A lady also appreciates a simple gesture without having gifts given to her. Me, I don't like chocolate, flowers, or jewelry, but I sure appreciate a man that listens to me. Or actually looks at me when we are out rather than gawking at other women as it always made me feel unattractive. I would love for a man to say and mean he is sorry rather than shoving flowers at me as an apology. Men still lack the basic communication skills even after all these years.

My best friend is a chick and she went out on a first date with a guy who showed up with flowers. She didn't like the fact that he did it simply because she felt it put pressure on her (like because he brought flowers she had to kiss him or even go further). She simply wanted to meet him for the date and see if the two of them had common interests. I tend to believe this is how many women feel in that they don't want any sort of pressure. I have never given flowers on a first date. I have opened a car door and I always take care of the check (unless she asks for us to split it). First dates cause anxiety because you never know how they will go. So you take the risk and you really do not need to add something like giving flowers that could add awkwardness or pressure. Just my two cents.

With "old fashion?"
In my experience the "problem" is usually one person subjectively interpreting what "old fashion" means and then expecting strangers to adhere to that subjective definition without knowing what it is.


From my experience in dating today women get offended (sometimes, although rarely offensive) if the (man) shows up on a date with flowers, opens the doors, helps with her chair, pays, takes her home, walks her to the door, and it comes off as a script of what he thinks he's "supposed" to do, a facade, that he wasn't himself, he was only doing this because it was meant to manipulate her perceptions, AND (most importantly) has an idea of how she is "supposed" to respond in turn and she's judged offensive, or a psycho, or a *****, if she doesn't respond how he thinks she should because he did all these "gentlemanly" things.


No woman can read your mind about what you "truly" expect or not.


What is a thing of the past is your behavior (holding doors, pulling out chairs, etc.) no longer represents universal ideas.
What you are doing is not necessarily associated with "good" behavior anymore.
Has little to do with fear or "real man" nonsense.
Has more to do with education than anything, symbols being more complex.

You are spot on as usual.

I been dating a guy long time ago who could be a real jerk. He didn't believe in opening a car door or doors, beyond what he'd do for anyone else. I remember once it was pouring down, I wasn't exactly dressed for rain, cos we'd go out. We went to the car, he walked past my door without opening it, left me standing there, waiting in the rain. Walked around the car to get to his side, got in the car himself, then opened my door from the inside so I could get in.
I was not amused ..

Blondey....beautiful piece!!

Yes..the little things do matter a lot!

No i see every day the MAN of today calling his woman a Bit-- i've heard it many times in these young snots that call themselves men? Most see jail or have criminal records, sit on their rear end collect social services, live off mom& dad not caring to have or find a job? I guess this in your definition is a man's man? There are some out here at least trying to accomplish and create a living? I guess in your definition nobody takes pride in the "Family Name?" Just produce these jerks and turn them onthe street so they can destroy what is achieved by others that they expect that is owed them? Not as long as i live!! No the big Man and Woman in todays world have almost every other word said is (F) world? Have baby-daddys or baby-mommy? There are no Men Or Mothers for these Children? Rare Few. Go complain about rape,diseases,robbery,to others then when it happens to you! Your children mirror you as the image an adult is supposed to be,so my advise is look in that mirror and consider if you want to reproduce?

A lot of my friends say the same about my mannerism in conversion. A lady of 69 and my daughter 34. But there was a problem neither addressed in our conversation (they didn't take a breath between words)! If you "keep talking and not allow others to speak" then how is that a conversation? When i was young if you butted into a conversation you got smacked in the mouth!! (Manners) So in waiting for a break you miss out or were not allowed to interrupt others! I won't interrupt or try to out talk a woman its impossible!! I do listen and when you come up to breath try to answers comments or questions! Is this your problem in communication ? There is not a day that goes by that i know everything, when that day comes then i consider myself a dead!! Every day I listen and learn!! Personally you are a friend and a beautiful woman (bet that pissed you off) But let a Real Man be that!! You are X military now law enforcement (i believe) therefore taking a "man's role" in sioecity being a woman ! don't bring that into a relationship its too domineering unless you find a man that likes that. Yes i've seen the other problems you've addressed that has or is happening in your life! But if you are a fighter like myself (you hate pity) as i do! So kick Azzzz!!

