Jesus said "pick up your cross and follow me"

Paddy, it is impossible for me to condemn you.

As the saying goes...
"I don't have a heaven or hell to put you in".
Please don't see me as your judge...I'm a sinner saved by grace.
I have been born-again, of the spirit.
According to the flesh, I have the tendency to sin/ according to the spirit I am being led of God...by his Word of Truth. My faith in His Word pleases Him.


The Word of God says...

Rom_8:1, There is therefore now no condemnation
to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(((After we have been presented with the truth...we must choose darkness or the light. You are not stuck in sin. You can be led out of it if you follow the Spirit.)))


Jesus sent the Apostle Paul on a mission to the gentiles ...

"To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light,
and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins,
and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."Acts 26:18

(((Jesus IS the Light of the world!!!

We must not place our right-standing with God and our eternal salvation in the hands of mortal men.)))


Gal_1:8, But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,
let him be accursed.

Gal_1:9, As we said before, so say I now again,
If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

(((These 2 verses are for those who have heard
the true gospel message
that they follow not false teachers.)))


Paddy, do read the Bible for yourself to see what the Lord is truly saying to us.

Blessings to you,
in Jesus' Name,
Amen.

It's true, I've been through the books and don't recall Jesus calling out the people for over their sexual orientation. I do however remember something like this-

'Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy nighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

That ye maybe the the children of your Father...'


So why don't we give up accusing the innocent and instead redirect our energy towards the care of those who need it? eh?

Here is an article worth reading:



"Jesus Didn'��t Condemn Homosexuality"



by

Kyle Butt, M.A.



By and large, the American culture is aggressively promoting the sinful lifestyle of homosexuality. In the midst of such pressure, many people who call themselves Christians are caving in and accepting this perverted lifestyle in spite of God's clear teachings against it (Butt, 2003). Just recently, the country singer Carrie Underwood stated that her Christian faith lead her to support gay marriage (Nilles,


By and large, the American culture is aggressively promoting the sinful lifestyle of homosexuality. In the midst of such pressure, many people who call themselves Christians are caving in and accepting this perverted lifestyle in spite of God's clear teachings against it (Butt, 2003). Just recently, the country singer Carrie Underwood stated that her Christian faith lead her to support gay marriage (Nilles, 2012). In truth, the life and teachings of Jesus Christ could never be accurately understood to lead a person to conclude that homosexual marriage is moral (Miller and Harrub, 2004).

One of the most common arguments made in support of homosexuality is that Jesus Christ did not explicitly condemn the practice. Supposedly, since Jesus never stated specifically: "��Homosexuality is a sin," then His failure to denounce the lifestyle can be interpreted to mean that He approved of it. This reasoning is riddled with error.

First, Jesus explained to His followers that He did not have time to teach them everything they needed to know. He told them that the Holy Spirit would bring to their remembrance all that He had taught, and would include additional teaching that He had not had time to cover. He told His disciples: "��I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:12-13). When we look to the inspired writings of the New Testament, we see the authors boldly and specifically condemning the practice based on the revelation they received from the Holy Spirit (Miller and Harrub, 2004). Thus, it is wrong to suggest that only the "��words in red" are Jesus' teachings. On the contrary, He foretold that more teaching would be done after His return to heaven due to the fact that the apostles "could not bear" all of it at the time.

Second, even if Jesus did not explicitly condemn the practice (though He actually did, as will be noted later), that certainly could not be used as evidence that He condoned the practice. For instance, where does Jesus explicitly state that bestiality is wrong? Where in the New Testament does Jesus state that polygamy is wrong? Where are the "words in red" that specifically condemn pedophilia? Are we to suppose that the Son of God condoned using crystal meth because there is not an explicit statement from Jesus' mouth that says "do not smoke crystal meth?"�� The idea that silence from Jesus on a subject means He approved of or condoned the practice cannot be substantiated.

