it is another semantic argument

but for me equal would be if I had both my 9 year old take out trash and my 24 year old

if I game them both the SAME , treating them as if they were both the SAME



and fair would be if I had my 24 year old take out the trash, and my 9 year old load the dishwasher

if I game them both responsibilities, but catered them to fit their differences(in age)




do you try to treat family EQUALLY or FAIRLY?
and what about strangers?

I'll use jammy dodgers for an example if I may.

They're my favourite biscuits so if there was 6 in a packet and my friend wanted 3, that would be equal.

But because I love them more than him it wouldn't be fair, on me, 'cos I'd want 4, maybe even 5.

Hope this explains it.

"Equally" and "Fairly" are not mutually exclusive.

ok, is it more important to be 'equal' in all things or 'fair' in all things?

this assumes you can be equal AND Fair

but in cases where its one or the other,,,what choice would you make?

haa, I think fair pertains more to need than want,,

Different possibilities with this, depending on how much too much I think about it.

Not sure if you are worrying about appearing to treat them equally.

What you are talking about isn't semantics, it's point-of-view. From a simple "number of tasks" point of view, taking out the trash is one, and loading the dishwasher is one, so they are equal mathematically.

From an "oogyness" standpoint, I personally would take out several loads of trash, rather than load the dishwasher, because it's a simpler and a cleaner task, to take out the trash.

There is a time-commitment point of view. It takes me a lot longer to load a dishwasher properly, than to take out trash, so it would take two or more trash removals to "equal" one dish load, from the time point of view.

Then there's the concern about muscle strength. Garbage can be pretty heavy, and unbalanced and therefore difficult for a very young person to carry, while loading dishes one at a time doesn't require as much strength.

From a leadership/overall cooperation point of view, the tasks are assigned based on skills and capabilities, and all who participate in the family's effort to deal with the world are considered to be equal contributors, even of the individual tasks vary in difficulty.


Personally, as a parent myself, I would use such work divisions and assignments to teach the children (and the grownups) about cooperation and coordination, including how EQUALITY is neither a simple goal, nor is it necessarily a desirable one. Because family isn't about COMPETITION for ease of work, it's about seeing to the whole family's needs as a team.

When it came/comes to my kids I treat them accordingly to what they need. They are totally different and require a different approach, different things.
I think that's the best way to deal with people. Everyone has there own issues, personality, interests etc.

I take it that's what you meant by "fair"?

yes crystal , it is

Equal requires exact sameness
Equivalency allows for similarity and different human values being weighed against each other to find a balance.
Although there may not be a scientific method to weigh different human values against each other or in fact in multiples and multiple configurations us humans do have some skill at achieving such balance albeit with out exactness.


Fairness is an emotional human construct which when achieved promotes harmony.

So I attempt to treat others with Equivalency and fairness.

So when I give joethebricky 5 jammy dodgers without him knowing I have another pack for my self both he an I will believe enough equivalency has been achieved

Commensurate vs. parity


Not really.


Depends on what I'm treating them for.
Am I giving them a piece of pie?
Or am I giving them an allowance based on individual effort?
Am I trying to communicate love? Or teach discipline?


Depends on the situation, depends on the context, depends on the stranger.

I'll treat a stranger walking up to me in a used car lot differently than a stranger walking up to me in a dark alley differently than a stranger I know has something I want.

I always try to give my kids equal gifts for their birthday and Christmas, etc.

If I spend XXX on one, I spend XXX on the other. I have two sons.

As the oldest gets older, I notice I am spending a bit less on him. He needs to spread his wings and fly - and I have spoiled him enough.

I'm not sure what is equal or fair when it comes to things like this - I have always tried to be both with my kids.

I have to nearly beg to get either of them to take out the trash, and I'm telling you - that is NOT fair!

Okay... well I prefer that, fair. But with strangers it gets difficult because you don't know them.
ALso difficult when it concerns groups. There typically isn't space and time to deal with every individual need. So a base line is chosen that suits most.
You see this on the work floor and schools.
Which means in a group many don't completely get what they need and will have to compromise.
One of the reasons I'm not so keen on (larger) groups. I've had to adept to other ppl's rules too often in life. Rules that don't suit me.

So I think fair is best, but in many situations not possible to achieve.

I believe you touched upon one of society's biggest problems with this...
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.
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Fair and equal to me means the same thing. So it is a point of view to the person using the terms. But what do I know as I seem to be just another idiotic American.

I think fair takes into account the details and equal does not.

for instance



disregarding the dishonesty of watching the game from outside ,,,lol



giving them all the same size box does nothing to address the disparity but it is 'equal' (the same)

giving them boxes that allow them all to see, requires the shortest one to have a bigger box , that is 'fair'

Not semantic but...LOL, Love it!
Not only do I get to read what other people think it causes me to examine my own thoughts on the subject while composing my own views.
This way I can understand myself better and understand others as well.

Equal and Fairness are huge lies that are told to people.
In reality no one is equal. Nature is not fair.

These concepts are human delusions created to allow members of a society (yes, a family is a society) to function in relatively social acceptance.

I perpetuated equality and fairness within my family to allow each member to 'feel' good about their importance in life. To give them inspiration and satisfaction. The reason they turned out with different lifestyles is because they are not equal and life isn't fair.

The cold fact is that equality and fairness have no actual merit in the reality around us. It is all subject to interpretation and relativity.

You give any two people the exact same thingamajig and each person will accept it for different reasons, if both accept it at all. One may place value on it while the other may not care about it at all.

You can say the exact same thing to different people and each person individually understands your meaning to their own degree, if they understand a meaning at all.

You can demonstrate the exact same love for two people and each will accept it as they understand it.

Now, establishments (yes, a family is an establishment and so is a relationship) proclaim equality regulations to appeal to the people involved but in practice those equalities are often not maintained. In society it means court battles, in families it means strife and in relationships it mean unhappiness or stress. The sad fact is that equality and fairness never existed because we are not equal and fair is not a unified constant.

I adhere to my understanding of equality and fairness because it is a taught delusion that is needed to function in this world. Some delusions are good but they are still just delusion.

I tend to think the delusion is only in the idea of an ABSOLUTE

we will not have ABSOLUTE 'peace' but we can still strive to move more towards the ideal than away from it

we will not have NO CRIME, or NO BIGOTRY, or NO STARVATION,, but we should still strive to move more towards those ideals than away

so I agree there is no ABSOLUTE 'fairness or equality',, there is the idea that we try to move closer to it than not,,,

Good morning, Ms. Harmony

Are we talking about fairness and equality in general?

IMHO I don't think this applies to all social categories of life. Especially in today's society. Thank you.

yes.

I think there is next to nothing that applies to ALL, details matter.

but, I do think its important to strive to be as FAIR as is possible with others, even understanding that no ABSOLUTE fairness exists.

Without going into a bunch of variables. Striving for balance and understanding without double standards comes to mind.