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| Topic: Mr. Nice? Or Mr Naive? | |
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Well said ... I think it's also the old "we all want what we can't have" mentality. Very true pianoplayer. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. That factors into our level of satisfaction or disatisfaction with the mate we choose as well. Welcome to the forum! 
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Being a nice guy is necessary for most women but in and of itself it is not sufficient as other variables are also important. Trying to base attraction to another of either sex on one dimension is foolish and likely to be futile as so many others are essential too. Agreed sybaritic guy. Attraction is way too complexed as a phenomenon to confine it to one factor or dimension. 
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Edited by
Unknow
on
Sun 10/30/16 04:45 PM
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Long term loneliness due to feeling socially incompetent, understandably, can cause a persons spirit to plummet into a period of self-pity. Just to address this point you made about self pity Technovative. It is only human to feel sorry for ourselves when we feel that we are being the best "us" that we can be, and still getting rejected. Most of us have experienced that rejection on many levels, whether its based on our looks, or our education or our financial status or sexual skills or even our religion or morality. Most people can empathise with the depression and frustration that emerges as a result of that rejection. But there are some " nice guys " who are stuck permanenly in the "victim " headspace all year round. And for some , that self pity snowballs into an attack against the people that rejected them on the basis of personal preference . They label people who have rejected them as "gold-diggers" or "air-heads" or "jerks" when all these individuals were guilty of , was excercising their right to preference as most people do . Even "nice guys". who complain about being overlooked, sometimes have very demanding criteria for their ideal mate as well and end up doing some rejecting as well. When self pity becomes a permanant cancer , it only serves to repel the opposite sex even further away. It's a vicious cycle, and I suspect that such spiraling could be arrested if everyone understands that attraction is a very complexed thing and that for ALL OF US, regardless of our looks, personalities, etc, dating is a learning curve and none of us are exempted from the sting of rejection or failure in one form or another. In fact, rejection and failure are depressing, but very common hallmarks of the whole attraction/dating/ relationship process. And at the end of the day , the only real failure is giving up on the process by not educating ourselves ,by not learning from our mistakes, by not giving our BEST EFFORT and by not pushing past our comfort zones . |
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They say that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Is the wheel that's rusted motionless... incapable of a noisy roll, any less deserving of a few drops of lube? As msharmony astutely suggested, sometimes introverts, and those who are shy or socially awkward mischaracterize themselves simply as being 'nice'. I don't think that 'nice guys/gals' expect someone to fall in love with them by virtue of their niceness. Mostly I think they want to be acknowledged, and to connect with someone who looks deeply enough to see, and appreciate their qualities. Long term loneliness due to feeling socially incompetent, understandably, can cause a persons spirit to plummet into a period of self-pity. This is a complexed situation Techno. And very few people look at it from all the different angles. I personally have tried to explore relationships with men I considered nice, but to whom I was not attracted , and 99% of the time it ended up being awkward and uncomfortable for both of us. In scenarios like that, I would be asked point blank if I was willing to explore a romantic relationship, even though it was clear to them that I was not attracted to them in that way. And eventually , I would open myself up to the experience ,to see if my feelings would develop over time very honest with the guy about where my heart was at in the process . But within a month ,when the person who has feelings for you starts to flirt and try to be affectionate when you are not organically feeling it within yourself, I cant tell you how WEIRD the interactions get , and in the end , the guy feels rejected and humiliated despite how good my intentions are. So it is not a simple matter of acknowledging a nice guy and giving him a chance Techno ,and David M616 also alluded to that issue of acknowledgment and giving nice guys a chance. I have done that several times in the past , and I can honestly say that its something I don't want to try again, because the guy ended up feeling more rejected and depressed in a lonely ,one sided romantic zone, as opposed to the mutually reciprocal warmth of the friendzone. You re kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't in my opinion because ultimately you can't control who you are organically drawn to physically or romantically . That being said, I dont regret being open minded enough to at least give it a shot and I did end up falling love with one of the guys I gave that chance to , so I would definitely encourage people to try going out of their comfort zone a couple of times when it comes to dating. You really never know until you try. Yes Peggy, interpersonal relationships are complex. And the nuance of complexity will be different between each unique pairing of people. Even self-proclaimed 'nice' people have a spectrum of qualities that they find most appealing in potential mates. The generalized list of qualities you proposed (in a previous response) represents a