Finally, it must be considered that Jesus did, in fact, speak against homosexuality. On numerous occasions, Jesus condemned the sins of adultery (Matthew 19:18), sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9) and fornication (Matthew 15:19). These terms describe any type of sexual intercourse that is not within the confines of a marriage ordained by God. Jesus then proceeded to define exactly what God views as a morally permissible marriage. He stated:


Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh"? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate (Matthew 19:4-6).

By defining marriage as between one male and one female, Jesus effectively condemned all other arrangements, including but not limited to one man and two women, one woman and two men, three men and one woman, three men and three women, one man and one man, one woman and one animal, etc. You can see the overwhelming logic of such. For Jesus to have to explicitly condemn every assortment of genders and numbers would be absurd. When He defined marriage between one man and one woman, He clearly showed that such an arrangement is the only one authorized by God.

Several years ago a man named Cory Moore "legally married his 2004 Cherry ES-335" Gibson guitar ("Man Marries Guitar," 2007). He said: "The day I got her, I just knew she was the one". I know it seems weird, but I really love her, like, really love her, with all my heart. I just wanted to make it official" (2007). Are we to conclude that because Jesus never specifically condemned a man marrying his guitar then the Son of God approved of such? To ask is to answer. In 2006, 41-year-old Sharon Tendler married a dolphin ("Woman Marries Dolphin," 2006). Jesus never said one word explicitly about refraining from marrying a dolphin. Does that mean His "��silence" should be viewed as approval? Not in any way.

Homosexuality is a sin. It always has been, and it always will be. The inspired New Testament writers repeatedly teach that to be the case. Jesus explained that the Holy Spirit would bring to the inspired writers information that they could not handle at the time of His departing. In addition, Jesus did explicitly define marriage as being between one man and one woman. The ruse to suggest that Jesus approves of homosexuality because He never expressly condemned it cannot be sustained logically, nor can it be defended on any type of moral grounds. The person who presumes to claim to be a Christian, and yet supports homosexuality, misunderstands the teachings of Christ and needs to repent and stop approving of a perverted, destructive practice that Jesus condemns (Matthew 19:1-9).

REFERENCES

Butt, Kyle (2003), "��Homosexuality:Sin, or Cultural Bad Habit?" Apologetics Press, http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=7&article=1239.

"Man Marries Guitar" (2007), http://www.messandnoise.com/discussions/865688.

Miller, Dave and Brad Harrub (2004), "��An Investigation of the Biblical Evidence Against Homosexuality,"�� Apologetics Press, http://www.apologeticspress.org/apPubPage.aspx?pub=1&issue=557.

Nilles, Billy (2012), "Carrie Underwood Reveals She Supports Gay Marriage," http://www.hollywoodlife.com/2012/06/11/carrie-underwood-supports-gay-marriage-christian/.

"Woman Marries Dolphin" (2006), http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/woman-marries-dolphin/2006/01/01/1136050339590.html.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright � 2012 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved.

We are happy to grant permission for items in the "America's Culture War" section to be reproduced in their entirety, as long as the following stipulations are observed: (1) Apologetics Press must be designated as the original publisher; (2) the specific Apologetics Press Web site URL must be noted; (3) the author’s name must remain attached to the materials; (4) any references, footnotes, or endnotes that accompany the article must be included with any written reproduction of the article; (5) alterations of any kind are strictly forbidden (e.g., photographs, charts, graphics, quotations, etc. must be reproduced exactly as they appear in the original); (6) serialization of written material (e.g., running an article in several parts) is permitted, as long as the whole of the material is made available, without editing, in a reasonable length of time; (7) articles, in whole or in part, may not be offered for sale or included in items offered for sale; and (8) articles may be reproduced in electronic form for posting on Web sites pending they are not edited or altered from their original content and that credit is given to Apologetics Press, including the web location from which the articles were taken.

