I fully understand. And just for the record I do not denounce your view of God. On the contrary, I can’t even really know how you view God.

I had just written a quite lengthy response describing more details concerning my pantheistic view but then lost it due to a computer malfunction.

I’m too tired to retype it now. Maybe another time.

No abra I did what I did because I was led by the Lord to do so....He led me to the man and led me to lift his chin....yes in a sense the man I always saw before was not this sad down trodden man.......but I was led of the Lord God to do what I did.

I think that God led me to him on this particular day because that is what the man needed....I would have to say God chose me because of like you said who I am....But it was not me taking the steps toward this man...It was God leading me there. No sometimes I believe that as humans we tend to not let God lead us....but when you say ok God do with me as you see fit...and your heart and soul are open to it...God will use you.

I attribute all my good deeds to God.....Because all that I do is inspired of him and for his Glory. If you are so filled by the Holy Spirit Abra it just is a part of you to do for others.....I have major Agapao Love For God, meaning to esteem, direction of will joy in knowing that God always has my best interests. I will take another piece of my Breaking Free class and share with you now.

Identifying agapao love (all pertaining to GOD) Agapao always originates with God (1 John 4:7)

1. Does he regularly circulate into my thoughts (Ps: 63-6

Often Sometimes Rarely

2. Am I often drawn to spend time with Him?

Often Sometimes Rarely

3. Does my life demonstrate a love for God (Rom 5:8)

Often Sometimes Rarely

4. Do I often enjoy God

Often Sometimes Rarely

Do I find relief or satisfaction in the obedient life

Often Sometimes Rarely

I answered honestly often to every question. Because I have agapao love for God and my will his his, my joy is in him. And I just see it as a win win situation.

Abra wrote:

But what if that same man you met then walked around the corner and got mugged by a street gang. Did God MAKE that happen too!!!

Answer: no the street gang made that happen....

Of course not! You’ll claim!!! God only gets credit for the good things that happen. The bad things that happen are caused by the devil (or maybe just by the bad people who do them?)

Answer: No sweets not at all....God also gets the credit for the trials he puts us through...because in the end they are what needed to get back to him.....

abra wrote:
Well, it seems to me that if bad things are caused by the bad people that do them, then the good things are caused by the good people who do them.

Answer: But then you have to ask yourself what makes those good people good and those bad people bad.....if satan is behind all the evil, bad, nasty things, that people do, think and act out.......and God is Love and if you follow God, what kind of person are you? then you have your answer.

abra said:

Why attribute everything good that happens to God, whilst rejecting the notion that God is in control of the bad things????

Either God is in control of everything or he’s in control of nothing.

Answer: If I am understanding these last few days abra........then I would say would you believe that your God would let something bad happen unless in the end it was beneficial for that person. My understanding with you abra is that there is good and evil in this world......I believe that satan is the reason for the evil...

Abra said:
If God has the power to put that man in your path to have you give him a “chin-up” then God also has the power to have the man avoid the alley where the gangsters are.

Answer: And God would if that was what he saw as fit...but he also might of made that man walk into the store with his chin held high and feeling good again....which is the case.

Abra said:
In other words, if you are going to attribute to God the power to place people in particular situations, then you have to accept that God is the one who made little Johnny ride out in front of an oncoming truck on his bicycle. And God is the one who made people be in places where accidents have occurred.

Answer: Also abra you have to give us mere mortals a lil credit.....I know when God places me in a situation for his Glory and when I am just being a nice human being. For example I was in the market and this lil old lady in front of me as a 1.70 short in paying her bill....so I paid it.....Did God put me there to pay her bill......I don't know.....but then a week later I was a $1.00 short in cash on my bill and someone behind me paid mine......What does that mean that we just have alot of nice people paying each others bills...or the way I looked at the situation which is do for others and it will come back 10-fold.

abra said:

In fact, I often hear people claim things like, “Wow! I was supposed to go to work in the World Trade Center on 9/11, but I had a terrible head cold! God must have given me that head cold to save my life!”

Answer: Faith abra......thats the bottom line.