basic set of standards; it doesn’t account for the fringes of the spectrum. Those who reside there are no less worthy or deserving of love and happiness. Of course some people are naive about where they fall on the spectrum, and with their expectations of compatibility. What we're talking about here is awareness and compromise, two elements that are required to achieve some semblance of balance in this life. What’s great is that each of us get to choose how much, if at all, we're willing to compromise. With open eyes, we have to decide how malleable we can be while being our true selves. Perhaps the bigger challenge is coping with the outcome with grace and humility. Do you think it would be fair to dismiss an expression of frustration with the 'whining' 'nice' guy's as 'whining'? Even dudes with swagger and bravado have feelings. No matter how convincing they are at projecting the illusion that they're unaffected by rejection. Internalizing hurt and disappointment is no more courageous, or healthy, than overbearing sympathy seeking is. |
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Edited by
Unknow
on
Sun 10/30/16 05:30 PM
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They say that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Is the wheel that's rusted motionless... incapable of a noisy roll, any less deserving of a few drops of lube? As msharmony astutely suggested, sometimes introverts, and those who are shy or socially awkward mischaracterize themselves simply as being 'nice'. I don't think that 'nice guys/gals' expect someone to fall in love with them by virtue of their niceness. Mostly I think they want to be acknowledged, and to connect with someone who looks deeply enough to see, and appreciate their qualities. Long term loneliness due to feeling socially incompetent, understandably, can cause a persons spirit to plummet into a period of self-pity. This is a complexed situation Techno. And very few people look at it from all the different angles. I personally have tried to explore relationships with men I considered nice, but to whom I was not attracted , and 99% of the time it ended up being awkward and uncomfortable for both of us. In scenarios like that, I would be asked point blank if I was willing to explore a romantic relationship, even though it was clear to them that I was not attracted to them in that way. And eventually , I would open myself up to the experience ,to see if my feelings would develop over time very honest with the guy about where my heart was at in the process . But within a month ,when the person who has feelings for you starts to flirt and try to be affectionate when you are not organically feeling it within yourself, I cant tell you how WEIRD the interactions get , and in the end , the guy feels rejected and humiliated despite how good my intentions are. So it is not a simple matter of acknowledging a nice guy and giving him a chance Techno ,and David M616 also alluded to that issue of acknowledgment and giving nice guys a chance. I have done that several times in the past , and I can honestly say that its something I don't want to try again, because the guy ended up feeling more rejected and depressed in a lonely ,one sided romantic zone, as opposed to the mutually reciprocal warmth of the friendzone. You re kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't in my opinion because ultimately you can't control who you are organically drawn to physically or romantically . That being said, I dont regret being open minded enough to at least give it a shot and I did end up falling love with one of the guys I gave that chance to , so I would definitely encourage people to try going out of their comfort zone a couple of times when it comes to dating. You really never know until you try. Yes Peggy, interpersonal relationships are complex. And the nuance of complexity will be different between each unique pairing of people. Even self-proclaimed 'nice' people have a spectrum of qualities that they find most appealing in potential mates. The generalized list of qualities you proposed (in a previous response) represents a basic set of standards; it doesn’t account for the fringes of the spectrum. Those who reside there are no less worthy or deserving of love and happiness. Of course some people are naive about where they fall on the spectrum, and with their expectations of compatibility. What we're talking about here is awareness and compromise, two elements that are required to achieve some semblance of balance in this life. What’s great is that each of us get to choose how much, if at all, we're willing to compromise. With open eyes, we have to decide how malleable we can be while being our true selves. Perhaps the bigger challenge is coping with the outcome with grace and humility. Do you think it would be fair to dismiss an expression of frustration with the 'whining' 'nice' guy's as 'whining'? Even dudes with swagger and bravado have feelings. No matter how convincing they are at projecting the illusion that they're unaffected by rejection. Internalizing hurt and disappointment is no more courageous, or healthy, than overbearing sympathy seeking is. Its possible that we were posting our last responses at the same time techno lol, as I think I actually addressed your question about self pity in my post above yours. To recap, self pity is a natural and human reaction to rejection ,which can be empathised with. The type of self pity that I am addressing is the extreme kind, that lasts for a year or more . Its a permanent headspace of victimisaton, which I deem as unhealthy and counter-productive to everything the person is seeking. I love also what you said about the importance of awareness and compromise, in achieving some semblance of balance in the (dating process and) in this life. And as you so sagely stated, the bigger challenge is coping with our outcomes( rejections, disappointments and failures) with grace and humility.
