ABRA,

You know better than I that if we ignore history, we are condemned to repeat it.

Wouldn't an eternal Creator with love in his arsenal not also recognize that we would ferret out a game being played on us?

We do love our puppetry!

Betraying truth would be a very dangerous risk to take.

We can all agree to that. We are disposed to cheating death in sport.

Again I say, I don't believe we are evolved from apes.

They are perfect in their apeness.

There just exists an omnivor in the garden that likes to inhabit man's physicality and wreak havoc with his soul.

Isn't the denial of this eat or be eaten fallen condition of an usurped garden worth mentioning????

Or have I just stepped into the mud that no one wants to scrape off their shoes in public debate.

Fear??????????? or Quid pro quo????

Which is it if there is a viable and pertinent point to be acknowledged?

Sure, you can take that stance. But that’s just accepting evolution for the most part, and then denying that man was part of evolution.

That’s a plausible argument. But that argument wouldn’t deny teaching evolution then would it?

That would simply be saying, “Ok, evolution occurred, but not for man”

However, taking that stance then runs into the problem that man introduced death when he sinned. So that would fly in the face that things could have lived and died before him.

I just don’t see how the biblical interpretation of creation can be salvaged.

It just isn’t going to work.

There’s really no choices Wouldee.

The only option open to the religion is to sweep as much stuff under the carpet as possible be claiming they are just analogies and allegories. The you can twist them around to match reality the best you can, and just try to shrug off the rest as possible misprints.

That’s really all I can think of Wouldee.

You see there was a time when I tried to salvage the religion myself. I finally gave up realizing that it’s an impossible battle. It simply can’t be true, even if you tweak it to try to get it to fit reality then you’ve only made a baby step!!!

Then you’ll be faced with the myriad of it’s own self-inconsistencies to deal with.

Best of luck to you! I wish I had something better to offer, but I’ve been there and tried that. As far as I’m concerned it’s just an unreasonable story and there’s no saving it.

What can I say Wouldee?

It’s my honest heartfelt position.

There are other religions out there that are more reasonable. I’ve personally chosen to use some of their ideas and philosophies.

Giving up the Bible wasn’t the end of the world. On the contrary, it was the beginning of a much more reasonable and meaningful life!

You think about that one, my friend.

On page one of this thread I brought this up in my choice of Biblical quotes to thrash around.

No one has dared to touch it. YET!!!!

It's been conspicuously avoided in much roof brain chatter.

I do agree with you that pre-eminent to man the cosmos are viable and active and very old.


No argument there.

The fossil record does not exclude immortality of previous inhabitants.

Too much goo down in the ground that suggests our gasoline was anticipated for the generation that would heap knowledge upon knowledge just prior to its exit from the stage of the play, my friend.

We may not have the time to discover the one thing that will lay this all to rest, namely the missing links.

My distinction is in the plurality of the links.

Not just humanoid, my friend, but all links.

Haven't seen ONE that suggests a transition into the qualities of a feather of a winged creature capable of flight.

Smashed perhaps in the geological record? Doubtful.

An unfinished work should not be taught as fact.

Even in Christianity, man is given opportunity to partake of the finished work of his disposition once freed from physical constraints and in preparation for his spiritual destination.

I find no congruency in the necessity to put the evo cart befora the created horse of our journey.

Perhaps that very thought is too repugnant for you to accept.

I have no problem believing that we evolved from lesser creatures. It doesn’t bother me, nor take away from what I am today. On the contrary I find a certain romanticism in the idea that we were fortunate enough to have evolved from such creatures.

I believe that all animals are filled with the Holy Spirit, not just man.

As to your post on page one,… I don’t believe in devils and demons,… I only in misbehaving men.

What would you require for the work to be ‘finished’?

That every single little detail of every single little feature be perfectly explained and accounted for?

That’s not how science works, nor does it need to work that way.

If we wait until we know the totality of things before we teach them then who’s going to learn them to carry on the further exploration?

If we wait until we know that totality of mathematics before we teach it then we may never teach it because it may not have an end. Moreover, if we don’t teach it, then who will be the mathematicians who will discover the next level of complexity?

Same goes for physics, and all other sciences.

Science is always an ongoing study, we keep learning more and more, but that seldom negate what we’ve already learned, it usually just adds to it.

It is a fact that the fossil records have indicated that live become increasingly complex over the course of the age of the earth which has been measured in a myriad of ways to be 4.5 billion years old.

Those ARE finished facts my friend.

Just because there are more details to discover doesn’t negate those fundamental observations. Those observations are NOT going to change.

ITS ALSO A FACT that the fossil record agrees completly with the scriptures, which say that all species reproduce acdording to thier kind. We see any given species come on the scene, exist for a time and go extinct. Wheres the half fish half monkey fossil? Nowhere but in scientists fertile minds.