What about the thousands of people that God DIDN’T save on that day????

No way. If God is in control, he’s either in control of where everyone is at all times, or he isn’t.

This is just another one of those “Have your cake and eat it too” things.


Answer: But again sweets you don't know the plan that came out of all those deaths at the world trade center....the story after story of helping, and caring, and bravery......Did you know of one single person who blamed God for it....No because it was a man against man thing....God had nothing to do with it.....except for those that believe and used their faith to heal, or with the process of healing and either way its a win win situation.

abra said:
God can control our paths, and does so to create good things, but when bad things happen don’t blame God!

It’s in inconsistent philosophy.

If God baby-sits, he doesn’t do a very good job with a lot of people!

Answer: But then again have those same people give their lives to God....Do they Love him with every fiber of their being. I would never blame God for what happen in NY and I lost 5 family members.

You want to give God credit for everything good that happens, and deny that God is responsible for anything bad that might happen.

It's a one-sided phiolosphy.

Answer: And as you have said God is love so I would again say abra that if God chooses for your life to give you a trial and set you in the desert it is for good reason......And at the end the people he usually puts in the trials and in the desert benefit and come back to him.





Yahweh and/or Jehovah is a masculine name of God therefore how can God be a she.

I beleieve that we are ALL quite accurate... to some degree...

Because of my belief that God is THE pure energy source and every thing in this universe is made up of such energy, it is not only His "creation" of sorts, but moreover, his ability to experience by physical means... he lives THROUGH everything... all encompassing... all knowledgeable... as it happens... through all that happens... through all conscious thought...

Nothing is seperate...

We do have a "control", of sorts... as does he, of sorts... You see, in this way God can, and in fact does, play a "role"... He created the "universal laws"... every "mathematical" law known to man, and more... Though we have just begun to grasp the ramifications of such...

He can, has, does, and will continue to reach out to the world offering the wonderful peace and love that is held within the light...His light...pure energy... in whatever ways he deems necessary, according to how many options he has... WE give Him options by OUR choices... while the laws of the universe are, and will always be, at hand.

Nothing "evil" comes from pure energy... until it has been tampered with...by mankind.

I do not believe that He created or experienced "darkness", until man came... thereby lending credence to both, the "free will" notion, and the notion of God's "role" in all of the quite questionable things that happen in this world... not everyone listens to their conscience... but everyone has one, albeit "contaminated" by darkness, should it be... everyone still has one...

Though he knows "all"...he knows all in a present sense... as well as past... the future PERHAPS he has "predicted", through those more channeled into the source of light, based on his past knowledge of the history of life...

The notion of which makes it quite possible to have Jesus... mother Theresa... Ghandi... Dr. Martin Luther King Jr... Paul... John... Bill Clinton(just kidding)...

Those individuals made a choice to desire and seek a blameless and loving existence... God's "original" energy works within them to a greater degree... as it does for all who seek this... pure of heart... this wonderful loving existence... they think of this... they embrace this... they live this... and thereby they also "attract" this...

As well as those who choose to be dishonest, commit murder, and any other hideous "crime of humanity" one can think of... They also lived, thought, and attracted their own negative and dark energy existence... by living, thinking, feeling, and embracing such things... one will "attract" more of these things...

Not everyone listens to the "source"... no matter what method he/she/it chooses to reach us...


Thank you all for researching the scripture, most of which resonates well within me... very enlightening...

And I can definitely see where God has, perhaps, attempted to show us(through these people) what would or could happen should we(humanity) continue on our path of destruction... I do not believe it to be destined though... not as a result of what God "wants"... Moreover, perhaps, as a result of what man has chosen...

One believes what one creates... and one creates what one believes...

Nothing "evil" comes from pure energy... until it has been tampered with...by mankind.

I do not believe that He created or experienced "darkness", until man came... thereby lending credence to both, the "free will" notion, and the notion of God's "role" in all of the quite questionable things that happen in this world... not everyone listens to their conscience... but everyone has one, albeit "contaminated" by darkness, should it be... everyone still has one...

