I have stated this many other times in other threads in this forum and it is also stated in my profile. I'm a Christian Pagan Witch. Other people like me sometimes call themselves Christopagans, Christian Pagans, and/or Christian Witches. Others who blend Wicca and Christianity together call themselves Christian Wiccans. I call myself a Christian Pagan Witch.

I'm a Pagan who has chosen the God of the Holy Bible as my Higher Power. I worship God the Father, Mother Goddess (The Holy Spirit) and their son Jesus the Christ. There are many forms of the Goddess that Christian Pagan Witches, Christopagans, Christian Witches, and Christian Wiccans believe in, such as the Holy Spirit, blessed Virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene, Sophia and Shekhinah all of which can be found within “The Holy Bible,” “The Pistis Sophia,” “The Nag Hammadi Library” and “The Lost Books of the Bible.” I prefer to see the Goddess as the Holy Spirit. I focus mainly on the teachings of Jesus whereas modern day Christianity focus on the teachings of Paul, which I often refer to as Paulianity

I look to other religious and spiritual beliefs for spiritual guidance such as Satanism (LaVeyan Satanism NOT Luciferian Satanism… there is a difference), Buddhism, Native American Spirituality, and varying aspects of Paganism and Neopaganism. I take from these various beliefs and philosophies what is beneficial to me and leave what is not beneficial to me. I guess one could say that I'm a very eclectic Pagan.

I practice witchcraft. In spite of popular belief witchcraft is not a religion. Witchcraft is the practice of magick. One definition of magick is “the art and science of causing change to occur in conformity with will.” Another definition of magic is “magick is conscious evolution through directing energy.” Witchcraft can be coupled with any religion or no religion. An athiest can practice witchcraft. I choose to practice witchcraft with the aid of my chosen Higher Powers.

As for the 10 years I was a fanatical fundamentalist Christian... I was a devout member of the Church of God. I was one of those holy rollin', tongue talkin', pentecostals. I was 16 when I first gave my life to God. I was also 16 when I first got pregnant and married. It was God's love that got me through a lot of some very hard times... extreme poverty (such as using your own body heat to warm your own children and carrying drinking water from a nearby creek), severe abuse, and severe depression. My husband was a very abusive man. He abused me emotionally, physically and sexually. He would leave us for extended periods of time to party with his uncles. It was the church that told me to stay with this abusive man for in the Bible it says,

I Corinthians 7:12-17 "Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy. (But if the husband or wife who isn’t a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the Christian husband or wife is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you to live in peace.) Don’t you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don’t you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you? Each of you should continue to live in whatever situation the Lord has placed you, and remain as you were when God first called you. This is my rule for all the churches."

I believed what the church leaders told me because they showed me it was in the Bible. I never had any healthy role models to show me how a husband and wife were supposed to interact. I so very much wanted to believe what the church told me. I was desperately seeking and glimmer of hope I could get. I was stupid and niaeve! To just blindly believe what is in the Bible is indeed stupid! Sorry if that offends some of you but I speak from experience here.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, though, it was Father God, Mother Goddess (the Holy Spirit) and Jesus the Christ who got me through those seven years of hell called a marriage. The Holy Spirit touched me so very many times, rejuvinating my heart and spirit, so I could make it through another trial.

When my children's father left me for another woman I was devastated. I did turn away from all religion at that point and turned to a life of sex, drugs, and alcohol. I should have had my 3 children taken away from me at that point. I was a horrible mother. But my God and Goddess knew that I needed my children. They knew that they needed me because their father didn't want them.

I got remarried and found my way back to God and Goddess. However, that's when I began seaching for answers to questions that the church wasn't able to or refusing to answer. I found those answers in Paganism, Witchcraft, and Gnosticism just to start with. I kept my true beliefs in the Goddess a secret from my second husband and the church for a long while. Then my second marriage failed because my husband was an acoholic, a drug addict, and a cheater. I wasn't about to have a repeat of my first marriage so I took my children and left.

When I left my second husband the church I was attending at the time (a nondenominational church) actually sent several members of the church, including the pastor and his wife to me where I was staying. They were there to try and convince me to go back to my husband for the sake of the children who need a father figure in their lives. I told them to go to hell. That's when I vowed to never attend church again. That's when I vowed I would come out of the "broom closet" and proudly proclaim myself as not only a Christian but as a Pagan and a Witch. That's when I vowed I would seek my God and Goddess and Jesus on a solitary spiritual journey.