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Well, as you can see, I was responding to your earlier response, Peg.
In my opinion, a brief 'mourning' period after a rejection is typical and healthy. I completely agree that holding onto a victim mentality is counter-productive. |
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Well, as you can see, I was responding to your earlier response, Peg.
In my opinion, a brief 'mourning' period after a rejection is typical and healthy. I completely agree that holding onto a victim mentality is counter-productive. Agreed
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I think if a naive nice guy read this thread they would be less naive
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I think if a naive nice guy read this thread they would be less naive If that happens , I would be delighted simplycomplicated :) |
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Why do so many nice guys feel that women should fall in love with them because they are NICE? I have been nice all my life and it never once occurred to me that men should drop to their knees with desire for me because of my "niceness" There are soooooo many other qualities and factors which impact upon our ability to attract or find a suitable partner. Sometimes there are other areas we have to work on , like conversational skills, or grooming, or confidence etc. Sometimes the nice guy "pity party " alone could repel women. Or sometimes it could just be an issue of timing or fate. Some people, despite their attractiveness, or intelligence or kindness, are only able to find their compatible partner later on in life. So my question is this... When nice guys complain about women rejecting them because they are "too nice", do you think their complaint is valid? Or do you think they are naive /clueless about the complexities of love and relationships? I totally agree with your logic here. However, I will throw out something for you to ponder. You asked the question, "Why do so many nice guys feel that women should fall in love with them because they are NICE?" I certainly don't expect women to automatically fall in love with me just because I'm told by them all the time what a "nice guy" I am, but I sure wouldn't complain if some of these same women would at least give me a shot. Particularly given how many women state that that is what they're looking for. (Here's a suggestion: If you haven't done so before, look through some of the profiles on this site and see how often you see that theme repeated.) See my point? Women tell me all the time how nice I am, while stating that they just "can't find a nice guy anywhere." Yet, if I begin to flirt with them, they run away. Granted, I'm NOT much to look at, but still... So, yeah. Not expecting instant love for being nice, just asking for the opportunity to earn the love.
Hi DavidM616. 
With regard to what you said about women articulating that they want a nice guy, it's time that we all realise that people are looking for a lot more qualities than what they bother to state out loud ,because they assume these unspoken things are universally known. Here a few of those unspoken needs. eg. Most women are looking for a man... 1. with a job that allows them to pay their share of the bills and enjoy a few luxuries as well like going out for dinner occasionally or travelling 2. who is above average in bed 3. Who is consistent in action and temperament but not overly predictable (which translates into boring a lot of the time.) 4. who is nice , but capable of being assertive setting boundaries with others when necessary 5. who grooms himself in a way that makes the most of looks ie wearing clothes that match and fit the body no matter what size or height it is, having a hairstyle that flatters the individual, trimming wild facial and nose hair etc . (Im sorry , but presentation matters in the dating world. ) And let's face it , men have their list of things they want, which they seldom state out loud eg a woman with a hot body, who is PHENOMENAL in bed, who doesn't nag, allows them lots of space to hang with their friends etc. Secondly, with regard to your point about women not giving nice guys a chance romantically,it is a fact that some of the "nice guys" with average looks actually seek out more "hot/ glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities. And that comes down to preference, which every person is entitled to regardless of their looks, age, gender, personality etc. But my point is this. If a "nice guy" with average looks feels entitled to seek out the "hot and glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities, then why are they so surprised and critical of the "hot/glamorous" women who reject the "nice guy" with average looks in favor of the "hot alpha" male. Is it not the same principle of PREFERENCE at play? And can I make a side note here? I have often hear of "nice" men accusing women of choosing a "hot " jerk over an average looking nice guy , and the characterisation of jerk is based solely on the stereotype that all good looking men are brainless or heartless, which is not always the case. I have met many "hot" men and women who go against that stereotype , and who also happened to be kind, intelligent and talented. So when guys assume that it was only looks the woman was going for, they might be surprised to learn that the woman was also captivated by other qualities eg the man's confidence, assertiveness, lack of clingyness, etc. Im not saying that a nice guy with average looks can't have those qualities. Im just saying that the stereotype of the hot guy being a jerk is just as unfair as the stereotype that the nice guy is incapable of being passionate, spontaneous and assertive. That being said, I appreciate your point that the nice guys are not always given the chance they deserve, but then again. Sometimes nice girls suffer the same fate as well at the hands ofthe nice guys. Hello Peggy. :) I like the way you think. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders. (Where do you live again? Anywhere near Plainfield, Indiana?  )
