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| Topic: Is love A Feeling? A Daily choice ? Ongoing acts of service? | |
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Love is a feeling....but that feeling is truly love when you want to be with that one person who makes your day....well your whole life better. Of course you will have times where you don't want to be in the same room with them because of something that happened. I feel that is normal. But you work it out and you move forward.
However where love is a"joyful labor" is when you put in some effort to show how special he/she is. You do simple things like leaving a love not for that person, or for making them a hot bath, or making a sandwich (I know guys joke about this but it really is true...you make a guy a sandwich he didn't ask for and trust me...he will remember it). I have a friend who has been working a lot and he hasn't spent much time with his wife. Well, she isn't happy about it and right now they have been arguing. I told him that when he gets some time off to take her out on a date....just a date for the two of them...where they can enjoy one another. Sometimes acting like you are going out for the first time will make you both feel good and loved. It isn't the fact that they aren't in love. It is the fact that neither of them feel like they are right now. So love is really all the above, but I would like to also say that love should never feel like it is forced. It should never be about doing something because "well, I need to show her that I love her so I better do such and such". |
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It's funny you bring this topic up myself and a few friends were talking about this very thing over the weekend.... I start off each relationship making it perfectly clear that we are to people first most.. two individuals.. Not one another's property.. We treat each other with respect and consideration... never talk to each other as though we are no longer individual people... couples tend to develop language... that does not revolve around each person being a individual with separate feelings and needing respect.... . That's one of my top requirements to a happy relationship... Trying not to go to bed angry does not always work.... but as long as you both know the other person isn't going to smother you in your sleep with a pillow...lol... then you just work on it.. the issue over the next few days.. . Saying good morning and goodnight and putting a kiss in there is always a good idea.... Being considerate to each other opening her door doing things that need doing without being asked... Stepping up and taking some of the load off her shoulders try not to put any more load on her shoulders than necessary... Always be giving to each other in the bedroom... do not become selfish... Yes of course the quick quickie in the morning is great... But sometimes you need to give her pleasure.. and try to build up to it during the day with a little romance.. Don't just grab her and bend her over the kitchen sink while she's doing the dishes..hmmmm... although that can be pretty hot sometimes..mmmhmm.. Tell them you love them even if you're not feeling it sometimes... but a little I love you now and then goes a long ways... I always try to appreciate the little things as long as I feel they are putting effort into it..... If your cooking dinner in the kitchen and you have your phone glued to your ear.. and then serve me some kind of half cooked half cold dinner and expect me to be thrilled about it.. Ummm.. probably not going to happen.. and that going down on you later tonight probably is not going to happen either..lol.wink..... oh great now I have to worry if she's going to smother me with my pillow while I sleep..lmao..wink So Im gathering that love to you is about ongoing acts/gestures of service and respect for the person's individuality? Am I understanding you correctly? And how do you know after all the ups and down of a relationship if love can still be salvaged or if it has ended? And then you have to dig deep and decide if you can change that about yourself.... Same thing goes if it's a them-issue... Can they recognize that issue and are they willing to work on solving it or. Changing what it is that drives you crazy...lol.... If you're both willing to do this then yes love can be salvaged... but you have to let go of the past you cannot hang on to it and keep bringing it back into the ship..no |