Though he knows "all"...he knows all in a present sense... as well as past... the future PERHAPS he has "predicted", through those more channeled into the source of light, based on his past knowledge of the history of life...


LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT

thank you cs your a true inspiration.

My thought on these latest posts is very abstract and sure to be difficult to grasp.

psalms4:6. There be many that say, Who will shew us any good? LORD, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us.

What just happened there? Anybody??

Here's where I'm going with this. Each and every one of us is on a different lesson clock and are learning what time it is, daily!!!

We depend on the will of one another to pave the way of each successive step on our own journey as we walk our separate paths to hopefully the same end of recognizing perfect understanding of ourselves and how to mutually respect and dignify one another in love.

That being posited, let's take a peek at the Creator, and how to start a conversation with him, her, it they!!

Where to start? What language does God speak?
How would we discern God's answer to us, separating out the roof brain chatter to know it's God?
What initial knowledge do we have that is sufficient to dialog, and comprehend God's true input?
What basis of knowledge do we possess in advance of God's communication to us?

Answer: NONE!!!!!

But we can look at the stars and begin to map patterns and find postulates and theories to communiccate a better understanding of observances of creation.
We can dissect any plant or animal and reverse engineer the mechanics of each and learn from the observations.
These are quite simply put, observations.

Now then, suppose God were to communicate something to our inquisitive mind and we had no observable knowledge of the pointed observation's mechanics or character. Would we understand God's instruction? or direction? or point of fact?

Answer: NO!!!

How do we talk to God, or know God is speaking to us without the knowledge of God sufficient to recognize that, in fact, this is God communicating something to us?

We cannot even begin to comprehend the mind oof God, let alone understand a direct and loving communication without foreknowledge of the relationship.

So, what am I saying? Catching on yet?

Can someone reading this thread pick this up and add to it?

Can we go there in discussion and learn from one another, whether or not we can agree that we are all subject to some basis of clear understanding about the assured blessed nature of our Creator that includes the very probable distinction that whatever God may say to us on GOD'S LEVEL may be nothing more than WHITE NOISE????????

in love with a sincere gesture at hand, WOULDEE

Here here!



I don’t believe in evil in the same way that you do. I can guarantee you that. I know your world view. You have not told me anything that I haven’t already heard a millions times before. Not one iota that I haven’t heard before. Your world view is very common to me. It’s the standard Christian picture. It’s not like I don’t know where you are coming from. I know precisely where you are coming from.

I don’t believe in Satan. I don’t believe in evil in the same way that you do. And I don’t believe in a baby-sitting God.

Now, having said all that, I do believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. I use those words generically and certainly not with respect to any specific religion. The universe has a spiritual nature. We are this universe. We ARE the Holy Spirit. There is no separate godhead.

When you feel that God is working through you that’s because you are allowing the Holy Spirit to work through you. The mere fact that you have come to know the Holy Spirit through your belief in a particular religion doesn’t make that religion true. It’s merely your perception of how it works.

And with that I’ll quote Creativesoul one more time,…



We believe in the same God Feral, we simply understand God in different ways. Neither one of us is wrong. We simply know God in different ways. That’s all there is to it.

....like Eddie vetter says, (Pearl Jam)



EVOLUTION, BABY!!!!!!!!

The way I see god, she experiences creation through us. She has no agenda beyond creation. Her creation is her agenda.

Mankind didn’t introduce evil into god’s creation. There is no such thing as evil. God created the world the way it is within the boundaries that she chose. To blame mankind for introducing evil is absurd. As though mankind could even do such a thing.

Our goal should not be to come to know god. That should be a given. Our goal should be to return god’s gift of life by giving her the gift of living it. This is the essence of god’s creation and purpose.

No one shall be removed from the spirit of god, for that would be impossible. No one can even exist outside of god so how could one imagine to become separate from god? To do so, and still exist, would require becoming a god in your own right.

Spirituality should not be our goal, but rather it should be our essence.

Just my thoughts.

