respectfully this equal stuff is emotional lack of logic

if an adult sat up in your house and ate food you worked to purchase and wore clothes you worked to purchase and didn't provide any income (except in the case of parents who take on other responsibility for those beside themselves) , went through everyday sleeping, eating , and sitting on the pot, and maybe taking studies to benefit themselves, and the law came to you whenever they messed up,, would you just continue talking to them and considering them 'equal'....lol, of course not, its not a logical analogy at all

the wheel is a wheel of balance that I agree with and has nothing to do with spanking, which I had IN ADDITION to all things in the wheel

Being spanked was no more some terrible violence, than scraping my knee when I rode a skateboard too fast, it was an uncomfortable consequence that left me with a healthym uncomfortable, and memorable deterrent from repeating poor choices.

"Clean up your own mess."
All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten
by Robert Fulghum

Non violent parenting is a way to encourage your child proper behavior without being abusive. It is not easy. It is not popular however being a parent isn't a popularity contest.

Children are inconvenient.



Children are not food products.



Children are not slaves.

convenient: involving little trouble or effort.


I agree that children are NOT convenient. You get out the effort you put in and they take effort to bring up correctly


spoil: diminish or destroy the value or quality of.


food is not the only thing that holds quality or value and not the only thing that can be spoiled,, as in 'spoiling our fun' for example

and children can be spoiled



and my own children do belong to me in the direct sense that they are directly and immediately the result of MY choice to bring them in the world and MY responsibility to bring them up

as opposed to yours or anyone on this thread


I am thrilled that parents find what works for them, but lumping spanking in with violent abuse or just putting an absolute negative spin to concepts like punishment or discipline are far fetched

here I have to say that although we are not directly singled out,, those parents who find these things effective at raising balanced and well loved humans are collectively attacked everytime someone makes such silly assertions

what worked for you is NOT going to work for EVERY BODY because not EVERY kid responds to the same things

put me in a time out..? That would have encouraged me to do that behavior more as I have always been imaginative and most creative in my own space

and I personally haven't seen where timeouts are affective, but I wouldn't discard parents that are telling me they are or attack their choice because its not my preference

ground me? again, so what, I never really needed to have a lot of outside stimulation from others, I had enough with my family


take stuff away? I never cared about stuff


spank my butt,,? ok, that was something that was actually not gonna have the affect of encouraging behavior

Maybe only a little spanking is better than a lot, but humans are capable of choosing not to use violence on their kids for a reason.

Not considering a child your equal just because he/she is a child and needs your help is the same as a man considering a woman as unequal for being less strong physically...men and women are equal but different...children and adults are equal but different. Also, be careful if you have a son, he will grow up and become stronger than you one day, so yeah stick to hardly any spanking at least for your own health and well being.

This scenario is pivotal to non-violent parenting. The parent was neglectful for allowing the situation to occur.

The choice to resolve the situation by scolding (instilling fear) is relative to this quote.



This is another important aspect of non-violent parenting.

no actually its day and night,,,,,

a woman is still an ADULT, in the eyes of the law and the society they will be treated as an ADULTS,, gender doesnt outweight ADULTHOOD


so long as I am responsible by law and culture for both their NEEDS and the outcomes of their ACTIONS, and they are not responsible for mine we are not 'equal' and I need to have authority of some sort to monitor their behaviors and supply their needs


when they become adults, the system/government/law take my place of authority and then we are both EQUAL Under authority of law and
I am no longer responsible for either their needs or their actions in the eyes of the law or society,

by definition, anyone in a position of authority is not therefore EQUAL

they have more authority, and usually because they are given more responsibility

when my children become ADULTS the law sees them as my equal,, when my children become ADULTS the law will give them the same consequence when they break laws as they do me,, because the law will replace my authority and become the authority,,,

as to my son, yes I have one and we are constantly commented on for how much we laugh together and get along,, even though he was spanked,, same is said of his relationship with his father

if spanking is 'often' than it is ineffective,,,and other options should be taken instead

but if other options are ineffective(And not the same option works in every situation, let alone with every child) spanking may be the best teacher/deterrent/lesson

how can a parent 'allow' a dangerous choice to happen? they cant be in a kids head or have eyes on them at all times, and kids will get curious as to WHY something is off limits, even when you are the greatest parent in the world

Spanking = punishment = rough treatment or handling inflicted on or suffered by a person or thing.