I never left the God and Goddess or Jesus who touched me for those 10 years I was a fanatical fundamentalist Christian. I left the Christians behind and their stupidity. And as I stated earlier, not all Christians are like this, but most are and the few who aren't are few and far between.

This is my testimony... this is my life.

I think a statement like this necessarily needs to be tempered by personal experience. That is to say that there could be more truth to it in some geographical regions than in others.

I have personally found that most Christians I’ve met in my life have been very level-headed and reasonable, and even accepting of other people’s beliefs and customs. Not to the point of believing in them or participating in them, but at least to the point of respecting them and not trying to convert everyone.

As I say, I’m sure that this is a regional thing. I have been to places in my life where “Christianity” (and I put that in quotes for good reason) was quite intense and even cult-like to the point of being scary!

I’m not a very well-traveled person. On the contrary I’ve stayed very local to where I was born almost my entire life. So most of my experience is based on a small area of the globe. But for the most part, the Christians I actually meet in my daily life have not been extremists in any sense of the term. Most are very open to a quite liberal interpretation of the Bible. In fact, most Christians I know don’t even have a problem with something like evolution. They are completely accepting that evolution is compatible with Christianity. I think this is mainly due to the fact that they genuinely don’t stop to think about it deeply or analyze it. They just accept that whatever is true must fit in with God’s plan. It’s like the ultimate faith trip. No need to delve into the details, that’s God’s job.

Seriously, most Christians I know basically take this stance which is nice because it doesn’t cause anyone any problems. I wish all Christians could be like the Christians I know.

I will confess that there are hardcore fundamentalists around too, but they are definitely the exception rather than the rule (at least in my area this is true). Even the milder Christians will shake there head with disbelief at the hardcore fundies.

So, LadyValkyrie, I think your preception of what 'most' Christians are like may possibly be affected by your geographical region. That is to say that it may be true where you live, but may not be true as a blanket statement.

Just my thoughts.

Lady,


Perhaps your spaghetti is edible after all.

Feel free to scrape the fuzzies off and pray before you eat it.....you know, that nothing harm you in seeking nourishment.

AMEN BROTHER LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE. DONT BE ASHAMED OR AFRAID ITD THE TRUTH. GOD SPOKE TO ME THE OTHER NIGHT AND I WAS LIKE GOD HOW CAN I BE LOVING LIKE JESUS AND STILL CONFRONT A DARK WORLD WITHOT OFFENDING THEM. HE TOLD ME THAT WHEN I FIRST STARTED TO READ THE BIBLE I DID NOT LIKE IT OR UNDERSTAND BUT THE WORD THATS LIVING AND ALL POWERFULL CUT THROUGH THE DARKNESS AND I WAS BEGOTTEN. SO KEEP SPEAKING THE WORD HE TOLD ME I MIGHT BE THE ONLY BIBLE SOMEONE EVER COMES ACROSS. I WAS RESPONDING TO CASEMU COMMENTS

Lady said, "I left the Christians behind and their stupidity. And as I stated earlier, not all Christians are like this, but most are and the few who aren't are few and far between. "

Maybe you haven't met the kind of people that attend the church I have gone to for the past three years. I, too, avoided church for a long time, because of thinking that the people who attended were hypocrits or judgemental. However, the people at my church don't judge or tell others how to live. We try to be a family of God like the Bible tells us we should.

When I was into Wiccan beliefs, I also tried to tell myself that I could be a Christian and a witch. I thought I could take the best of both "religions" and that would work.
But that bird don't fly!

What you end up with is a mixed up, pieced together, patchwork religion of your own making. I'm not being critical, as I did the same thing myself. Much of your story told above, could have been my own. Not all, but a good bit of it. I was first saved at age 11. However, I didn't understand about a real life changing relationship with God. I, too, became pregnant at 16. There were also a lot of hard times in my life, but whatever our life experiences, we all have the decision of a lifetime to make. Will we accept Jesus and his gift of eternal life, or will we reject him?

ladyv, i am very sorry you had to go through such hard times. but it has obviously made you a very strong and loving woman. you always thought of your children throughout your trials. im also sorry the way your churches treated you. they may not have been there for you but God was. i pray that your days will be blessed and you and your children will remain safe and happy.
hopefully not one the "stupid" ones ,
wendy

I never said what you quoted above.

