the devil stole mans' soul through mans disobedience... so all that fall short, he has the title to. But Jesus took that upon Himself and walked in truth without disobedience. Therfore death cannot hold Him or His!! This is an important distinction. The devil has no right to Christ, therfore Christ has the right to uphold His own Word to us that he would not refuse anyone that comes to Him. To come to Him is to come to God. Act on that and He will show you all by Himself, without any help from me or others... That no man profit from the Grace of God except to receive it without merit!!!

Not the devil, the devil set him up. The Father pulled away and he was allowed to feel every bit of evil in us...we killed him.



The point was to prove the end. That's why there was a tree named the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


Now we make the educated decision, that's the new covenent.

Ok the necessity of suffering and dying was two fold. First it was like GOD needed to experience what being human was all about, the pain, tribulation, fears, hopes joy, sadness etc. The reason Jesus had to die was to redeem man. Man could not be redeemed unless Jesus died and was able to DESCEND into HELL, RISE and "take man with him into eternity" In otherwords he had to descend into hell to bring man out of it. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. 2much4u, he didn't succumb to the devil he conquered him after all he went down and escaped just as he allowed us to do by dying for us

Nuff said
Frank

He died an extremely violent death as a testimony to our suffering, he didn't have a choice in the face of injustice, but he never waivered in his faith, for us to do the same, and to prove we could suffer greatly and be saved at any point if we are believers. Death is seemed as the ultimate, but as it says, whomever shall lose his life for me, will gain another.

he saw hell, but never stayed there.

I think the dramatic death, at the hands of "the state" was needed for the people to rebel against the Romans, no?

Isn't that what all martyrs are about? Dramatic sacrifice to inspire others?

Then upon seeing the martyrs sacrifice the observer thinks (literally) "oh my god, if they are willing to DIE such a PAINFUL death for this cause, surely I can pray in public (or whatever)..."

I personaly believe it is better to live for a cause than die for one but I admire the dedication of those who feel their sacrifice is the best way of stopping or starting something, e.g. I always think of the buddhist monks who burned themselves alive to protest war (specifically the Vietnam war) and they did in fact bring a lot of attention to the plight of the innocent bystanders in the conflict.

Redy, I have to note, is it not the same today, the news trys to become more and more shocking and couchs everything in the most extreme language possible to get attention from jaded americans?

DITTOS, Norrin...may everyone see the similarity in our posts and chew on the words.....I ask that you only spit out the bones

and he didn't die, he still lives on

Personally, I believe his body died but his slept in death like we do, the Father simply resurrected him earlier than most.

It's usually forgotten that when he raised, a good number of other dead people were raised too, so this wasn't a small event.

right transient, his body died

He is the Captain of our souls. The first born, brgotten of God. All that come to God come to Him. Therefore, those that slept in the hope of His coming also rose in the advent of having come and drawing all that had hope of His coming to where He is. This is THE KING OF GLORY!!!!

I'm sorry, not trying to be argumentative here, but all who come to God do NOT necessarily come to Jesus or through Jesus.

it doesn't matter whom we come to, but that we come to...

Mmkay, I reread your original question, Red... I answered you in the standard, "What's in front of my face," way.

God knew rebellion would happen, it's the product of intelligence and power of choice... we must explore all options. He have to fall down before we can ride the bicycle.

The idea for this big, long mess is to have a record so we NEVER do it again. As to why sin didn't end with Adam and Eve, we have to know that in a group, our actions affect others.

I don't know, bout that one either. I know a few atheists I believe God would have a large time yappin at when their time is up. These are not stupid people, so I'm thinkin they'd enjoy each other immensely.

All of us hear his small still voice and all of us may listen and learn....the Bible has said that religion , pure and true, is ti visit the widow and the fatherless and not be spotted by the flesh. Organized Christianity has many flawed quirks as an institution, yes, and it's a club that I'm rather perplexed by and wish it weren't so self-righteous and self serving in it's neglect of purpose, but the fact remains that not all who listen will obey. Hearing without doing can bear unwanted fruit. And not all who hear AND OBEY KNOW hIS NAME. Let me say that, in your defence, there are many that do know Him and He knows them and He is not mocked by anything or anyone. There is record that He has and will draw many to Himself in the Bible. He is recorded to have responded to an individual how it came to be that this individual was entered into His City as he didn't know Him as such.. and I paraphrase.. " when you did the least to my brethren, you did it to me, in that you clothed the naked, fed the poor, dressed their wounds, offered shelter from a storm."

"Why was the crucifixion of Jesus necessary?"


It doesn't matter if it was necessary or not the point is really moot he was getting crucified anyways and supposedly as the story he goes?? He knew would be.

This has already been answered in my posts in this thread on pages 4, 5 and 6.

http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/44776?page=4

answered? .....that's your opinion.

what I want to know is why is the term "Necessary" being brought in to the equation?

He was being and was crucified plain and simple ....

has nothing to do with necessary.

IT HAPPENED.

Think about it Quake, drama, drama, drama why would an all-powerful God need sooooo much drama to make a point, why not just osmose the knowledge of it into our brains. However, I'm not the OP. Red'll more than likely clarify her wording and questioning for ya.