For catalog, samples, or further information, contact:

Apologetics Press
230 Landmark Drive
Montgomery, Alabama 36117
U.S.A.
Phone (334) 272-8558

http://www.apologeticspress.org

CeriseRose was not judging you either. She outlined some Bible refrences and was telling you what to do and what you should know. Accept that you're a sinner and repent of your sins.
Remember your topic says that you're struggling with the feelings of homosexuality.
I observed that one cannot live a righteous and holy life without accepting Jesus Christ as his / her personal Lord saviour.
Let the love you feel you have be the love of God. God's love is not lust.

I see you're trading your own misinterpretation for another man's erroneous take on scripture. Maybe we should trust the spirit of the Lord then and not someone else's take on what God says. And let me assure you, the spirit has never warned me against two men or two women loving each other. Why should I trust you or some unknown sub-par scholar over my own conscience? Have you prayed to know the truth, God's will concerning these feelings, these acts and received a clear answer? I doubt it.

I have, and I know where I stand and neither I nor my friend here are going to budge from our positions regardless of toks' relentless calls to repent of a good thing, or your poor attempts at exegesis.

Mark_the_man, you misunderstand the scriptures. Do you think everything comes from God?

The Bible says that He that commiteth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose the Son of God was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil (1John 3:8).

Those feelings PaddyJ is having does not come from God. You cannot struggle with genuine love of Christ and he cannot stop having those feelings except he repent and confess his sins to God and plead the blood of Jesus Christ for cleansing and renewal of his soul.

Ephesians 5:
Be Imitators of God

1, Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2, And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us
an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3, But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,
let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4, Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5, For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man,
who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6, Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God
upon the children of disobedience.

7, Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8, For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9, (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

10, Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11, And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12, For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13, But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light:
for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

14, Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead,
and Christ shall give thee light.

15, See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17, Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18, And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19, Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20, Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

21, Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

22, Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23, For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church:
and he is the saviour of the body.

24, Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,
so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25, Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26, That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle,
or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28, So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies.
He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29, For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it,
even as the Lord the church:

30, For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife,
and they two shall be one flesh.

32, This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33, Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself;
and the wife see that she reverence her husband.


As Jesus told Simon Peter...

Luk_22:31, And the Lord said,
Simon, Simon, behold,
Satan hath desired to have you,
that he may sift you as wheat:


The devil's advocates will do his bidding.

What God has sanctified, let no man tempt to go another way.

Be strong in the Lord, dear Paddy, and the power of His Might!

The Lord, will lead you in the right path.

Toks what makes you think that I don't accept Jesus Christ as my lord and personal saviour? And CeriseRose where have I mentioned that I am in favour of gay marriage? I believe in the sanctity of marriage same as you do, all I asked of you is to accept me for the way that God made me. I am not seeking to destroy any Christian values and I do not wish to condemn anyone who is in support of gay marriage. We have all sinned yet our God is a God of mercy who would not want to condemn anyone to hell. Recently Pope Francis has shown Gods mercy to me and to all so why can't you two show that same basic Christian token of sincerity instead of asking me to repent from the way God made me. Mark has shown to be honest and accepting of me instead of cherry-picking through some scripture that would interprate to condemn me. We could all make our own interpretations of the Gospel to seek acknowledgement and confirmation of our arguments. I would rather take heed of the parts of the Gospel that show love and mercy to all.

PaddyJ, if JESUS CHRIST is in you, you wont be struggling with those feelings. He'll make you a righteous man. Perhaps not all priests fear God. There're still homosexual priests plus holiness. Cling to the Bible, study it and meditate it and you'll find out somethings you think are infallible.

Paddy, First of all, I want you to know I love you,
and I only want God's best for you.

I hope that you have read some of the cherry-picked scriptures I presented.

It is your choice Paddy.
God did not make you to desire men. You admitted you are having a struggle. The battle is in your mind.
If you want to be in good-standing with the Lord...
then set your eyes upon Jesus. Open your ears to Jesus Christ and not to men who
will condone wrong thinking.

Your Lord and Savior, Jesus says...