Nowhere in that definition does the word punishment state that it is teaching or used in discipline. All the synonyms used are frankly negative and unhealthy.

So, because a dog owner has authority over her dog she can also spank/hit her dog when he misbehaves/disobeys?

Also, even though law gives a parent the authority over their child, this can be taken away when there is abuse of said authority. Unfortunately it is within your legal right to spank your child..one day it will be illegal I'm sure. If children could they would ban spanking. One day adults will ban spanking, when we say enough double standard, just like we did with men/women. Is the law always right? Was the law always right? What do you think about other kinds of discrimination and why don't you apply that thinking with children and animals who are not different, they only lack the power to make laws, so of course the laws are not always in their favor.

Many people are ignorant about the basic human rights of their own children, no wonder the world is do messed up. If you don't take the time to be a parent and you spank your kid and neglect the true problem (which is something you're not providing usually) and that kid will turn into a stranger like anyone you see on the street. If you will just get to know your kid and learn to meet that kid's needs, just like a baby when it's needs are met they behave well. If you want a baby to act up try spanking it, that is very good for making angry children. I bet you let a baby cry for hours? I respond to my baby immediately or check if it's just a little interruption in sleep, then I would leave it alone to go back to sleep. At what age do babies become old enough to be spanked, and what age do they become to old? See how silly this is? And don't say every child is different. EVERY CHILD DESERVES LOVE AND RESPCT! GET IT?

that isn't a definition , that is someones personal opinion

here are actual definitions,, first from Webster and then from oxford,,,

1: punishment


2obsolete : instruction


3: a field of study


4: training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character


5a : control gained by enforcing obedience or order

(oh look, WEBSTER has punishment as the FIRST entry under discipline,, and lets see what oxford says)


1.The practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience:
‘a lack of proper parental and school discipline’


we can argue all day over defnitions and semantics of discipline vs punishment vs instruction or whatever

but it still wont make it any less nonsensical to lump all spanking in with abuse or violence,,,

If children could they would ban chores and rules and vegetables too,,lol,, that's why they aren't given AUTHORITY to set their own rules

the 'true problem' is kids don't have the experience to ignore all influences but their parents,, there comes a time where they don't just blindly accept what parents say and start to experiment in SPITE of what their parents try to instill,,,,

I wouldn't spank a baby,,, you need to study up on developmental stages cause we are going in circles when you truly believe a baby is the same as a preteen, or a young adult or a parent,,,

'babies' are old enough to spank when they are at a HuMAN DEVELOPMENTAL stage to understand rules and consequences and to know rights from wrongs and to INTENTIONALLY choose behaviors that could lead to their harm,,,, that age is not magical for every child

but developmentally that type of knowledge comes in around ages 5 and up when they are expected to be able to attend school and understand the guidelines of the environment,,,

That is not what the word punishment means. I searched for word on the same search engine the world uses. Nobody will sue the well-known corporation for misprinted typos anytime soon.

It's the one definition on the front page of every known definition site. The fact that you believe punishing a person is a positive treatment speaks volumes about what you believe to be "the truth." Spanking is a form of violence and a fear tactic. You refuse to even consider that much which has been studied numerous times within psychology.

actually, I posted authoritative definitions(oxford and Miriam) of what it is to DISCIPLINE,, and part of it can include punishment

punishment: the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense

retribution: punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act.

the fact that the English language is so easy to manipulate towards our own biases is a discussion for another time

I have stated , over and over,, that spanking in my family and my culture is about learning CONSEQUENCE,,, pinning the intent on desire for 'punishment' or 'retribution' is someone else's perception entirely and they are entitled to it as I am to mine

my perception is this:

1. parents are to love and PREPARE their children for life

2. Life has choices and choices have consequences

3. Parents , in preparing children for life, have to prepare them with the skills to understand REAL CONSEQUNCE and to understand the power of choice

4. SPanking, when used in a BALANCE of teaching, communicating, and supporting, serves to teach and prepare a child for consequences that are not always pleasant in REAL LIFE, consequences that may actually be Dangerous to them in REAL LIFE, and consequences that we desperately want them to AVOID in real life to keep them safe.