I agree that no one generally rattles off a laundry list of everything he/she is looking for every time the topic is discussed.Certainly there are some presumptions about it. And, as another poster said, we are all basically looking for a very similar set of qualities in a lover, regardless of our gender or sexual orientation. I was just sharing my experience in order to offer you one man's perspective on your question. And, in fact, while we're talking about my experience, I can offer you a personal anecdote that supports some of your statements in your OP: Over the course of my last relationship, my ex told me at different times that I met every one of your bullet points above. Particularly number two. (No brag. Just fact.) And, we got along really well, and had a lot of fun together. Yet, she ended up breaking up with me. When she ended the relationship, she told me: "You're a wonderful guy. You've been nothing but good to me, and I'll always love you as a friend. But...you're just not the ONE. And, I'm not willing to settle for second best." Obviously, I was heartbroken. I was devastated. But, I got it. It's just like you said, there are so many complex factors that go into making a lasting relationship; so many personality traits (For instance.) that must be compatible. And, of course, there has to be that spark. So, yeah, there is a whole lot more to it than just being a "nice guy." Still, even though I get that, it is sometimes befuddling to have a woman tell me that she's looking for a guy who very much sounds like her description of me, yet she won't even give me a chance! ;) But,don't think I'm picking on women here, for I agree with you that men do the same thing. I don't deny that for a minute. I've seen it too many times! I think we can all think of examples of guys we have known who have a female friend that he really likes, maybe even really loves, and she is a really loving, compassionate, Top Notch lady, yet he just can't seem to bring himself to make a commitment to her because he is too busy chasing after every big-boobed blonde bimbo that crosses his field of vision. (*See footnote.) I think that what we are demonstrating here is that all of us, women or men: 1. Want the best that we can get in everything. 2. Don't always use sound judgement, particularly when it comes to relationships. 3. Finding another individual human being, regardless of gender, who is compatible enough with oneself in order to forge a life-long relationship, makes finding the proverbial needle-in-a-haystack stunningly easy by comparison. Again, I like the way you think, and I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to offer at least a partial answer to your question. :-) *Footnote- 1.I'm not saying that all blondes with big boobs are bimbos. (Like you said, many beautiful people are wonderful people.) But, some are. 2. Please forgive my goofy tangent here, but it's just the way my mind works. When I read the phrase "big-boobed blonde bimbo," I immediately think that it sounds like a page out of the Dr. Seuss's ABC Book for Adults. "Big B...Little b. What begins with b? Big-boobed blonde bimbo. B,b,B." 
Thanks for the affirmation DavidM616
And Im sorry your relationship didn't work out as you had hoped, especially with all the positives you both had going for you. It's really frustrating when that happens 
I agree with all 3 of your bullet points especially the last one. Finding a mate would be sooooo much easier if we were just able to focus on the compatability factor for building a life-long relationship together. I also have an interesting anecdote that relates to that. I have a smart, kind, talented and gorgeous friend who was in a 2 year relationship with a nice guy, who she cared deeply for, but who she never fell in love with. Even with that being the case, she told me that she was prepared to marry him because she admired his cosistecy and commitment to their relationship which she had bee lacking form previous partners, They eventually ended the relationship because she wanted to start a family as soon as possible as she was in her 30s and worried about her biological clock and he was unwilling to commit to a time frame for doing so. But 3 months later , she met a man who is flawed, but with whom she was captivated in every way, and she tells that the relationship experience is so much more fulfiling with him than with the man she was comfortable and compatible in a number of ways. My point is this. I see nothing wrong with settling for someone who doesn't light that spark in you because the risk of waiting for that person sometimes is that we end up empty handed which is hard for a lot of people. But I am really happy for the people like my friend who hang in there for the person who does light that spark in them and makes them feel hot, warm and LOVED, as they reciprocate equally. Does that mean that her relationship with the new guy will last longer? No it doesn't. But life is short and I wish for everyone that they find a life partner who helps them to make every minute of this short life as happy and as fulfiling as possible. You're welcome, Peggy.
Thanks. I wasn't happy about it, either, let me tell you... Again, I agree with everything you said. You are a smart cookie.
And I'm glad that things worked out for your friend. |
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But my point is this.