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It's funny you bring this topic up myself and a few friends were talking about this very thing over the weekend.... I start off each relationship making it perfectly clear that we are to people first most.. two individuals.. Not one another's property.. We treat each other with respect and consideration... never talk to each other as though we are no longer individual people... couples tend to develop language... that does not revolve around each person being a individual with separate feelings and needing respect.... . That's one of my top requirements to a happy relationship... Trying not to go to bed angry does not always work.... but as long as you both know the other person isn't going to smother you in your sleep with a pillow...lol... then you just work on it.. the issue over the next few days.. . Saying good morning and goodnight and putting a kiss in there is always a good idea.... Being considerate to each other opening her door doing things that need doing without being asked... Stepping up and taking some of the load off her shoulders try not to put any more load on her shoulders than necessary... Always be giving to each other in the bedroom... do not become selfish... Yes of course the quick quickie in the morning is great... But sometimes you need to give her pleasure.. and try to build up to it during the day with a little romance.. Don't just grab her and bend her over the kitchen sink while she's doing the dishes..hmmmm... although that can be pretty hot sometimes..mmmhmm.. Tell them you love them even if you're not feeling it sometimes... but a little I love you now and then goes a long ways... I always try to appreciate the little things as long as I feel they are putting effort into it..... If your cooking dinner in the kitchen and you have your phone glued to your ear.. and then serve me some kind of half cooked half cold dinner and expect me to be thrilled about it.. Ummm.. probably not going to happen.. and that going down on you later tonight probably is not going to happen either..lol.wink..... oh great now I have to worry if she's going to smother me with my pillow while I sleep..lmao..wink So Im gathering that love to you is about ongoing acts/gestures of service and respect for the person's individuality? Am I understanding you correctly? And how do you know after all the ups and down of a relationship if love can still be salvaged or if it has ended? And then you have to dig deep and decide if you can change that about yourself.... Same thing goes if it's a them-issue... Can they recognize that issue and are they willing to work on solving it or. Changing what it is that drives you crazy...lol.... If you're both willing to do this then yes love can be salvaged... but you have to let go of the past you cannot hang on to it and keep bringing it back into the ship..no You dished out some good stuff here Doc ! So you are saying that 1 The feelings you get during a lengthy time apart can confirm if the feelings are still there or not .I know that you are not suggesting this , but I wonder if some ouples do need an agreed amount of time apart to get some distance and sort out how you feel. Sometimes in the midst of feuding especially if its been going on for a year or more , you lose perspective on whats important. But I know its risky. I know a couple that tried the agreed separation , and during that time , the woman realised how much she she loved her partner, but the man felt liberated and happier! But maybe getting atthe truth is important, even if the truth isnt in one person's favor. I know you werent suggesting this in anyway Doc but it made me think 2 You suggested mutual self reflection to determine the mutual changes/compromisethat need to be made 3. Then there is the willingness , ability to and commitment to making those changes 4. Ability to let go of the past and move forward . That reminds me of what Tom4youhere said, That has to do with your ability to remember the good and to add your point to focus on where you want to go instead of focusing on were you are or were. Well said Doc! |
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love is really all the above, but I would like to also say that love should never feel like it is forced. It should never be about doing something because "well, I need to show her that I love her so I better do such and such".
I agree  love should feel natural and free not an obligation and neither controlling
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it's all of the above I mean I hope you feel the butterflies in stomach in the beginning but it is commitment over time I have a friend who has been in a relationship for 6 years . They fight alot and he has admitted that he seldom feels the butterfly feelings or fireworks anymore , but he told me that he is making a choice to stick with her for as long as they can both make it work. This couple isnt even married or engaged, are not living together, do not have kids . I know some people will call that an unhealthy relationship because neither of them are excited about the relationship but they are both committed to do their part to make things work. That commitment man! I admire the hell out of that! I totally relate to what you said tmom. Everyone wants the butterflies but without that mutual commitment, the butterflies might as well be an arbitrary breeze |
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You can't change the past, not even a moment ago.