Lady,

i merely moved forward my first post from yesterday and personalized towards you the metaphor for latent faith.

If the Holy Spirit is in fact inside you, He may be sleeping until you reawaken His attention.

Is that clearer?

I hoped you would have gotten the drift.

I sense that you are in the family but very upset at people.

Your focus remains best centered on the One that gives you the life you have, not on the people that would rob you of your joy.

If you can be robbed of your joy, don't you think you could be robbed of your goods?

His intention is not to leave you destitute of purpose, nor is it to leave you among wolves.

Why would you be so shocked to think that God answered your faith even in a corrupt congregation.?

Perhaps, escape was offered from the corrupt fellowship and you became too confused to recognize the help.

Perhaps a lot of things are going on in your heart that are best left between you and God.

Talk with him privately and wait expect an answer openly. Men and angels cannot corrupt that which is not available to covet.

Enough.

Peace, grace, mercy to you.

You say that the people at your church don't judge or tell others how to live. Yet in the very next paragraph you basically say that you can't mix Wicca and Christianity. Isn't that kind of like telling me that the spiritual path I've chosen (Christian Pagan Witch) can't possibly be done? It's ok if that's what you are saying. It's not like I've never had the word oxymoron thrown in my face before. Believe me I'm used to it.

Thank you Wendy. I wouldn't consider you one of the "stupid" ones. lol You appear far from it.

I've lived in southern WV, North Eastern OH, and now in Central PA. I've had the same results with the churches and the Christians in all three areas. In all my years of being on the internet I've tried becoming a member of certain Christian Communities online where Christians from all over the world gather to commune with one another (Yahoo Groups, MSN Groups, Google Groups, Christian Rock Bands/Singers Fan Sites such as Jennifer Knapp, O.C. Supertones, ect.) and I've recieved the same type of results more or less. It's not a regional thing. However, I do believe it can be more concentrated in certain regions, like in the Bible belt of the US.

I haven't gone physically out into the Pagan Community as of yet. But from what I can see from Pagan online Communities (Yahoo Groups, MSN Groups, Google Groups, ect) I can see that even the Pagan and Wiccan community have their fanatical fundamentalists who love to throw around the word oxymoron when confronted with someone like me. For the most part the Pagan and Wiccan community is accepting of all but there are a select few who get up in arms when anything that has to do with Christianity is mentioned. These are the same ones who scream to the world that everyone must be openminded and accepting of their religious beliefs but as soon as someone like me enters the room they bombard me with the word oxymoron and start quoting Biblical scriptures that speak against witchcraft. *rollseyes* Such Pagans and Wiccans make me want to puke. Then there are the fanatical fundamentalist Wiccans who believe there is only one true Wicca and that's Gardnerian Wicca and all others are just watered down versions.

So you see, that's why I really like my solitary spiritual lifestyle. There are times when Pagans and Wiccans can be just as bad as Christians.

When will we as humans ever get to the place where we will just accept that everyone is going to believe in different things and that no one has the right to try and persuade them otherwise?

LMFAO! Save your faith based therapy. I already have a therapist and I've got to say, he does a better job than you. However, thanks for the laugh. I've been sick today, so I did needed a little cheering up.

=\
I'm sorry you've had such a hard life.
I haven't exactly had an easy one myself.
But you need to understand that what you're suggesting - a life of pagan practices right next to Witchcraft, all on the basis of worshipping a Christian God simply goes against the Bible - The Inspired Word of God.
Something that contradicts your entire belief system.
If you worship the God of the Universe, then you would know his feeling on Sorcery.


Just as you felt the need to list a slew of verses without proper support, I shall do the same, but I'll do what I can to explain them.



1 Samuel 15:23 (NAS) "For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry..."

Samuel was a Prophet. I'm sure that you know that. He was the man that anointed David as the King of Israel, and the very same who faced down Saul in an after death experience.
To clarify this passage, two things are mentioned.
Rebellion
and Insubordination. Both one in the same, basically.
Now, the definition of Rebellion, according to this verse, is Divination.
Something that, from my oh so minuscule grasp of witchcraft, is a prime component of. Iniquity, as well as idolatry, are self explanatory, but I want to just clarify this.
I've read in a few of your posts that you worship God the Father, and Mother Goddess. Now that is the first red flag I have to throw out there.