... "come unto me all ye that labor
and are heavy laden,
and I will give you rest".
Matthew 11:28

v29, Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me;
for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

v30, For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world:
and this is the victory that overcometh the world,
even our faith.1John 5:4



Grace, mercy, and peace,
from God our Father
and Jesus Christ our Lord, Paddy!

If Christ is in us we have no temptations? Where is that scripture? We always have temptations with us Toks, and we struggle- no matter how pure we are. Everyone sins. And who made you judge of who is righteous and who is not? Isn't that God's job? While we're cherry picking scriptures and tossing them around with reckless abandon, why don't you clarify your perceptions with Matthew 7:1-2.

Uh, are you suggesting that people should always have what they want?

In the Christian Scriptures (a.k.a. the Bible only), God makes it plain that He condemns certain behaviors. Feelings may not be chosen, but behavior is chosen, unless one is out of one's mind.

Nah, he's not a hedonist Dodo, I think it's more accepting that his desires don't make him a bad person. Although I would go so far as to say that having a same-sex partner is no crime either.

According to the Christian Scriptures (a.k.a. the Bible only), sex between two people of the same gender (a type of behavior) is indeed sin.

Homosexual feelings, however, are different. Feelings by themselves are morally neutral.

Well, the Bible has been known to be wrong from time to time. Heaven knows we don't believe all of Paul's writings.

Who do you mean by "we"?

To reject the Apostle Paul's teachings is to reject Christian doctrine.

Wrong, to reject some of Paul's ideologies is to reject the ideas of a man, which is what some of all written texts is- a man made work with man made interpolations that have nothing to do with God's inspiration.

Which, you'll take note in the seventh chapter of 1st Corinthians- Pauls admits himself that he's not speaking by revelation, but is giving his own opinion as a man.

When I reject the notion that two loving people are guilty of a crime, I'm not rejecting God, I'm rejecting a base Christian tradition in favor of the love of God that has been rejected by large portions of Christianity in favor of judging, gossiping, lying, backbiting, and a cold heart.

There must be temptation, yes! We must be tempted. The ability to win or defeat is what we need. It is through JESUS CHRIST because it abounds in Him. The word of God in you that empowers you to do exploit carries the ability to defeat temptations.

Mark, I did'nt judge anyone. God is the judge. I examine the attitude of faithfulness and unfaithfulness towards the word of God. If a priest speaks contrary to what is written in the Bible, I'll know because am led by the Spirit of God.
I am not the judge.
By their fruits you shall know them.

Mark has never ceased to be sin and devil's advocate,its not new here

When I started this thread I was wondering if there were people going through what I was going through, I never thought I would have got such a disappointing reaction from Christian people. I have been labled sinful, unrighteous, perverted, unholy, I have been told that Jesus Christ, nor the Holy Spirit is in me, I have been told many times to repent and accept Jesus, I have been both condemned and judged! I would like to point out that I grew up in Ireland when war was still raging in our streets and belive me when I say I have witnessed real sin- British soldiers murdered young innocent men in our street just for being irish, my own relatives were murdered by them as were hundreds more. The british soldiers who murdered my relatives were never brought to court and the point I'm making is after these killings I could have joined those fighting to remove the british army from ireland, I could have sought revenge, many people did go down that road but not me- I forgave those that killed my people. Therefore I ask yous how could I show forgiveness to those that destroyed our family without The Holy Spirit or Jesus being within me! I made that choice with God that I would forgive rather than seek revenge (because I had a choice on this matter) and that's my other point- now I don't have a choice no matter what yous say God made me the way I am and I cannot change my feelings and I'm not going to ask any of yous 2 change your feelings on the matter. I just hope yous understand now that I'm not the unholy, unrighteous, sinful pervert yous were making me out to be instead I'm just the good Catholic I said I was initially who sins as much as every1 else and learns from experience and yes I do struggle as a Catholic as the Church accepts me as a man with gay thoughts but is against the act of homosexuality. Even so I thank and love you all for all your comments and especially mark who was very understandingto me