Look at each other and see each other as they are right now. Do you feel love for one another right now? If you do, it is love...Its that simple. If you don't, is it because of the past? Think of it as ticks of the clock. Tick, Tick, Tick... If there are more ticks of love than not love you still love each other. If there are more ticks of not love than love you may not love one another. We hold onto love for many personal reasons. Those holdings can pull us thru those ticks of not love as long as there are ticks of love still happening. Do you say I love when you DO this or do you say I loved when you DID that. Loving someone for their past is sometimes enough to satisfy dedication and commitment to the other. We hang onto those moments of in love so they carry us thru the moments of not in love. If we are in love with the memory of who they once were to us, then we are not actually in love with them, we are in love with the memory of them. Conflict comes when the moment to moment reality of them is not the loved memory of them. When memory becomes the defining moment of love, it changes us. The more we experience it the deeper the changes. The memory of love can sustain us thru the empty moments for a time. Eventually, the loss of moment love will catch up and the feelings of love dissipate. How long it takes depends on how strongly you are in love with the memory of them. Love can be rekindled if the moment to moment love is felt once more. That is something that must be done in person. The memory of love can give you a chance to see if the moment to moment love is there. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are looking to see if each moment is a moment of love for them or not. If there are more moment of love then you accept the other as one that you love. If there are more moments of not love you feel nothing and the relationship does not rekindle. One thing that is difficult is that all people change moment by moment. Over time the things they did that you loved may not be things that now make you feel love. So repeating the past is not a guarantee to rekindle love. A lot of people say "Its the little things that make me love you". It really is. Not the simplicity, the little moments. Because the 'now' is little moments. Little chunks of reality that get strewn together to make a memory. Little pieces of feelings that occur within us that we adore or repulse. Do we love that person as they are right now with you or do we love the memory of them as they were at one time with you? Are you in love with that person or your memory of love? |
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Ummm... the above-mentioned I believe it's called building a relationship foundation.. it is emotions and the memories that you draw from.. good or bad throughout your relationship.. Hopefully you build the foundation built on more good than bad... But however some people just tend to remember the bad... so easily do they let go of the good..yup the idea of building a foundation of good foundation memories Doc If you plan to be together for 20 or more years, alot of highs and lows can transpire over that period of time.... and a lot of resentment. What if we all intentionally worked towards building as strong a foundation as we could when the feelings are still mutually strong so that when the storms come as they eventually do, you have enough good memories to keep you anchored until the storm dissipates and you can both see your way better and rebuild where needed. Easier said thsn done , huh? :) As for focusing on the bad that your mate does as opposed to the good , I think most couples are guilty of that sadly. We often are convinced that OUR overall contributions to our relationships are much bigger than our partners , and on the flipside, we are convinced that the pain and stress we inflict upon our mates is way smaller than the pain and stress they imflict on US lol.... But if we were to be truly honest with ourselves and sensitive to our partners needs , we would realise that WE are often causing them as much stress as they are causing us , and THEY are contributing as much as we are contributing but its in DIFFERENT areas that we possibly dont ascribe much value to. I have a friend whose wife over extends herself to make the most elaborate meals for him, but he tells me he would give those meals up in a heart beat if she would give him what he craves most, which is some alone time once a week. Im not saying my friend is right for underplaying the value of his wife's cooking but Im saying that we are often guilty of dismissing our mate's contributions if its something WE dont view as important. The resulting scenaro is usually two people nursing their own wounds that the other person inflicted on them AND both people boasting about all the wonderful contributions they are making to the relationship while trivialising or downright insulting the contribution made by the other person. Its easy to see how that lack of appreciation and insensitivity to the pain inflicted by each othrt on both sides ,can cause you to focus on your mate's shortcomings instead if their strengths or focus on the bad times instead of the good. I also think that if you were traumatised by a particular shortcoming of a previous mate, your tolerance level of that flaw is 100 times lower for that flaw in your next relationship. So when the new mate commits that offense ONCE , their mate is sometimes ready to quit because they arent feeling the stress merely from the one time YOU committed the induscretion. They are feeling the stress of the 100 times that their previous parter committed that same indiscretion. Sounds unfair? It totally is. But its a common problem couples face nevertheless that preventd them from focusing on the good in their mate and in their relationship . |
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I start off each relationship making it perfectly clear that we are to people first most.. two individuals.. Not one another's property.. We treat each other with respect and consideration... never talk to each other as though we are no longer individual people... couples tend to develop language... that does not revolve around each person being a individual with separate feelings and needing respect.... This is the number one important thing to me. Glad, I am not the only one that thinks a couple doesn't need to be joined at the hip or lose their individuality. Too many people in relationships do indeed try to own a person. I find that an instant turnoff. |
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Edited by
peggy122
