our country. It's called negotiating . Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't . It seems to have worked with euro. union. I think there working on a deal where their may be no tariffs on some products. That would be a good deal for consumers. Don't you agree. At least that's how I understand tariffs work.

Excellent. You are elaborating on my point, though I don't think you realize it.

What you are talking about, is what people hope to ACCOMPLISH by using tariffs; in the case of Europe, by more or less harassing them into making changes in their own policies. Similarly, the hope behind raising tariffs on raw materials, can be in order to help home country raw material companies (miners and the like) make more money, and expand.

The thing is, the tariff itself, doesn't do any of that. That's the important point I'm trying to make. The tariff JUST adds cost to imports. If people here respond to the higher cost of imports by buying more expensive American made products instead, then Americans can benefit from that greater economic growth.

But you can't count on a simple result. In the case of the aluminum and steel tariffs, for example, one American manufacturing company has already gone out of business, because the only way to compete with the finished steel products being shipped here from elsewhere, was to use cheaper imported steel. There are no tariffs on the finished goods involved, just the raw materials, so the result of the tariffs in that case, was fewer manufacturing jobs in the US.

That's the thing to think about when tariffs are proposed: they are similar to a sledge hammer, in a way. They JUST pound the prices up. Just as a sledge hammer can only pound things (it has no claw on the other end to pull nails out), a tariff JUST increases costs. When JUST increasing costs is what you need to do, it's the right tool. But you can NOT count on tariffs to make it possible for Americans to buy MORE of anything, homegrown or not, because tariffs do NOT cause wages or other income to rise in the customer classes.

it sounds like you are making my point but in a very confusing explanation . The point of negotiations is to make a better deal for the the negotiator. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But you have to try for a better deal. Only a fool would keep paying ransom w/out trying to make it fair.

Nope. You've completely missed the point now.

What this thread is about, is the VERY basic way that Tariffs can be used to do things.

You (again) are off on a tangent, talking about what people hope to ACCOMPLISH by the use of tariffs and other related trade manipulations.

What I am talking about, is why some of those intentions will be helped by tariffs, and some will be hurt by them, because (again) tariffs RAISE PRICES on imported things.

Yes, the country you slapped tariffs on MIGHT decide to cave in and alter how they deal with your country, or they might not. The point is, the tariff doesn't cause them to do that.

It is certainly true that what Trump says he WANTS to have happen, is for China and others to change how they behave with the US in ways that will make things better for us. Whether or not that will happen, we'll have to wait to see.

I'm not taking sides for or against, I am talking about the MECHANISM OF TARIFFS AND IT'S LIMITATIONS.

Something to note, is that in general, the Republican Party has for a VERY long time, been OPPOSED to using tariffs. And the reasons why, are related directly to what I'm talking about: they are NOT a magic or simple fix for anything.

Here's a link to a Bloomberg article, about how companies and other countries are NOT reacting to the tariffs by shifting to using American sources for everything, because the price points wont work out for them if they do.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-10/in-times-of-trade-war-companies-get-creative-to-avoid-tariffs

This is part of why Republicans haven't favored tariffs, and why Democrats have tended to agree with them on that.

Again. Tariffs are a very crude tool. The GOAL of setting them up doesn't change that.

Trump has talked to other countries about having 0 tarriffs. This would be the best thing. It's real free trade. Our past leaders were definitely not business men. They got us a temporary advantage (cheap stuff) but long term pain (loss of jobs).

Tariffs are useful as a Club,but rarely as a permanent solution!

I think the OP is oversimplifying the issue. Whether or not that has created a false premise for discussion, I'm not sure. Sure, a tariff raises prices, but it's just a tool. Like any tool, it can be misused or even abused. Also, like any tool, it can be used to great beneficial effect.

During the most prosperous years of U.S. history, tariffs were used much more than they are now. That's one reason why so many Americans favor returning to them. But they also risk falling prey to blind nostalgia. The world has changed. The international economy is now a much more global economy than it was. And, back during our prosperous tariff years, the U.S. followed a much more isolationist approach to foreign policy. WW2 and the Cold War changed that.

In fact, reducing or eliminating tariffs became a tool for thwarting the spread of Communism, even as raising tariffs became a way to undermine Communist economies. One reason Nixon opened up to China was to generate political influence, not just because of Vietnam and North Korea but in hopes of driving a wedge between China and the Soviets. Based on results, I think an argument can be made for either side. On one hand, it did achieve a measure of political success in both China and the Soviets Union. On the other, it also destabilized our own economy.

And sure, a tariff can be used against specific imports, or a class of imports, or a specific country of origin. Such a piecemeal approach could never achieve the results many Americans desire. There would need to be a blanket tariff. That would spark a period of growing pains as the U.S. economy transitions. Because Americans are impatient and want instant results, it would be political suicide for anyone seeking re-election.

There's also the matter of natural resources. While we still have some, we've depleted many of them. We've also undergone so much expansion and development that even new sources may no longer be accessible.

But tariffs when used properly can lead to higher wages. That leads to increased purchasing power. Some of that will be offset by using higher prices, but not all. Tariffs are not the only influence on prices. Plus tariffs raise tax revenue. If the right import/export balance is struck, tariffs can put downward pressure on business, income, and investment taxes.

So, it's not as simple a topic as the OP would have us believe.

A tariff is a tax so lets say you buy something from China for $1.00 that the US put a 25% tariff on. China would now charge you $1.25 and send the $0.25 to the US government or they may raise the price a little more to deal other things. So you probably can't get the same product made in the US for $1.25 you may be able to get it from another country that isn't required to pay a tariff for a competitive price. So tariffs could put money in the government's pocket, it could also just change where products come from, or it could start a trade war where other country's react with their own tariffs, so any number of things could play out with these new tariffs. Most likely anyway it plays out will not be in the best interest of consumers.