Would wrote:

psalms4:6. There be many that say, Who will shew us any good? LORD, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us.

prayer for deliverance.....but take it up a few versus.....
Psalms 4:1 Answer me when I call, O God of my righteousness! Thou has relieved me in my distress; be gracious to me and hear my prayer.

O sons of men, how long will my honor become of reproach? How long will you love what is worthless and aim at deception? But know that the Lord has set apart the godly man for Himself; The Lord hears when I call to Him.

Also Psalm 62:8 Trust in HIM at all times, O people Pour out your heart before him; God is a refuge for us.

would wrote:
That being posited, let's take a peek at the Creator, and how to start a conversation with him, her, it they!!

Where to start? What language does God speak?
How would we discern God's answer to us, separating out the roof brain chatter to know it's God?
What initial knowledge do we have that is sufficient to dialog, and comprehend God's true input?
What basis of knowledge do we possess in advance of God's communication to us?

Answer: NONE!!!!!

2nd Answer: God hears all.......As God Is, Was, And Always will be, And through his Beloved Son Jesus Christ, He hears prayers. God hears all tongues of all people who truly seek him.

wouldbe wrote:

But we can look at the stars and begin to map patterns and find postulates and theories to communiccate a better understanding of observances of creation.
We can dissect any plant or animal and reverse engineer the mechanics of each and learn from the observations.
These are quite simply put, observations.

Now then, suppose God were to communicate something to our inquisitive mind and we had no observable knowledge of the pointed observation's mechanics or character. Would we understand God's instruction? or direction? or point of fact?

Answer: NO!!!

2nd Answer: With all due respect I would have to disagree with you. God speaks to your heart and yes their is total understanding their. For example I have sinned and I know it...but I keep doing it because it pleases me.....God most assuredly will speak to my heart and show me the errors of my ways....Because my ways are not his...and his Love and mercy show that to me constantly. And at the end of the day......I always give it to him....and learn from the experience. Which I feel is what life truly is about.

wouldbe wrote:

We cannot even begin to comprehend the mind oof God, let alone understand a direct and loving communication without foreknowledge of the relationship.

So, what am I saying? Catching on yet?

Can someone reading this thread pick this up and add to it?

Answer: I know that I can't even begin to either understand or comprehend the mind of God.....But I don't need to, because he knows me.....He know my heart......he know my wants, desires, my destiny, all of it....before I was even a seed in my mamma's belly........I also know that I love God more then anything, or anyone on this planet.....And he is with me all the days of my life.

I totally believe in understanding him through his word, I study every day and take classes all the time...Because even in my lifetime I will never truly know the magnificence that is HIM.

Hello creativesoul ... much of what you shared rests well within me also ...

Abra - we swim in the same pond my friend. Your views on evil are shared...


Good evening everyone

I'M STILL BEING QUITE INTRACTABLE HERE. I'M NOT FOLLOWING THE STRING OF THE THREAD AS i WRITE. i'M LISTENING TO MY SPIRIT.


The evolution of God's word to us is inherent on our developed observations. Here's another tidbit,attributed to have been scribed in712 B.C.

Isaiah 45:7. I form the light, and create sarkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:8. Drop down, ye heavens, from above,and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; ( note the semi colon) I the LORD have created it.

Looking back through time this looks like Sandbox 101.

((( Sherrie )))

It's always good to hear acknowledgement of shared views.

Im glad you have one minion....

Sherrie is my mentor!

She has taught me more than you can ever know!

wow Feral

Would I be 'your' minion if I shared 'your' beliefs on evil?


An interesting judgement about someone you don't know...

no I don't think you would be my minion....because you do so well at being abra's. And can you honestly say you even know or even read my beliefs on evil....

and yet you can honestly say you know anything about me at all?

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks ... nuf said

I see the us vs. them mentality still exists here.

I can honestly say that when I read your posts it just sounds like a broken record to me Feral. Not because you are repeating yourself, but because you seem to be giving the standard Christian picture and I’ve heard that picture a million times before.

I seriously don’t see anything knew in your posts that I haven’t already seen before Feral. You seem to have learned the Christian view very well.

Hi Harry

It seems one was thrust upon me against my will