Oh, by the way~ there is not a breaking down in being a Man or Woman!! You either are or you are NOT!! There is a choice that only you can make, i impose nothing on anyone!!

See, it's probably daft speaches like that that they find offensive mate.

Why does there have to be man's role or a woman's role? Why can't it be a person's role? Only one man ever got me. He understands that I most certainly will accept help from a man; will let him hold open doors, hold out chairs, and will even let him buy me a meal or two. The big difference is he also respects me when I want to do something for myself as he actually respects me as a person. I told him that I tested positive for Cancer and a week later he was still doing a follow up and at the time; I told my boyfriend four times; he kept on forgetting what I told him. That is the difference between a man that listens and one that doesn't. I can also talk to this man about anything and nothing is taboo. He respects my right not to talk about something as well. He is a firefighter and very much a manly man but he has taken the time to talk to me as an equal; a real person; and not treat me like I am stupid, niave, or treat me like a china doll. He understands that a sincere apology means more to me than buying me things and knows my love simply can't be bought.Sadly; he is married but is a very dear friend. Its too bad that there wasn't more men like him in the world. I am not out there to compete with men; I just want to the right to live my life without men critizing me for who I am.

I would respond to that (mate) but you put the shoulder on your own foot!! I'm not bickering with you as in another topic i started to have it shut down as before!! Don't!!!

That was nice blondie thank you for sharing!!

Hello, im new to mingle, however, at 46 I know what I want and it really sets the date when a man knows what he wants. It not just being old fashion, its also a presentation of who you are, you can take control of the date (in the context of...dont ask me ten times "so what do you want?". If a man can present himself as respectful and sexy, romantic, and intelligent, warm and easy to relate to, without worrying every 10 seconds,what I think for every move he makes, then he will definitely get that second date. Thats just me

Yes....in another life Navy....you and I would date....and there would be no flowers.

Summary; Just be yourself, If you don't believe that you want to give or receive in a relationship then don't! To me it shows your partner there are still (Old Fashion) people in the world left! Don't feel obligated to do anything you don't want happening to you! There ARE still (Good) Men and Women in the World that know what Selfrespect, Morals,with pride to maby keep Chivalry going for future generations? Talk but don't forget to listen also! Its not all about YOU in a healthy Relationship because you are not the only one involved! You are the only one that knows what you wish to give and receive! Thanks to Everyone that participated in my topic on your opinions! (Will) If you wish to keep this topic going then do so,but keep it clean as it was started! I will look in occasionally -maby comment.

not sure op ...I would think that would make a women really like a man but maybe they did not like them after meeting ... some under different circumstances don't like it ... and feel pressure ... I had another friend did this for a women ... and after awhile of him being so nice to her she let her past get in the way ... or just used as a excuse not sure ... but they really liked one another he could just not figure her out ... so just stayed close friends ... and if they talk now I would be surprised but not as much ... made me mad cause she hurt him ... but not to much I could do about it ... it was his dissension to make...

My Father was born in 1910 my Mother was 16 years younger! I had 3 older sisters! Therefore I was brought up with respect, honor,manners,and courtesy! I was around a lot of older people with the same outlook as i have! They were of all cultures ,races religious beliefs!Respectable ! This is what i hope for in a future! I don't condemn others in their beliefs but wish them to honor mine! If i bring a Rose on a Date (who am i harming?) If you are offended-all is needed is for you to say so! There are others that apperate kind gestures and compassion. Without expectations or scenarios of past relationships! Those i don't need or want in and have their own falsehoods in being with Me! (Will)

I think just about all of us women are saying that gifts are pressure and if you are making the girl uncomfortable on the first date; there won't be a second date. That being said; a single flower would probably be acceptable without feeling any pressure.

Maby that is what i should of said in the beginning! Culture,Respect,Honerabiety, is all that is needed in representing yourself! Mannerism,Selfrespect is what you are to others! That's (Old Fashion) to me! If you have pride in one thing then let it be yourself and others! Thank You navygirl!!