If a "nice guy" with average looks feels entitled to seek out the "hot and glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities, then why are they so surprised and critical of the "hot/glamorous" women who reject the "nice guy" with average looks in favor of the "hot alpha" male. Is it not the same principle of PREFERENCE at play? Thank you! I have always wanted to ask that question, regarding this topic. I think your point is well made!
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Why do so many nice guys feel that women should fall in love with them because they are NICE? I have been nice all my life and it never once occurred to me that men should drop to their knees with desire for me because of my "niceness" There are soooooo many other qualities and factors which impact upon our ability to attract or find a suitable partner. Sometimes there are other areas we have to work on , like conversational skills, or grooming, or confidence etc. Sometimes the nice guy "pity party " alone could repel women. Or sometimes it could just be an issue of timing or fate. Some people, despite their attractiveness, or intelligence or kindness, are only able to find their compatible partner later on in life. So my question is this... When nice guys complain about women rejecting them because they are "too nice", do you think their complaint is valid? Or do you think they are naive /clueless about the complexities of love and relationships? I totally agree with your logic here. However, I will throw out something for you to ponder. You asked the question, "Why do so many nice guys feel that women should fall in love with them because they are NICE?" I certainly don't expect women to automatically fall in love with me just because I'm told by them all the time what a "nice guy" I am, but I sure wouldn't complain if some of these same women would at least give me a shot. Particularly given how many women state that that is what they're looking for. (Here's a suggestion: If you haven't done so before, look through some of the profiles on this site and see how often you see that theme repeated.) See my point? Women tell me all the time how nice I am, while stating that they just "can't find a nice guy anywhere." Yet, if I begin to flirt with them, they run away. Granted, I'm NOT much to look at, but still... So, yeah. Not expecting instant love for being nice, just asking for the opportunity to earn the love.
Hi DavidM616.
With regard to what you said about women articulating that they want a nice guy, it's time that we all realise that people are looking for a lot more qualities than what they bother to state out loud ,because they assume these unspoken things are universally known. Here a few of those unspoken needs. eg. Most women are looking for a man... 1. with a job that allows them to pay their share of the bills and enjoy a few luxuries as well like going out for dinner occasionally or travelling 2. who is above average in bed 3. Who is consistent in action and temperament but not overly predictable (which translates into boring a lot of the time.) 4. who is nice , but capable of being assertive setting boundaries with others when necessary 5. who grooms himself in a way that makes the most of looks ie wearing clothes that match and fit the body no matter what size or height it is, having a hairstyle that flatters the individual, trimming wild facial and nose hair etc . (Im sorry , but presentation matters in the dating world. ) And let's face it , men have their list of things they want, which they seldom state out loud eg a woman with a hot body, who is PHENOMENAL in bed, who doesn't nag, allows them lots of space to hang with their friends etc. Secondly, with regard to your point about women not giving nice guys a chance romantically,it is a fact that some of the "nice guys" with average looks actually seek out more "hot/ glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities. And that comes down to preference, which every person is entitled to regardless of their looks, age, gender, personality etc. But my point is this. If a "nice guy" with average looks feels entitled to seek out the "hot and glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities, then why are they so surprised and critical of the "hot/glamorous" women who reject the "nice guy" with average looks in favor of the "hot alpha" male. Is it not the same principle of PREFERENCE at play? And can I make a side note here? I have often hear of "nice" men accusing women of choosing a "hot " jerk over an average looking nice guy , and the characterisation of jerk is based solely on the stereotype that all good looking men are brainless or heartless, which is not always the case. I have met many "hot" men and women who go against that stereotype , and who also happened to be kind, intelligent and talented. So when guys assume that it was only looks the woman was going for, they might be surprised to learn that the woman was also captivated by other qualities eg the man's confidence, assertiveness, lack of clingyness, etc. Im not saying that a nice guy with average looks can't have those qualities. Im just saying that the stereotype of the hot guy being a jerk is just as unfair as the stereotype that the nice guy is incapable of being passionate, spontaneous and assertive. That being said, I appreciate your point that the nice guys are not always given the chance they deserve, but then again. Sometimes nice girls suffer the same fate as well at the hands ofthe nice guys. Hello Peggy. :) I like the way you think. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders. (Where do you live again? Anywhere near Plainfield, Indiana? )
