how and when do you know you have to give it to someone?

When they don't want to be bothered, they are always busy when you call,text or email and don't return your messages right away!

this means the other person initiated and we just follow their lead

It's a process of figuring out what each person needs. Some people, like myself, like more alone time than others. Usually just asking is your best bet.

yes i do agree ... that would be the adult thing to do

#adulting

If they can't put on their big boy pants and actually tell you then don't bother worrying about it.

YOU just stop; let a whole lot of space get between you and them; until you find and adult that can communicate straight up with you.

IF this is a repeat scenario then YOU put YOUR Big Girl pants and figure out what ever it is that makes you so desperate to smother or at least run off a person who started out being interested in you. Or why your picker is broken.

What is tough is changing bad habits that maybe worked when you were a teen and talking constantly with BFF's. Men have jobs and stuff to do. And good men resent being stalked because some OTHER guy cheated or whatever. Eventually they will drop you like a rock or live down to your bad expectations an get better at making you think you know what he is doing.

Sounds harsh but sometimes being adult is.

I agree with this.

this was a month ago ? and now its about spaceships and the universe. funny how things evolve

Yeah, and that would put you in a weak position, you don't want that.
Start with what YOU need. In a healthy relationship you both got your own things to do in life so you're not waiting around all the time for him to get in touch. You are busy too. That's why it's so incredibly important to have your own passions in life and to be busy with those, so your world doesn't evolve around him or the relationship.

A lot can be worked out with common sense. If you've just been on the phone for an hour and 2 hours later you want to call him again about something, you can be quite certain it's too much. Unless there really is an issue.
Also, women can switch more easily from one thing to the next than men, for instance when we're bookkeeping, we can just switch to a conversation about a relationship. Men typically need time to leave the 'bookkeeping cave', walk to the 'relationship cave' before they can do such a thing.
So best thing to do with a guy is to ask him. "I'd like to talk to you, is it convenient?" Or "I feel like talking to you. Are you busy?"
If he hasn't got time, do not whinge, accept it. Often he will say, "I'm busy right now, but I'll be done in an hour/tonight/tomorrow. We can talk then?"

It's also logical that when you know he's out with mates you don't hassle him.
You can send him a message (text, WhatsApp) without too much worry AS LONG as it's not a needy message or one that requires immediate reply.
If it's a funny or flirty or inspiring message, there's little harm in that. Cos he won't have to stop what he's doing to reply, he can read it, smile, feel love for you, yet continue what he is doing and reply later, or not.
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thanks crystal ill be humming blank space for some time