God is God. Not Father God, husband of Mother Goddess. God does not have an equal - he, along with the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ, are one in the same. It's impossible to fully understand, but there is certainly no aspect of a Mother Goddess.

# Witchcraft: Wanting to be a spiritual "mover and shaker" without submitting to God. Witchcraft is rebellion coupled with a desire to "stay in the game", to be a spiritual player.

^That's a quote that I found.
Fitting?
:\


Deuteronomy 18:14 (NAS) "For those nations, which you will dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so."

Self explanatory.


Isaiah 57:1-5 (NIV) "The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death. But you--come here, you sons of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes! Whom are you mocking? At whom do you sneer and stick out your tongue? Are you not a brood of rebels, the offspring of liars? You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree..."

Isaiah 57:7-8 (NIV) "You have made your bed on a high and lofty hill; there you went up to offer your sacrifices. Behind your doors and your doorposts you have put your pagan symbols. Forsaking me, you uncovered your bed, you climbed into it and opened it wide; you made a pact with those whose beds you love, and you looked on their nakedness."

Isaiah 57:10-12 (NIV) "You were wearied by all your ways, but you would not say, 'It is hopeless.' You found renewal of your strength, and so you did not faint. Whom have you so dreaded and feared that you have been false to me, and have neither remembered me nor pondered this in your hearts? Is it not because I have long been silent that you do not fear me? I will expose your righteousness and your works, and they will not benefit you."

Another self explanatory thing.
Basically, To call yourself even a hint of Pagan, while referencing the Christian God and supposedly Worshipping him - you're contradicting yourself.
And it's utterly frightening.



Acts 19:19 (Jer) Some believers, too, came forward to admit in detail how they had used spells and a number of them who had practiced magic collected their books and made a bonfire of them in public. The value of these was calculated to be fifty thousand silver pieces.

You supposedly put your faith in the Christian God, the God of the Universe, and the God of my life.
If that's true, take after what's already been said in his Word.
I'm begging you to consider what you may have to do for the salvation of your soul. Jesus Christ should be the only being in the Heavens above that you worship. Not witchcraft, Not idols, Not false gods. Not pantheons..But God. God in the Trinity, Father Son and Holy Spirit. That's all.

Hosea 14:9 (NIV) Who is wise? He will realize these things. Who is discerning? He will understand them. The ways of the Lord are right; the righteous walk in them, but the rebellious stumble in them.

Have a good night.

In Exodus 22:18 the Hebrew word used to describe the that should be killed is "m'khashepah" which means a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others such as causing their death or loss of property. When this verse was translated and the word "m'khashepah" was translated to "witch" I feel is an extremely inaccurate translation. Not every witch practices their craft to harm others. For that matter not every witch is a woman. There have been plenty of male witches throughout history. And no "warlock" does not mean a male witch, it means "an oathbreacker."

In Deuteronomy 18:10-11 the following are the original hebrew words used to describe those who are condemned...

yid'oni: persons who make contact with spirits who are not of God.

sho'el 'ov: making forbidden contact with the dead

qosem q'samim: predicting the future by using lots or a similar system.

m'onen: predicting the future by interpreting signs in nature.

m'nachesh an enchanter, perhaps a snake charmer, because "nachash" means snake.

chover chavar: use of knot-tying to perform magic.

m'khaseph: an evil sorcerer (as in Exodus 22:18); a person using spoken spells to harm others.

doresh 'el hametim: a person who makes contact with the dead - probably by another method than sho'el 'ov.

It is important to point out that the descriptions of the type of people above do not describe every Pagan, Wiccan, or Witch that has every lived. Such practices as described above are not requirements to be a Pagan, Wiccan, or Witch. Personally I only participate in 2 of them... m'onen & qosem q'samim... but I don't think God is going to send me to hell... if there is a hell... for it.