on
Tue 03/21/17 01:04 PM
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I've found that love is similar to faith. Especially in the sense that as soon as you try to qualify it, quantify it, or worst of all, contractualize it, it's gone. or at least you prove that what you had, was never actually love to begin with. Mistakes lots of people make include: * thinking that it's a magic force which will either cause them to behave themselves well no matter what, or excuse them from responsibility for whatever self-indulgences they choose to invest in. * expecting the fact that they'v declared it, will engage some sort of universal rule system on their side, so that they can now control the life and choices of the person they "love." * behave as though it's a form of cash currency, that they can give, barter, withhold, or otherwise use as a tool or a weapon. * think of it as a kind of insurance policy, such that after they have some, they can relax and ignore safety, sensitivity, preparation for the future, etc. * deciding that it's something that can be earned or created through work, good deeds, exercise, expenditure of money, and so on. Myself, I've sort of given up on working on or for "love," because it's so confused. Instead, I look at who in the world is living a life that I want to be a part of, and to protect, and to help, and to commit my own safety and best interests to supporting. Like the old marriage vows, for the most part. If someone wants to call the "wanting to go along for the lifetime ride" 'love,' that's okay by me. The standards you adopt for the type of mate you want AND for the way you demand to be treated, is actually a barometer of sorts that we all create Without even realising it, and sometimes without even vocalising it, we are measuring people against that standard/barometer and qualifying them or disqualifying them as a viable or non viable romantic prospect in our mind. It sounds TERRIBLE and clinical to be phrasing the romantic search in that way , but its fundamentally something we all do. If you dont see that as the act of measuring or qualifying in some way , then what would YOU call it? How do you even determine if your relationship is satisfying to you or not? Even if you say , you know that based on your feelings, your feelings are generally reacting to whether your mate or your relationship is meeting the standards expectations you have in your head. And ideally, you might even create a standard for YOURSELF in terms of how YOU choose to treat your mate. Either way, how does anyone get away from setting standards and measuring themselves or their mates against it? How is that not quantifying or qualifying in some way? And as for the contract issue, call it anything you like , but if you require a certain quality of behaviour or treatment of your partner and they expect the same of you and you are both prepared to check out physically or mentally if that standard is not met, then that is a contract in my opinion. Some contracts are.documented on paper and some are engraved only in our minds but the underlying theme is mutual expectation/requirement /standards , and imposed consequences in the event these standards arent met. On a related note , even if you wanna simplify the romantic process or the dynamic of love to "finding someone living a life that (you ) want to be a part of, and ...(want to) commit (your)own safety and best interests to supporting", bet your bottom dollar that you are still gonna be adopting a spoken or non spoken set of standards/requirements/expectations that you will be measuring that prospective mate against, or even yourself against in terms of how you choose to treat her. And more likely than not , you may also choose to check out mentally or physically if you are constantly failing to meet her requirements or if she is constantly failing to meet yours . Can love even THRIVE , independently of standards for your treatment of your mate , and their treatment of you? If it can, then please tell me how. |
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Edited by
peggy122
on
Tue 03/21/17 06:15 PM
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I think you can have all the love in the world between 2 people, and still lose it if their level of commitment is not the same. But if you have true commitment, then love can fill in all the cracks, ebb and flow around a relationship, to keep it sturdy and growing. So true soufie :) Mutual commitment impacts almost everything in a relationship including the communication, the feelings, and the actions. Your post is beautiful, eloquent and profound , and one day, I shall publish it without your permission, and make OBSCENE amounts of money  
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Many people who have only been in a relationship for a year or two feel that the fireworks and romance they start off with will last forever.
But for those who have been through.longterm relationships and have experienced the FULL gamut of love from the butterfly feelings , to the mild annoyance with each other to feeling like room mates, enemies or even strangers...... How do you define committed romantic love ,and the broad spectrum of pleasant and unpleasant experiences that it encompasses? I would hate to think love is merely a feeling as many people believe it to be because our feelings as humans are super fickle. I would also hate to think of love as the joyless commitment to uplift your partner as it seems to become for many couples in the longterm. So is love a feeling? A daily choice? Ongoing acts of service ? A joyful labour ? All of the above? And since love is not always a happy go lucky feeliing , how do you guage if the love can still be salvaged or if it has in fact ended? Love is an action. I don't mean to be religious but read 1 Corinthians 13... That my definition of love Wow... My parents drilled that scripture into me when I was a child and all into my teen years. It's been years since I read it. I actually forgot how perfect it was. Thank you so much Walton xx :) 1 Corinthians 13 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. |
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Edited by
Funzy65
on
Tue 03/21/17 06:32 PM
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I FEAR GOD, and I LOVE JESUS and his love for me.  ..LOL
But, boys & girls, ladies & gents, in my own peculiar & simple way, 
" WHEN THE HONEYMOON IS OVER, THE HARDEST PART IS STAYING IN LOVE ". ( Search on youtube for this song ) 
I find this also very practical just in case
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I admit..
