If I could kiss this post, I totally would.

Yep, you can feel that way.

The main supports I base my non-practicing beliefs on are the "��Ten Commandments"�� that were originally laid out in the "��Old Testament"�� book of Exodus (20:1-17), after God through Moses and Aaron rescued the children of Israel from the Egyptians idolatry, slavery and sin.

We then find in the OT book of Leviticus how God is giving Moses clearer instructions for the Israelites to understand and follow the Ten Commandment laws. Especially those concerning adultery and sexual deviancy after they had spent hundreds of years mired in the ways of the world and completely forgetting the earlier teachings of their forefathers.

In the entire 18th chapter of Leviticus we see God reminding the Israelites that HE saved them from their enemies and that His ways pertaining to sexual conduct are to be practiced and respected, not THEIRS of misconduct.

Then in the OT book of Deuteronomy (22:5) we find more detailed instructions about how men and women are even to reflect their own gender in the way we dress, and (22:13-30) virginity is prized above life itself.

It didn'��t matter how many instructions or reminders the children of Israel were provided though because they had been steeped so thoroughly in the sins of those around them that they chose to ignore all of God'��s messengers and prophets and just continued doing what pleased them instead.

So then we have the New Testament that was created by Christ'��s followers as eye witness testimony to what they personally experienced with and about Jesus and His teachings that were once again pertaining directly to the OT Ten Commandments and our NT conduct concerning them.

Beginning in the first book of Matthew, Jesus started specifically quoting and explaining their meaning over and over again during his many attempts to teach his followers, the Israelites and even the Gentiles about the laws of God they had all corrupted over the centuries because they chose to defile themselves in the ways of the Pagans around them.



As I made clear in another thread about religious topics, I left my church, had my name taken off the books, and don'��t profess to be a practicing Christian. And "��I"�� don'��t point my fingers at us personally for any scripturally based sins we might or might not be committing. All I'��m doing is focusing our attention on the Scriptures and reminding us about what they say.



I don'��t understand how any% of us can be confident about being cool with Jesus if we only follow his words pertaining to love and forgiveness but reject all the rest of his instructions that might not hit the right cord with us simply because we choose to rebel against the God of the Bible who gave us His laws to follow.

After all, if God'��s precepts aren'��t that important then why would He have bothered to send His only son Jesus to walk among us repeating the laws with instructions on how we'��re supposed to respect them? Then He allowed Jesus to be brutally murdered by all those who rejected the recapitulating of their message.

Me personally, I wonder why people who choose to live alternative lifestyles don'��t just simply create another offshoot religion or codebook of morals that doesn'��t clash as much between its teachings and their practices.

Especially when the Bible clearly spells out how it is to be interpreted for all those who believe in and adhere to it, the Word of God, not of man.

Specifically when it pertains to the male/female relationship we'��ve been instructed is the only correct and acceptable one in the eyes of the Trinity since the first marriage between Adam and Eve in the OT book of Genesis (2:21-25).

21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man." 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. 25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Again, I'��m NOT judging or condemning anybody for how we choose to live our own lives. But I do object to justifying our behavior by tearing apart the Word of God and making it of little or no consequence so we can try to appease our possibly guilty conscience.

You did not specify to give a biblical based defense, therefore I did not provide one. However, I did answer your question.



I will ask you this though, does masturbation fall within the guidelines of Christian premarital sex? Would it not be a sin just the same has actual intercourse?

Jesus ran around with a bunch of bandits, murderers and thieves... Why? Because they had a better perception of reality exactly the way it was. He did not even seek out the self righteous people such as yourselves... But instead the people that were subject to life in the real world exactly the way it was...

We can find all of these Bible verses that would condemn us for living life and being subject to its terms and not our own. Ultimately, there is only one person we have to answer to in this lifetime. Premarital sex is no different than looking down upon somebody from a spiritual moral hilltop. One of Jesus disciples denied him after he was put on the cross.. One of the guys that Jesus selected to share the gospel with him, denied him.. Nobody knows what they will and won't do in any given situation, not even one of the disciples himself...

This is what the Bible says about self-righteous people...

Matthew 7:1-5

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

One can't really talk about one part of it, if they do not choose to acknowledge the rest of it....

I believe, the next time any of us try to go walking on water, our privates are surely going to get wet...

though I have reservations about what constitutes a 'formal union', I do believe the 'judge not' verse is often misused

I think it is significant that the verse doesn't end with 'judge not'. PERIOD

instead it speaks of each of us being JUDGED, which the Bible is pretty clear will happen,, so there is no avoiding being judged, meaning that having no judgment ourselves is futile,,,,


I believe the difference in being 'self righteous' and using moral judgment is the self righteous do not use righteous judgement about THEMSELVES,

it is not the act of judging actions and words as wrong that is self righteous, it is the act of not being able to acknowledge wrong in ourselves,,,

IF I lied about something, and I recognize I was wrong and am sincere and genuine in repenting of that behavior, there is NOTHING wrong with recognizing that behavior as wrong , regardless of who does it,,,

to say I have done wrong, but then be on the fence about someone else doing the same action is wrong or trying to claim they did right is as hypocritical , inconsistent, and illogical

just as much as insisting I have done right in my action but then claiming someone else performing that action was wrong

biblically speaking, there is right and wrong, and it matters not who commits it, we are to recognize it

there is no commandment to not 'judge' , just not to be unrighteous, inconsistent, or hypocritical in our judgment


judging right and wrong ACTION is paramount to living a Christian life, judging good(of which there is not one, according to the bible) or bad PERSONS, or assuming to know Gods plan for them puts us in danger of being Self Righteous and harshly judged ourselves

In 1 Corinthians 5:12, the Apostle Paul says, "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"

So, yes, those of us who are members of the universal Church are permitted to judge the behavior of people who claim to also be members of the universal Church.

Now, is sex between two people who don't have a biblical marriage* to one another considered sinful from a New Testament perspective?

Answer: Yes.

Can members of the universal Church mistakenly engage in such sin?

Answer: Yes. However, when members of the universal Church do so, they don't openly tell the World that they are going to pursue sexual sin.

So, what about people who claim to be members of the universal Church and who openly pursue sexual sin?

As I see it, such people have a seared conscience. They have become mastered by their flesh to the point that they listen only to the desires of their flesh.

When one such person was discovered among the believers in Corinth, the Apostle Paul ordered the Corinthian believers to excommunicate that person until such time that person repented.



(*A biblical marriage is a marriage between a man and a woman only.)