5. Spanking serves as a lesson about potentially harmful choices and as a deterrent to repeating those choices in the future

While I don't yet have kids, i will comment on the bold text above...

I have 5 brothers, and as the smallest one...i'm 6'3 i can say that spanking your son's won't lead to them using their physical dominance in any way toward their mother.

My mother spanked all of us, she did not 'abuse' us, i understand that some can't distinguish between the two...so i help those who don't understand.

At the core of any abusive person is a desire for 'control' or 'dominance' i believe that when a LOVING parent spanks a child to TEACH or CORRECT a behavior it is not about control at all, instead is about teaching them life-lessons and that bad behavior=consequences granted spanking is just one method of such 'consequences' but i think it is probably the most effective because it uses a teacher we already have built into our biology...pain. Pain is an effective teacher, and in reality the only NATURAL teacher that we have to learn how NOT to do something....

How do tribes men know NOT to touch a fire? simple, they touch it once..it hurts...they don't want to do it again because they want to avoid pain. Even if someone never seen a cactus before, once they grabbed it once...they would do it again...it hurts...pain is a teacher that is fundamental to our survival and really the only way our BODY learns what to do/touch and what not to.

So back to topic, when someone spanks their children out of love they are teaching a child how NOT to behave/act for the benefit of the child developing into a well-adjusted adult, not because they want to 'control' their child.

My mom spanked all of us, all of us by the age of 10 were probably more physically dominant than our mother, however, not one of us would dare of thought of using that against our mother...why? because we were taught from a much younger age what acceptable and un-acceptable behavior was, and we understood that for certain behaviors that there would be unwelcomed consequences, maybe when we you younger it was a spanking, when older, it was privileges being taken away, or even grounding...the point is that we understood unacceptable behavior has consequences and it was consistent.

I know a lot of my friends that were not spanked/and or never really had ANY consequences in their upbringing...unfortunately for many of them the first time they learned that un-acceptable behavior=consequences is when they are sitting in a cop-car because they threw temper-tantrum at 18 and hit their neighbor...unfortunately at that point it is to late, and society will be their teacher...and it's a cruel teacher at that.

I appreciate that.

Noone in my family has spanked their kids for retribution or control,,, but out of love and desire to teach about real and difficult consequences to poor choices,,

Yes i think the most parents that spank out of love are not abusing their children, they don't want to hurt their children, they understand the difference between abuse and discipline.


I think it turns to abuse when you do MORE than what is NECESSARY to correct the behavior...for example, letting your child touch the hot-stove once to understand what 'hot' means is just that...teaching...screaming at your child to touch it, then holding their hand on the stove to 'make your point' is abuse.

more pain than necessary=abuse

A light spanking, tap on the hand, enough for a little bit of pain should suffice....i think abuse is when you 'spank' your child for 3 hours, because you're drunk and pissed off at something they did earlier...now that's abuse.

But as a corrective measure, when you're using 'just enough' so that it's uncomfortable and they understand...then no i don't believe it is abuse.

Isaac,
thank you for a good explanation and examples of this as a teaching tool balanced with love.




in regards to scolding or discipline in public. parents should teach their children how to act in public.
my mom and I were at the mall and little kids running around almost ran into my mom.
as she's already more frail I stepped between to absorb the impact. their mother told me I should watch where I'm going.
I told her if her kids feel the need to play she can take them to the play center in the middle of the mall. otherwise please control her kids before they injure someone

If you need to scare and hurt your kids you're doing it wrong, they're never wrong.
I hope all the kids have a nice day with no misbehaving parents.