Topic: Here is why Obamacare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL
Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/11/14 11:52 AM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/11/14 11:53 AM





I don't care what they call it. It's criminal. You write a bill, get it passed, then change It? What kind of logical sense is that?

I can't believe anything like that would be allowed.

Just bend over while our government screws us.

They passed it because they knew they couldn't get it back through Congress the 2nd time, so they took what they could get. It's clearly an imperfect law, but it does answer some issues. Specifically it reduces the number of uninsured Americans and helps people get affordable insurance in spite of pre-existing conditions. Of course, Republicans are completely against it, but they've go no real answers to those problems, either.

The best, most elegant solution would be simply to open up Medicare to all Americans. If they did that, then we could repeal Obamacare.


I fail to see where this would be much better. More streamlined, yes. But the best solution? No. Medicare and Medicaid programs are a huge part of our healthcare crisis. They are billing nightmares, often falling behind in payments by YEARS, and many times failing to pay their bill altogether. In little old maine, alone, these two programs failed to pay hospitals hundreds of millions of dollars. Both programs also have a ton of red tape attached.

I feel that when dealing with U.S. healthcare our goals have shifted from providing everyone access to healthcare, and gravitated towards just increasing the number of insured citizens. First goal was productive, 2nd goal is not. We must also remind ourselves, that insurance is another big part of our issue.

I know i will get flak from this, but maybe we should looking into expanding our free clinics, or the clinics in which payments are income-based. Start small (one or two hospitals), then expand. Start directing medicaid money into the system. Then start directing medicare money into the system. Allow private facilities to remain untouched. This would weed out MOUNTAINS of red tape. Perhaps the free market may actually play the role of quality control for both systems (The government and private). No forced insurance, and if done right, in increments, there shouldn't be tax hikes. Just a thought... (Note: I realize the government rarely does things the correctly)

One solution that I read about was, people pay monthly payments directly to the to the hospital or to the doctor instead of to the insurance company. Or, where I work, I have a low cost catastrophic insurance with a $2000 deductible. Routine doctor visits are paid from a health fund that we contribute to.
There are a lot of better ways to do it.


That sounds good. Eliminate Insurance altogether and just make payments to a collective medical fund that pays the doctors directly.




A nifty thing happens when doctors, who are self employed, only accept direct payment from clients. Cost are kept low. Same day doctor visit only costs around $40. Medication is affordable. A shot that would cost $35 increases to $140 when you get it from a large facility that accepts private and government insurance.

That tragedy is that this Obamacare is going to make these smaller, sliding payscale and free clinics extinct. Its essentially forcing higher costs.

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Sun 01/12/14 05:07 AM

Simply opt out....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d18_1389344281#5PE6Hao7jxR5lVHy.99

no photo
Sun 01/12/14 09:39 AM


Item not found.

Did Obama make them take it down?


InvictusV's photo
Sun 01/12/14 12:23 PM

its interesting as an argument though

it will be interesting to see how far it gets and how it is ruled upon

there is plenty of precedent for substituting the language of a bill this way,, its called a 'shell bill'

but the outcome will be interesting to watch,,,


there is a difference between a bill and the law.


there is NO provision in obamacare that allows anyone to make any changes.


no photo
Sun 01/12/14 02:43 PM


its interesting as an argument though

it will be interesting to see how far it gets and how it is ruled upon

there is plenty of precedent for substituting the language of a bill this way,, its called a 'shell bill'

but the outcome will be interesting to watch,,,


there is a difference between a bill and the law.


there is NO provision in obamacare that allows anyone to make any changes.




Apparently there does not need to be any "provisions" that allows anyone to make any changes. THEY JUST MAKE THEM.

No "provisions" needed.


Sojourning_Soul's photo
Mon 01/13/14 04:09 PM

Join The Nullify ObamaCare Rally in South Carolina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCM-GoFsOXE&feature=youtu.be

Conrad_73's photo
Mon 01/13/14 04:24 PM

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title42-section18115&num=0&edition=prelim:laughing:

§18115. Freedom not to participate in Federal health insurance programs

No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs.

(Pub. L. 111 148, title I, §1555, Mar. 23, 2010, 124 Stat. 260.)rofl

metalwing's photo
Tue 01/14/14 07:45 AM
The Supreme Court took a hard look at the first of Obama's actions of unconstitutional concern, i.e., the appointments while the Senate was in session but without the Senate's approval. This looks like the first of many, where the POTUS will get slapped down by the court.

InvictusV's photo
Tue 01/14/14 07:57 AM



its interesting as an argument though

it will be interesting to see how far it gets and how it is ruled upon

there is plenty of precedent for substituting the language of a bill this way,, its called a 'shell bill'

but the outcome will be interesting to watch,,,


there is a difference between a bill and the law.


there is NO provision in obamacare that allows anyone to make any changes.




Apparently there does not need to be any "provisions" that allows anyone to make any changes. THEY JUST MAKE THEM.

No "provisions" needed.




The Presentment clause in the constitution offers the last opportunity the president has to make changes to a bill..

Once he signs it and it becomes law he cannot make changes willy nilly unless there is a provision in the law that allows him or someone else to do so.

This LAW has no provision for revision, therefore what he is doing is unconstitutional and will be struck down.





no photo
Tue 01/14/14 08:22 AM




its interesting as an argument though

it will be interesting to see how far it gets and how it is ruled upon

there is plenty of precedent for substituting the language of a bill this way,, its called a 'shell bill'

but the outcome will be interesting to watch,,,


there is a difference between a bill and the law.


there is NO provision in obamacare that allows anyone to make any changes.




Apparently there does not need to be any "provisions" that allows anyone to make any changes. THEY JUST MAKE THEM.

No "provisions" needed.