I agree that no one generally rattles off a laundry list of everything he/she is looking for every time the topic is discussed.Certainly there are some presumptions about it. And, as another poster said, we are all basically looking for a very similar set of qualities in a lover, regardless of our gender or sexual orientation. I was just sharing my experience in order to offer you one man's perspective on your question. And, in fact, while we're talking about my experience, I can offer you a personal anecdote that supports some of your statements in your OP: Over the course of my last relationship, my ex told me at different times that I met every one of your bullet points above. Particularly number two. (No brag. Just fact.) And, we got along really well, and had a lot of fun together. Yet, she ended up breaking up with me. When she ended the relationship, she told me: "You're a wonderful guy. You've been nothing but good to me, and I'll always love you as a friend. But...you're just not the ONE. And, I'm not willing to settle for second best." Obviously, I was heartbroken. I was devastated. But, I got it. It's just like you said, there are so many complex factors that go into making a lasting relationship; so many personality traits (For instance.) that must be compatible. And, of course, there has to be that spark. So, yeah, there is a whole lot more to it than just being a "nice guy." Still, even though I get that, it is sometimes befuddling to have a woman tell me that she's looking for a guy who very much sounds like her description of me, yet she won't even give me a chance! ;) But,don't think I'm picking on women here, for I agree with you that men do the same thing. I don't deny that for a minute. I've seen it too many times! I think we can all think of examples of guys we have known who have a female friend that he really likes, maybe even really loves, and she is a really loving, compassionate, Top Notch lady, yet he just can't seem to bring himself to make a commitment to her because he is too busy chasing after every big-boobed blonde bimbo that crosses his field of vision. (*See footnote.) I think that what we are demonstrating here is that all of us, women or men: 1. Want the best that we can get in everything. 2. Don't always use sound judgement, particularly when it comes to relationships. 3. Finding another individual human being, regardless of gender, who is compatible enough with oneself in order to forge a life-long relationship, makes finding the proverbial needle-in-a-haystack stunningly easy by comparison. Again, I like the way you think, and I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to offer at least a partial answer to your question. :-) *Footnote- 1.I'm not saying that all blondes with big boobs are bimbos. (Like you said, many beautiful people are wonderful people.) But, some are. 2. Please forgive my goofy tangent here, but it's just the way my mind works. When I read the phrase "big-boobed blonde bimbo," I immediately think that it sounds like a page out of the Dr. Seuss's ABC Book for Adults. "Big B...Little b. What begins with b? Big-boobed blonde bimbo. B,b,B."
Thanks for the affirmation DavidM616
And Im sorry your relationship didn't work out as you had hoped, especially with all the positives you both had going for you. It's really frustrating when that happens
I agree with all 3 of your bullet points especially the last one. Finding a mate would be sooooo much easier if we were just able to focus on the compatability factor for building a life-long relationship together. I also have an interesting anecdote that relates to that. I have a smart, kind, talented and gorgeous friend who was in a 2 year relationship with a nice guy, who she cared deeply for, but who she never fell in love with. Even with that being the case, she told me that she was prepared to marry him because she admired his cosistecy and commitment to their relationship which she had bee lacking form previous partners, They eventually ended the relationship because she wanted to start a family as soon as possible as she was in her 30s and worried about her biological clock and he was unwilling to commit to a time frame for doing so. But 3 months later , she met a man who is flawed, but with whom she was captivated in every way, and she tells that the relationship experience is so much more fulfiling with him than with the man she was comfortable and compatible in a number of ways. My point is this. I see nothing wrong with settling for someone who doesn't light that spark in you because the risk of waiting for that person sometimes is that we end up empty handed which is hard for a lot of people. But I am really happy for the people like my friend who hang in there for the person who does light that spark in them and makes them feel hot, warm and LOVED, as they reciprocate equally. Does that mean that her relationship with the new guy will last longer? No it doesn't. But life is short and I wish for everyone that they find a life partner who helps them to make every minute of this short life as happy and as fulfiling as possible. You're welcome, Peggy.
Thanks. I wasn't happy about it, either, let me tell you... Again, I agree with everything you said. You are a smart cookie.
And I'm glad that things worked out for your friend. I'm a smart cookie! Woohooo!!! 
Thank you David 
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But my point is this. If a "nice guy" with average looks feels entitled to seek out the "hot and glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities, then why are they so surprised and critical of the "hot/glamorous" women who reject the "nice guy" with average looks in favor of the "hot alpha" male. Is it not the same principle of PREFERENCE at play? Thank you! I have always wanted to ask that question, regarding this topic. I think your point is well made!