I haven't read all of the way through the thread. Call it naive, dreamy, unrealisticly altruistic, whatever. I canNOT think of love in analytical terms. It's not choice for me. It is or it isn't! (in "quantitative" terms) *wink* |
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Edited by
peggy122
on
Tue 03/21/17 08:25 PM
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Love is a feeling....but that feeling is truly love when you want to be with that one person who makes your day....well your whole life better. Of course you will have times where you don't want to be in the same room with them because of something that happened. I feel that is normal. But you work it out and you move forward. However where love is a"joyful labor" is when you put in some effort to show how special he/she is. You do simple things like leaving a love not for that person, or for making them a hot bath, or making a sandwich (I know guys joke about this but it really is true...you make a guy a sandwich he didn't ask for and trust me...he will remember it). I have a friend who has been working a lot and he hasn't spent much time with his wife. Well, she isn't happy about it and right now they have been arguing. I told him that when he gets some time off to take her out on a date....just a date for the two of them...where they can enjoy one another. Sometimes acting like you are going out for the first time will make you both feel good and loved. It isn't the fact that they aren't in love. It is the fact that neither of them feel like they are right now. So love is really all the above, but I would like to also say that love should never feel like it is forced. It should never be about doing something because "well, I need to show her that I love her so I better do such and such". I agree with almost everything you said Goof, except maybe your last point. And I will preface my next statement by saying that this is my personal choice and not a blanket rule for everyone else . As someone who was divorced once and who wants to avoid a sequel if it can be avoided , I am determined during the months that I don't FEEL love towards my mate to force myself into doing MY PART to make the relationship work. If he is abusive in anyway and refuses to receive therapy, then I love myself enough to walk away. But I will force/commit myself to do MY PART. If his feelings are waning for me, I will do everything (within reason) in my power to resuscitate his passion for me. If he still wants to leave after Ive given my all, I will respect his desire to do so. Making men my slave, is not my style  .
I don't have control over him staying with me ,or him staying in love with me or even him remaining the version of himself that I fell in love with. All I have control over is ME , and MY commitment to him and the procss. If MY feelings for my mate ever decline, (which can realistically happen in a 30 year span) , I will force/commit myself to focus on my mate's attributes and what is loveable about him NOW. I know how unromantic and unappealing that sounds , but I have a child-like (AKA stupid) faith that if I focus on the positive and nurture those thoughts everyday, that my loving feelings, even if it takes years, will one day return. (... and hopefully his annoying azz will still be around, when they do ) 
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superb
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love is really all the above, but I would like to also say that love should never feel like it is forced. It should never be about doing something because "well, I need to show her that I love her so I better do such and such". I agree love should feel natural and free not an obligation and neither controlling
Nice to see you again sceptical soulmate 
I agree that love shouldnt feel forced , but I will repeat to you what I said to Goofball. If MY feelings for my mate ever decline, (which can realistically happen in a 30 year span) , I will force/commit myself to focus on my mate's attributes and what is loveable about him NOW, and force myself to do MY PART in making us work. I don't have control over him and what he chooses to do . All I have control over is ME and MY commitment to him and the procss. Thats the standard I want to hold myself to and the standard that resonates with me but I wont make a blanket rule for anyone else. In fact, I would totally understand if everyone perceives my stance as crazy . C'est la vie ...