The Presentment clause in the constitution offers the last opportunity the president has to make changes to a bill..

Once he signs it and it becomes law he cannot make changes willy nilly unless there is a provision in the law that allows him or someone else to do so.

This LAW has no provision for revision, therefore what he is doing is unconstitutional and will be struck down.




Good. I hope so.


no photo
Tue 01/14/14 03:37 PM
I was preparing my Fed Income Taxes today on TurboTax and had a big surprise. I really didn't think the ACA was going to affect me but it sure hit my wallet on my Fed tax Return.

I am sure a lot of people are going to be surprised by this also. Most people who itemize their deductions can claim deductions for medical expenses that exceed 10 percent of their adjusted gross income.

Previously, the law permitted deductions for unreimbursed expenses in excess of 7.5% of their adjusted gross income.

This little change in the tax law cost me $1,700 !!!!

NOT HAPPY! devil


willing2's photo
Tue 01/14/14 04:35 PM

I was preparing my Fed Income Taxes today on TurboTax and had a big surprise. I really didn't think the ACA was going to affect me but it sure hit my wallet on my Fed tax Return.

I am sure a lot of people are going to be surprised by this also. Most people who itemize their deductions can claim deductions for medical expenses that exceed 10 percent of their adjusted gross income.

Previously, the law permitted deductions for unreimbursed expenses in excess of 7.5% of their adjusted gross income.

This little change in the tax law cost me $1,700 !!!!

NOT HAPPY! devil



Awww.
Still singing oButtma praises?

Would you vote him in again?

metalwing's photo
Tue 01/14/14 04:55 PM

I was preparing my Fed Income Taxes today on TurboTax and had a big surprise. I really didn't think the ACA was going to affect me but it sure hit my wallet on my Fed tax Return.

I am sure a lot of people are going to be surprised by this also. Most people who itemize their deductions can claim deductions for medical expenses that exceed 10 percent of their adjusted gross income.

Previously, the law permitted deductions for unreimbursed expenses in excess of 7.5% of their adjusted gross income.

This little change in the tax law cost me $1,700 !!!!

NOT HAPPY! devil




No way! I heard you would save $2,500 at year!

no photo
Tue 01/14/14 07:36 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 01/14/14 07:37 PM
As far as income tax returns are concerned, people need to stop giving the government advance payments IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Then, at the end of the year, you will owe THEM. If you own them, and not the other way around, then they can't withhold the fine for not buying insurance.

Just pay them the taxes you owe and refuse to pay the fine for not buying health insurance.

Or find an employer who will pay you without withholding advance payments! OR put a large number of dependents on your withholding to your employer, then at the end of the year claim the correct amount. You will end up owning taxes, but why on earth should you pay your taxes IN ADVANCE??

That is just STUPID.




no photo
Tue 01/14/14 07:39 PM
Obama care is going to fail I believe.

The best advice I would give is to stop eating all this damn junk and processed crap they are selling in the grocery stores with all the sugar and GMO and aspartame and other POISONS and learn how to get healthy.

With the right attitude and diet ANY DISEASE IS CURABLE.

no photo
Tue 01/14/14 07:44 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 01/14/14 07:45 PM
The only reason employers withhold money from your paycheck in the first place is because you gave them permission when you signed their W-2. If you don't sign that, they can't take money out of your check and give it to the government.

Next time you are about to get hired for a job, tell them that because of all the corruption involved with the banking and war, and Obamacare, you do not give permission for them to take money out of your check and send it to the IRS in advance of payment. Tell them you will do your taxes at the end of the year and pay them at that time.

If they won't do that for you, then you should do contract work or become self employed.

I'm not saying don't pay taxes, even though I like that idea a lot. I'm saying that it is none of your employers business if you do or do not pay YOUR taxes.




no photo
Fri 01/17/14 08:43 AM
heath care in the UK is not free. Its payed for by people that work and earn enough to support the non productive folks. By the way its a bad system. People have to wait months for what we take for granted and there are death panels the decide who gets treated and decide who heath care is with held from. Please don't say this is not true, I lived in the UK in the service and it is true. People die in the UK waiting for treatment.

no photo
Fri 01/17/14 08:44 AM
heath care in the UK is not free. Its payed for by people that work and earn enough to support the non productive folks. By the way its a bad system. People have to wait months for what we take for granted and there are death panels the decide who gets treated and decide who heath care is with held from. Please don't say this is not true, I lived in the UK in the service and it is true. People die in the UK waiting for treatment. And it is not allowed under the conts.

no photo
Fri 01/17/14 06:07 PM

heath care in the UK is not free. Its payed for by people that work and earn enough to support the non productive folks. By the way its a bad system. People have to wait months for what we take for granted and there are death panels the decide who gets treated and decide who heath care is with held from. Please don't say this is not true, I lived in the UK in the service and it is true. People die in the UK waiting for treatment. And it is not allowed under the conts.


I believe that. This is what will eventually happen here.

The answer for people is to STOP EATING REFINED SUGAR and flour and JUNK FOOD and GMO food and start buying organic whole foods.

The food industry is trying to kill us all.

metalwing's photo
Sat 01/18/14 07:23 AM


heath care in the UK is not free. Its payed for by people that work and earn enough to support the non productive folks. By the way its a bad system. People have to wait months for what we take for granted and there are death panels the decide who gets treated and decide who heath care is with held from. Please don't say this is not true, I lived in the UK in the service and it is true. People die in the UK waiting for treatment. And it is not allowed under the conts.


I believe that. This is what will eventually happen here.

The answer for people is to STOP EATING REFINED SUGAR and flour and JUNK FOOD and GMO food and start buying organic whole foods.

The food industry is trying to kill us all.


You got that right!