SCIENCE ADDS TO ITSELF? LIKE WHEN we thought that puss was a part of the healing process and we would take it from one persons wound and put in on anothers? When we thought that taking a bath was unhealthy? When we thought that the earth was suspended by a string? The moon was a hole in the roof?

ABRA<

I agree with most of it.

Your personal convictions I respect.

Evo from ape to man is an unfinished work.

That's my point. There we have a difference that cannot be bridged without more time, wwhich may be moot anyway.
Romantically speaking...........
The only thing that is repugnant to me is the enemy in the garden that duped me in my youth while my family was distracted by Masonic and cultic alliances that are stoic in scope and left me vulnerable to confusion, which I assure you has been remedied and I no longer enjoy the suffering of dangling in the wind at the whims of an iniquitous usurper of my autonomy.

Physics and mathematics are favorite disciplines that you and I share a love of. But I don't see any parallel between those disciplines and Darwin's postulate.

Again, the feather would be helpful to me.

As would the fossil record of similar transitions.

They are all conspicuously absent, my friend

i see a huge parallel between mathematics and evolution, as the odds against it are admittedly astronomical.... (yet they believe.)

This isn’t necessarily true Bill.

You’re simply assuming that the argument is being made by an atheist.

Science doesn’t say that evolution couldn’t have been caused by intelligent design. It simply says that this is the way we were created.

You see, I’m not an atheist. I believe in the Holy Spirit. I just don’t believe that the Holy Spirit inspired the writings in the Bible. I don’t believe in the God of Abraham. But this doesn’t mean that I’m an atheist.

The way I see it, evolution didn’t need divine intervention to baby sit it every step along the way. The intelligent design was already in the atoms. Mainly in the carbon atom, but in the others as well.

It appears that given the right soup of atoms the molecules required for DNA will naturally arise.

That’s not a matter of chance. It’s just what atoms do.

If you mix fire with gasoline it’s not a matter of chance that things will burn. It’s what they do!

The same thing is true of the primordial soup. Evolving into living creatures is what atoms do when they are put together in the right combinations.

And it’s not slim miracle that the right combinations were put together either. As far as we can see out into the universe, the universe is made up of basically the same proportions of elements in all of the billions upon billions of galaxies that are out there. We can tell because the spectra of the starlight gives away their chemical composition. So far, every star we’ve ever looked at appears to have roughly the same proportions of the handful of elements that exist throughout the universe.

So evolutions is not likely to be nearly as rare as you think.

On the contrary, life might be quite commonplace throughout the whole universe! We simply don’t have the technology available yet to detect it.

Isn't alchemy a bit revisionist, then?

Tampering with evidence is not immaculate, Abra.

And he did say to him, " Hold thy Peace". What could that infer


I understood this to mean that it was not time to declare that Jesus was the Messiah. If that was made known too soon, then it would interfere with the people hearing the teachings He was bringing to them.

Yes, Britty, that could very well be.

Also, that the things he would have to say, if it continued, could be viewed as conclusory and close the souls of the observers to the exercise of faith.

That an unclean spirit is depicted in obedience also, inversely, ignites faith to believe. In the event of belief, revelations are in order and on it goes......

There is so much to it. That is fascinating.

Nourish that which brings joy to the heart... with the heart...

Your heart, my friend is the source of your life... or death...

Create good emotion within... that multiplies... by spending time thinking about that which multiplies good...

Beware of too much time time spent thinking about that which does not produce good...

For the amount of time spent will equally give birth to more of that which the time has been spent...

Ain't that a perfect prayer in the spirit of 'thanksgiving'!!!

Nothing to remove, nothing to add.

Whole is what those words add-up to!!!

:) creativesoul!

God is the source of my life, my friend.

It's best to be concurrent with His will.

That is available to all.

The exercises in comprehending the difference between my soul and spirit will have many opportunities to test the completion of their resolve, I'm sure.

In the meantime, my imperfections are still a reminder to all that man may serve God in spite of himself, without shame needlessly constraining the giving of gifts wherever they may be received.

Thanksgiving and fullness of joy are omnipresent.

In that, I am not bankrupt.

wouldee:

nothing is seperate... God is the source of all... my friend...


Voile:

I am glad you found those thoughts profound...




It is what one chooses to do with that which is...

Creative wrote (still refusing to use the quote button because she likes quoting the parts that were most important to her only):

"Beware of too much time time spent thinking about that which does not produce good... "

Beware thinking too hard about anything- muddy water will settle on it's own and become clear if not constantly stirred up (paraphrasing)....

anoasis:



Once again, my words must be too much from the heart... I have been mistaken as a "her" again...

Thank you for your appreciation and addition!!

Michael