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You can't change the past, not even a moment ago. Look at each other and see each other as they are right now. Do you feel love for one another right now? If you do, it is love...Its that simple. If you don't, is it because of the past? Think of it as ticks of the clock. Tick, Tick, Tick... If there are more ticks of love than not love you still love each other. If there are more ticks of not love than love you may not love one another. We hold onto love for many personal reasons. Those holdings can pull us thru those ticks of not love as long as there are ticks of love still happening. Do you say I love when you DO this or do you say I loved when you DID that. Loving someone for their past is sometimes enough to satisfy dedication and commitment to the other. We hang onto those moments of in love so they carry us thru the moments of not in love. If we are in love with the memory of who they once were to us, then we are not actually in love with them, we are in love with the memory of them. Conflict comes when the moment to moment reality of them is not the loved memory of them. When memory becomes the defining moment of love, it changes us. The more we experience it the deeper the changes. The memory of love can sustain us thru the empty moments for a time. Eventually, the loss of moment love will catch up and the feelings of love dissipate. How long it takes depends on how strongly you are in love with the memory of them. Love can be rekindled if the moment to moment love is felt once more. That is something that must be done in person. The memory of love can give you a chance to see if the moment to moment love is there. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are looking to see if each moment is a moment of love for them or not. If there are more moment of love then you accept the other as one that you love. If there are more moments of not love you feel nothing and the relationship does not rekindle. One thing that is difficult is that all people change moment by moment. Over time the things they did that you loved may not be things that now make you feel love. So repeating the past is not a guarantee to rekindle love. A lot of people say "Its the little things that make me love you". It really is. Not the simplicity, the little moments. Because the 'now' is little moments. Little chunks of reality that get strewn together to make a memory. Little pieces of feelings that occur within us that we adore or repulse. Do we love that person as they are right now with you or do we love the memory of them as they were at one time with you? Are you in love with that person or your memory of love? Agreed Tom. We are often in love with the the memory of who our mate was , as opposed to the present versions of them . As you said, sometimes its a good thing because it gives us comfort/solace through the hard times, but it can also be bad because eventually we are jolted by the devastating reality that the mate we knew , no longer exists. Everyone will eventually have to decide if they are capable of loving the present incarnation of their mate. I cant predict the future , but I am determined to give my future ever-morphing specimen of a mate a fair chance , and hope he does the same for the person I evolve into as well 
Oh and just to incorporate something, No1phd said, although we can succeed in creating more good memories than bad, there will always be people who focus only on the bad alone. We have to make peace with that fact sometimes. But hopefully if both parties are committed to focusing on the positive and moving forward, they will make it through ALL the moments you referred to- the good ,the bad,and the in-between . Thanks for your insights tom. they were actually very informative 
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I start off each relationship making it perfectly clear that we are to people first most.. two individuals.. Not one another's property.. We treat each other with respect and consideration... never talk to each other as though we are no longer individual people... couples tend to develop language... that does not revolve around each person being a individual with separate feelings and needing respect.... This is the number one important thing to me. Glad, I am not the only one that thinks a couple doesn't need to be joined at the hip or lose their individuality. Too many people in relationships do indeed try to own a person. I find that an instant turnoff. My individuality and his , are just as important to me as the "we" identity Navygirl. I totally agree with you and Doc on that point. We may not agree on what love actually is, but most of us can agree on what love is NOt, and stiffling a person;s individuality definitely doesnt sound like love to me. |
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love is really all the above, but I would like to also say that love should never feel like it is forced. It should never be about doing something because "well, I need to show her that I love her so I better do such and such". I agree love should feel natural and free not an obligation and neither controlling
Nice to see you again sceptical soulmate
I agree that love shouldnt feel forced , but I will repeat to you what I said to Goofball. If MY feelings for my mate ever decline, (which can realistically happen in a 30 year span) , I will force/commit myself to focus on my mate's attributes and what is loveable about him NOW, and force myself to do MY PART in making us work. I don't have control over him and what he chooses to do . All I have control over is ME and MY commitment to him and the procss. Thats the standard I want to hold myself to and the standard that resonates with me but I wont make a blanket rule for anyone else. In fact, I would totally understand if everyone perceives my stance as crazy . C'est la vie ...
hello Peggy surely we dont have to force ourselves to commit if it does make us happy committing....keep on writing those thoughts please  your mate is one lucky lucky guy
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I FEAR GOD, and I LOVE JESUS and his love for me. ..LOL
But, boys & girls, ladies & gents, in my own peculiar & simple way,
" WHEN THE HONEYMOON IS OVER, THE HARDEST PART IS STAYING IN LOVE ". ( Search on youtube for this song )
I find this also very practical just in case
OMGEEEEEEEEE funzy!!!!
I needed that . Thank you!!!!
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