Thank you Inni dreamz. The double-standard is glaring and incredibly unfair.
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I'm a smart cookie! Woohooo!!!
Thank you David
You're welcome, Peggy! |
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So my question is this... When nice guys complain about women rejecting them because they are "too nice", do you think their complaint is valid? Or do you think they are naive /clueless about the complexities of love and relationships? I think they are naive, and ignorant on the Nature of Woman. |
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Why do so many nice guys feel that women should fall in love with them because they are NICE?
Part of the social contract and life script. "I bought you coffee, so you should buy me coffee, I offered respect to you, so you should offer respect to me, I was the nice guy, I wasn't pushy, I didn't molest you, yell at you, or cause you to feel negative emotions, focusing on trying to engender positive emotions in you, therefore you should avoid making me feel bad, what would make me feel bad is for you to not give me what I want, I gave you good things, now it's my turn to get the things I think are good." So many "nice guys" aren't "nice guys" they're just "patient players," playing the basic system in place. "If I'm good, and you accept me as good, then it's partly your responsibility to fulfill ideas like good begets, is rewarded by, and deserves good, which is what makes it good. I've adopted good behavior to get you to see me as good, so you have to do the good things. If it walks like a good, quacks like a good, then it's a good and you should treat it as such, if you treat it as anything else, then you're the bad guy." When nice guys complain about women rejecting them because they are "too nice", do you think their complaint is valid?
No. Nice guys don't complain. Nice people don't generally even realize they're nice people. They're just people to themselves. do you think they are naive /clueless about the complexities of love and relationships?
I think they are just frustrated that their social facade isn't effective or leading to the results they want in as timely of fashion as they want. |
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So my question is this... When nice guys complain about women rejecting them because they are "too nice", do you think their complaint is valid? Or do you think they are naive /clueless about the complexities of love and relationships? I think they are naive, and ignorant on the Nature of Woman. I agree Rooster
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Edited by
Unknow
on
Tue 11/01/16 06:44 PM
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Why do so many nice guys feel that women should fall in love with them because they are NICE? Part of the social contract and life script." I was the nice guy.... I gave you good things, now it's my turn to get the things I think are good."
I understand your logic ciretom , but expecting someone to be kind to you in response for your kindness, is a completely different thing from expecting someone to FALL IN LOVE with you because of your kindness. That is taking a HUGE and unreasonable leap in my opinion. Nice guys don't complain. Nice people don't generally even realize they're nice people. They're just people to themselves. I dont know if I agree with this. I think most of us perceive ourselves as being nice, and some of us genuinely are. And while it is kinda tacky to announce it out loud lol, the act of announcing it doesnt disquality anyone from being authentically nice. I also dont think that complaining about rejection, disqualifies you from being nice. It just reinforces the fact that you are human. I dont have an issue with nice guys whining, I have an issue with them whining EXCESSIVELY, and adopting a permanent victim stance. I also have an issue with any nice guy expecting to earn love with niceness. Nothing wrong with wanting love or hoping for it, when you are kind to people. But expecting it in an almost demanding way is unreasonable in my opinion. |
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I also have an issue with any nice guy expecting to earn love with niceness. Nothing wrong with wanting love or hoping for it, when you are kind to people. But expecting it in an almost demanding way is unreasonable in my opinion.
I suspect that the "nice guy" compares himself to the "bad boy". |
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Edited by
Unknow
on
Wed 11/02/16 06:02 AM
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I also have an issue with any nice guy expecting to earn love with niceness. Nothing wrong with wanting love or hoping for it, when you are kind to people. But expecting it in an almost demanding way is unreasonable in my opinion.
I suspect that the "nice guy" compares himself to the "bad boy". You may have a point there David. I guess it's only natural to look at the jerk with the desirable and sometimes kind woman on his arm , and wonder ,"What am I doing wrong?" And not that what I'm about to say is comforting in any way, but I truly believe that the good women out there that choose the mean guy , whether he looks like a stud or not, are emotionally damaged or unbalanced. And there are many women like that out there. I also think that many of those women aren't attracted to the guy's "badness" per say. I suspect that they are drawn to what they perceive as the guy's confidence, strength, spontaneity and passion.And they ignorantly believe that those qualities can ONLY be found in a bad guy , and are prepared to put up with all the ill treatment that comes along with it in a bad guy. It's tragic and so unnecessary. |
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