In Galatians 5:19-20 & Revelations 21:8 the key word here is the Greek word "pharmakia" from which the English words "pharmacy," "pharmaceuticals," and "pharmacology" are derived. Interpreted literally, it refers to "the practice of preparing poisonous potions to harm or kill others." So it's safe to say, that this scripture doesn't speak of just ordinary "witchcraft" but rather something more specific, "the practice of preparing poisonous potions to harm or kill others." And as I stated earlier not every Witch practices their craft to harm others. In fact most have strict personal codes of ethics.

The use of Magick can be found within a lot of denominations within Christianity. Take for instance pentecostal denominations such as The Church of God, The Assemblies of God, The Church of Jesus Christ, among many others. Such denominations believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as spoken of in Acts chapter 2. They believe that when you are Baptized with the Holy Spirit you will become under the influence of the Holy Spirit and speak in an unknown heavenly language, dance under the influence of the Holy Spirit in worship to God, sometimes even have fits of "holy laughter" which is the joy of the Lord coming upon you refreshing you, and sometimes the Holy Spirit will bless you to give you the ability to interpret the "tongues" that are being spoken within the church to benefit the entire Body of Christ. To me this sounds a lot like becoming possessed by an unknown entity. Such possessions occur regularly in religions like Vodou (Voodoo) and Santeria, which many fanatical fundamentalist Christians consider to be evil and "of the devil." Pentecostals also believe in the practice of "laying on of hands" for the healing of physical ailments and the betterment of negative circumstances. To me this is a lot like the practice of Reiki. Pentecostals also used annointing oil (olive oil) before certain prayers. Many Pagans, Wiccans and Witches, use many annointing oils (essential oils, olive oils, ect) before and during prayers and spells. Catholicism is full of ritualistic symbolic magick... incense, oils, drinking from a chalice, eating of bread, prayers in the form of repeatative chants, ect. ... all of which are used by many Pagans, Wiccans, and Witches. Magick is Magick... it is within Christianity as well as Paganism, Wicca, and Witchcraft. The only difference is you will never really find a Christian who will admit that what they practice is Magick. The word Magick is so very taboo within Christianity.

By the way Casemu... you are not the first, and I'm sure you won't be the last to try and proselytize me via the internet. It won't work. I used to be like you. I never want to be like you ever again.

then it would be clear to you and all observing this discussion, that you have received some concurrent comfort and direction in a uniquely coherent and timely manner that points to supernatural oversight of our posts with little or no time to fashion a human conspiracy aimed at silencing you but rather pleading with you in unison to reconsider the error of your ways.

Your insistence on maintaining your present state of being is entirely your call.

Let it be understood that you wish to remain isolated in your declarations as a double minded and unstable christian and that it has been voiced that that stance is quite disengenuous and that you have acknowledged such in your own defence as being one that chooses to be conveniently selective in the presentation of yourself to this community as the one depicting a double minded and iniquitous position concerning your sincerity.

That is your choice and I respect it with all dignity.

Represent Christianity as you wish. That too is your choice.

LadyValkyrie,

I understand much better now what you are saying about the intolerance of Christians. I wasn’t thinking in terms of actually trying to worship alongside them. I simply don’t attend Christian churches anymore. I’ve have completely rejected Christianity as a religion. As far as I’m concerned it’s nothing more than ancient folklore. So I don’t experience any problems trying to actually worship within a Christian church. I just avoid them.

I can indeed imagine that most Christians would reject the idea of someone coming to their church and claiming to be anything other than a ‘pure Christian’. Most would probably view the label “Christian Pagan Witch” as an oxymoron at best, and possibly even see it as a threat to their belief system at worst.

Most Christians think of God as their daddy and any suggestion that there’s anything more to it than that just isn’t going to fly.

I was actually thinking more about how Christians in the community treat non-Christians in general.

Yes they are extremely bigoted with respect to religion once inside the church. I won’t go in a Christian church anymore. I consider them to be spiritually unhealthy places. I avoid them like the plague. As far as I’m concerned it’s idol worship.

Then I guess you and I are on the same page then.

ok... sure... whatever...

i propose a "mass conversion" wherein all jsh new members
vow to convert at once to all other religions in the world
when they sign up - a convenient check box and initials will
do the trick. those who are already here will get a email
notifying them that they will be asked to check the all religions
box at their next login.

then we will all be members of all the religions of the
world and then how could we argue since we would all hold
the same religious beliefs!!